Shuffling Mahjong Tiles, Snubbing Wedding Officiants, Praising Clean Plates, and More

Nick: Do you get impatient during mahjong? Do you exclude the wrong people at your wedding? Do you tell diners they did a "good job?" Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

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We can all use a little help so people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse-bouche.

Leah: Let's get in it!

Nick: So for today's amuse-bouche, I want to talk about the passeggiata.

Leah: Thank goodness, because I was hoping that's what you would bring up.

Nick: Yes! Because I have mentioned it in passing a few times in recent episodes, and in my regular life I keep, like, just bringing up, like, oh, I'm gonna go on a passeggiata tonight. And I realized a lot of people don't know what that is. And I'm just, like, tossing it out like something everybody knows and, like, maybe that's not true. So I wanted to actually go a little deeper on the passeggiata.

Leah: Go deep, Nick. Tell us!

Nick: Let's do it! So it's an Italian word, but it is not Italian per se, but it's something that Italian life makes possible. And there's other versions of this, too. In Spain, they have the paseo. In France, they have the promenade. In Greece, they have the volta. So you do see it in places that have, like, nice climates in the evenings and where there's, like, a central square and there's, like, multi-generational communities. But for the passeggiata, we're in Italy. And so picture it: the heat of the day is dying down, the sun is setting over our town, the light, it's so golden! And we leave our house and we just go for a stroll. That's what we're doing. We're just wandering through town. And the word does translate as "stroll," but it's so much more.

Leah: So much more. It's a vibe.

Nick: It is a vibe. Yes. Because it's about being seen and seeing people. It's about running into people, saying hello. It's about just connecting with your community. It's about noticing who's up and who's down. Like, "Oh, I noticed that business is closing. Interesting." Or, "Huh! They just put a new awning on. Okay. They must be doing well." Or walking by your neighbor's house and be like, "Oh, their roses look so nice now." And so it's just about, like, just seeing, being observant, just being part of the community. In Italy, this might be getting a gelato. This might just be going to the piazza and sitting for a while.

Leah: Can you spell it for us?

Nick: Yes. It is P-A-S-S-E-G-G-I-A-T-A.

Leah: Mmm!

Nick: Passeggiata. And there are some rules. I mean, I have some rules for you.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I don't think there's actually any rules for true passeggiata, but here are things I want you to know and consider when you do this. So the first rule is you cannot be in a hurry. That's the whole thing. You're not going anywhere. It's not A to B, it's literally A and we'll see what happens. And so that is the most important thing. There is no destination. There's also no devices. This is not about being on your phone. This is about not being on your phone. And you are gonna run into people most likely, and so we do want to look somewhat nice. We don't want to be, like, rolling off the couch and, like, not prepared to see people. Like, if you're prepared to be seen the way you look, then that's great. You should look like that, but know that you will be seen and you will run into people. So do that mindfully. And you gotta say hello, which is the hardest thing for me.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: You have to say hello to people, and you might be chatting with somebody and then you might be interrupted by somebody else. And, like, all of that is part of the experience. And I think why this is important is that these relationships are so important to our lives and our community. And we often think about relationships like, oh, this is a close friend. This is somebody I actually have dinner with. But also these little micro relationships are really important, too. Just the people you see in your daily life, like the barista that you always see in the morning. You might not know their name, but, like, you say hello, you're friendly, you recognize each other. And so this is also that. It's about just acknowledging the people in your community, saying hello, catching up, just having those little micro relationships.

Leah: I really like that a lot.

Nick: Yeah. And you can do it solo. You can do it with a friend, a relative. It's a catch-up. It's a gossip session. It could just be reconnecting for yourself. And in the United States, we are really bad at this for a lot of reasons.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: It did not used to be this way. I mean, Central Park was designed for the passeggiata. I mean, so much of the actual architecture and construction and why the benches are the way they are and why the paths are the way they are was about strolling.

Leah: Frederick Olmsted, baby!

Nick: Yeah, exactly. No, this was very important to that design. And now in our lives, I mean, so much of our life is just going from A to B, especially in our cars. I mean, we're not just wandering for the sake of wandering, especially in more suburban areas or in rural areas. I mean, it's—it's very rare for us to just, like, go for a walk. In the cities, I think it's a little easier. I mean, if I wanted to, like, leave my house and, like, go for a stroll, it is a little easier. I would see things, I would experience things. I would have that sort of centering moment, most likely.

Leah: Or I think people are, like, walking to exercise, and you're zoned in on your podcast or your music and you're, like, swinging your arms and you're not talking to people.

Nick: Yeah. And that's an important point. This is not meant to be exercise. This is not meant to have a point. If you're doing this to achieve something, that's inherently not what this is. The whole point is that you are doing this for the sake of just doing it, for no other purpose. The purposelessness is the essence.

Leah: Mmm! Mmm!

Nick: I know. So easier said than done, I know. But it is possible to do anywhere. If you live in a suburban area, walk the cul-de-sac. If you're in a big city, walk the streets. If you're in a rural area, walk the dirt road, I guess. What else happens in rural areas? I don't know. I hear—I hear they have dirt roads, but you could do that there.

Leah: Well, there's usually, like, a main street area with, like, a gazebo you could go down to and walk.

Nick: Gazebo, yes.

Leah: The town common.

Nick: Yes. Go to your town's piazza.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Yes. So everybody's homework is I want you to take a passeggiata and I want you to report back. How'd it go for you? What'd you do? What'd you see? How'd it go? I want to hear. I need a little feedback. Did you enjoy it? Is this something you want to do more of? So try it, report back.

Leah: This is my favorite homework so far.

Nick: [laughs] Okay, this is a good one. Yes!

Leah: Grazie.

Nick: Prego.

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Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep into the tiles.

Nick: Ooh, that's right! So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about mahjong.

Leah: I'm so excited for this because Nick got me a mahjong set.

Nick: I did, many years ago. Yes.

Leah: Because I've always discussed about how I had this visual of me in a hat. I was playing mahjong. I had a cold beverage and—I'm on my own timeline.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: It takes me a while to integrate something new. So now, years later, I'm gonna learn all the rules.

Nick: Okay. So I want to talk about mahjong, because it is definitely in the zeitgeist right now. It is definitely becoming increasingly popular. There are more groups doing it. My Instagram feed is full of mahjong content now. And so here we are. So I think the most important thing to note about mahjong is that there is not one version of the game. So there are many versions of the game. All of them are equally valid; all of them are great. You can play multiple versions on different nights of the week. Like, all of that is fine. And so we need to just acknowledge that mahjong is not a monolith.

Nick: It is also important to acknowledge where it does come from. And I do know there have been conversations out there about some people not acknowledging those roots and how that's not ideal. And sometimes this comes up when people are designing new mahjong sets. And the types of mahjong sets that are available now, I mean, there are some beautiful sets. I mean, the artistry and the design, like, there's some really great sets. But where people run into trouble is when they talk about these sets being an improvement or a reimagining or reinventing the game. And it's sort of like, uh, that is not necessarily acknowledging the roots of this game, which is China. This is a Chinese game, historically. A lot of the symbolism in the game is very rooted into Chinese tradition. It's very important to learn that symbolism, learn what this game is, learn what the bamboos are, the winds, the dragons. Like, learn why these symbols are in this game. And it's also important not to exoticize them. So I think that's just like a good etiquette baseline when we're approaching mahjong.

Nick: So let's talk about the etiquette. So before you start playing, you need to know what version am I playing? So if you're invited over for mahjong, like, my first question is, "Oh, what style do you play?" Because it's like, "Oh, come over for poker." Oh, that could be a lot of different things. And so what style do you play? Is it Singapore? Is it Hong Kong? Is it American? Is it Taiwanese? Is it Japanese? Like, what version are we doing? And then what rules do you play by? So, like, for me personally, I play Hong Kong style, mostly. I play a three-point minimum. Like, that's what I do. That's what I like. And then, you know, there's some house rules that we could discuss.

Nick: If you're playing Japanese mahjong, I find that really challenging for me. It's too hard for me. And so, like, I'm not a great player for that. American mahjong, I've actually never played. So, like, I would be so lost. But delighted that that's happening. So first question is, what type are we playing? So now we're playing mahjong and we're playing whatever style mahjong. And as a host of mahjong who has quite a few sets, most of them are vintage and sets that I really care about emotionally—I have an irrational connection to some of these sets—it really bothers me when people are eating or drinking and then are getting my tiles dirty.

Leah: Mmm!

Nick: And I don't want to be fussy. And I don't want to be that person, which is like, "Oh, can you please wash your hands?" But I am that person. I just—I acknowledge this about myself. I really don't want to play with, like, my hand-carved set that I got in Hong Kong from, like, the last two people who still hand-carve sets. I don't want to play with that set with people who are gonna be eating nachos and have oily fingers and then touch up my tiles. Because, like, I'm not gonna be—am I individually cleaning all these tiles afterwards? Like, I'm probably not. So it's just easier. Let's keep them clean. So just let's not use dirty hands and touch anybody's tiles. Even if you don't have a precious set, even if it's just, like, an Amazon set that you just picked up one day, everybody's set is precious. And so let's keep our hands clean.

Leah: That's a very great point. Thank you for bringing it up.

Nick: Right? I mean, I feel like—does this come up with card playing? This must. When people are playing poker, like, I don't want your Cheeto dust, your cheetle, all over my cards.

Leah: I think it's a good thing to just point out, because I think sometimes people are just doing things.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And they're not thinking about it. And then they're like, "Oh, of course. Why would somebody want my cheetle on their cards?"

Nick: [laughs] Exactly. And I think mahjong actually is a much more tactile game. It's part of the gameplay. You are shuffling tiles by hand. You're building the walls of tiles. Like, you're touching all of the tiles. So it's a little more tactile than, like, a card game. So I guess the touching the tiles with dirty hands thing, I think hits me a little harder. Speaking of shuffling, another one of my pet peeves—oh, I guess this is just a list of things that I don't like when I play mahjong with people. I guess so.

Leah: I think it's really good. It's really helpful for all of us to know what to be aware of.

Nick: Oh, and just by way of introduction for anybody who is maybe new to the show and doesn't know, I've been playing mahjong really forever. I mean, we played as a household since the be—I mean, there was never a time in my life I don't remember playing mahjong. I mean, there was always a mahjong—like, maybe three or four, I feel like are my first earliest memories of playing mahjong.

Leah: I'm imagining little baby Nick in diapers at a table with little mahjong tiles.

Nick: Yeah. No, for sure. What an adorable little child! So I have always played. So I'm not new to this game, and so I feel like I have a little credibility here.

Leah: Well, that's why I think it's great that you tell us what annoys you so we know not to do it.

Nick: So with shuffling, because shuffling is so important to the game, I don't like when people kind of just sort of, like, half-heartedly do it or give up. Like, I really need you to get in there. I really need your hands going clear across the table. The sound of mahjong tiles clacking is so important. That's one of the reasons why I actually don't love playing with automatic tables, because you lose that sound. And I really need to hear that sound of the tiles hitting each other. Like, this is very important to me. And so I need you to get in the shuffling. We gotta shuffle adequately. It makes for better gameplay if the tiles are truly randomized. So I really need to get it in there.

Nick: Same with, like, building the wall. I need you to do this, like, quickly, efficiently. Like, a lot of the issues I think people have playing mahjong is when one player is slow. And we do need to have grace for that person. Everybody is—or people, everybody does have a different level of gameplay. Everybody is gonna be slightly different in terms of their speed, how fast they can process the tile, how quickly they can make a decision, how quickly they can come up with a strategy. And all that is fine. You will never be playing with people who are equally matched. And so we do need to be patient. There is such a thing as taking too much time, and so we do need you to move it along. But, like, take the time you need but, like, let's not take too much time. And so I need you to build the wall. I need you to be ready. We're dealing, we're drawing, we're discarding. Like, let's go, people.

Nick: And ideally, you get to the point of playing mahjong where you can do all that and have conversation and socialize. Like, that's the ultimate. If you can be playing mahjong on one level and then we're catching up, we're gossiping, we're having a fun time on another level. Like, that is what we all want to achieve. So that annoys me. What else is on my list of things that annoy me? Hmm. Oh, good lighting. So I do need a certain brightness level for mahjong. If it's too dim, it's really hard to read the tiles. And I've played with hosts that want to create a vibe, a party vibe, you know, nice party atmosphere lighting. But there is such a thing as too dim for mahjong. So we don't want unflattering lighting. That's too far in the other direction. But we do need a certain brightness level for everybody to be able to comfortably read the tiles, see what everybody else is doing. Like, lighting? I mean, lighting is always important, but I feel like lighting for mahjong, let's make sure that's on our list.

Leah: Yeah, it seems like a lot of intricate things to see.

Nick: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's why it's so important to learn what all the tiles are and the history of them, because it's very visual. And I think that's part of the appeal of the game, too, is just visually it's, like, super attractive.

Leah: And I do love when I watch it—you know, it comes up in movies a lot. People will be playing mahjong.

Nick: Oh, sure.

Leah: And the clicking is really a part of the ...

Nick: It really is part of the thing. Yeah, it is a tactile—it's a 360 experience. I mean, we're not licking the tiles, but other than that, I mean, we're really experiencing mahjong with all our senses.

Leah: I love it!

Nick: And I guess if you wanted to lick the tiles, I mean, I guess ...

Leah: Well, that feels like that would go into your list of don't get my tiles sticky.

Nick: Well, yeah. I mean, if you got Cheeto dust on a tile and then licked it off, I would have feelings about that. That's true.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, that's feelings. That's one way to say what I might have. [laughs] So mahjong. This is mahjong. So if you've never played and are curious, I definitely encourage you to find somebody in your area who can teach you. You can definitely learn online, but it's easier and better to, like, do it with somebody live in the moment. And get a mahjong game going in your community, buy a set. I'm always happy to talk mahjong. Feel free to email me if you want suggestions for where to get sets or anything. Like, always happy to talk mahjong. Actually, I think mahjong is—next to etiquette, mahjong is, like, the thing I'm also most happy to talk about. So maybe we have to launch a mahjong podcast next.

Leah: I would also put food up there.

Nick: Oh, true. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, food's up there, but that's it. And then travel. Sure.

Leah: [laughs] Sure. And then also you like a reality show.

Nick: I also do love Love Island. That's true. Okay. Well, I mean, my top ...

Leah: Top five.

Nick: The things I—yeah. My list is long. Point being, mahjong is definitely up there. So everybody try playing and let me know how it goes.

Leah: I'm imagining putting up a sign in my building right now and being like, "Who wants to mahjong?"

Nick: Oh, you will get so much response. Yeah, you should do it. I mean, I don't know if you want strangers at your house like that, but, like, people will definitely be interested.

Leah: We could do it out by the pool.

Nick: Oh yeah, poolside mahjong? Very chic!

Leah: Très chic.

Nick: :

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Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question, I think we need a category of question which is called "I'm gonna need you to sit down."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: This question really feels like I'm gonna need you to sit down. So it's, quote, "I have a bit of a conundrum. I have just arrived home from a wedding rehearsal in which I am the officiant. The woman getting married is a daughter of a longtime friend of our family. I was asked to officiate, and I declined payment as I am on close terms with their family and have known her for at least a decade. I received a shower invitation in which I could not attend due to a death in the family. I purchased an outfit for the afternoon wedding in her approved color, drafted, written and revised remarks for a beautiful ceremony for the couple, and will be driving round trip for two hours. And my husband even took off from work to be with our daughter while I was attending the rehearsal and wedding.

Nick: "I did not receive a wedding invitation, and to my surprise, was dismissed to leave before the rehearsal dinner this evening. I asked the coordinator to kindly but discreetly confirm that I was not, in fact, included in the reception tomorrow, since it would be rude to leave early if they had paid for my dinner plate, and she stated I was not on the list. She even requested that I pre-sign the paperwork for the wedding today so the couple wouldn't be bothered by the details tomorrow. I politely but firmly declined, stating that I was not comfortable, since it could lead to my license being revoked. As I arrived today, the bride's mother inquired if I had brought my husband and daughter and breezily mentioned that I'm sure they'd be fine coming tomorrow. I was dumbfounded driving home this afternoon. I feel used and embarrassed and confused. Thoughts? Prayers? Please help me confirm I am not, in fact, alone in the wilderness here."

Leah: I don't even understand.

Nick: Oh, I understand.

Leah: I mean, I understand, but I don't even understand what I don't—help me.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: I understand.

Nick: [laughs] Exactly. That's what's the problem.

Leah: But what I don't understand is this line—it keeps getting worse. "Can you pre-sign the paperwork so we can get—so they don't have to talk to you at all afterwards?" What?

Nick: What is this?

Leah: "As I arrived today, the bride's mother inquired if I had brought my husband and daughter and breezily mentioned I'm sure they'd be fine coming tomorrow." What does that mean?

Nick: That means, like, oh, you weren't invited to the wedding. I'm sure it's fine if you come, and I'm sure your husband and daughter can come.

Leah: That's what I said.

Nick: I'm sure it's fine.

Leah: Yeah. What is that?

Nick: What is that? That's the worst, because that is telling you, oh, just crash this party you are not invited to. I'm sure they won't mind. That's awkward!

Leah: But the bride's mother is her friend, and obviously knew this was happening a long time ago.

Nick: Oh, true. Yeah, this is not the first she heard of this.

Leah: So why is she acting like that?

Nick: So breezily? I mean, my first thought was, like, oh, this is so casual, this event. But no, no, you have a wedding coordinator involved. So, like, this is not that casual. So I was like, okay, can't give you that pass. And then the coordinator. Let's just talk about this person. That person knows better. That person knows. Okay, let's say we live in a world in which I didn't know, as somebody hosting a wedding, that the officiant should be invited to the reception. Like, oh, just PS, by the way, that is the rule. Not only should the officiant be invited, but they get a guest, their spouse, their partner. Yes. That officiant goes to the reception. They're not kicked to the curb after you say "I do." And so let's say we lived in a world in which the people getting married didn't know that. The coordinator, the wedding coordinator knows that.

Leah: Well, they—let me add to that, they invited her to the bridal shower.

Nick: Right? Yeah. So, like, oh, we'll invite you to the thing where you're gonna give us presents.

Leah: Yeah, please feel free to come give us presents.

Nick: Sure. Yeah. No, we want your loot, but we don't want to buy you dinner.

Leah: Also, if, as you were saying, this wedding couple lived in a world where they didn't know that you invite the officiant ...

Nick: Right. Let's say maybe you didn't know that. Okay.

Leah: Then when the officiant, our lovely letter-writer, turned down the money for it, was like, "Oh no, this is not a job, this is a family thing," that's when they should have been like, "Oh, they're seeing us as a family friend, maybe they should be at the wedding, too."

Nick: Yeah, that was an opportunity to have a little reflection. Or even, like, when I asked the coordinator kindly and discreetly, like, "Hey, like, am I invited to the reception tomorrow?" That was their opportunity to be like, "Oh my gosh, we forgot to invite them. Or we didn't mention it." Or like, oh, a mistake. Or we actually didn't want them to come but, like, since they asked, like, okay, I guess we can, like, squeeze in an extra seat for them. Like, that was their opportunity to be like, "No, of course you're coming." The answer there was definitely not like, "Oh no, you're not invited. And also pre-sign everything."

Leah: What is up? I wonder, like, is the wedding coordinator acting at the behest of the bride and groom, or is this wedding coordinator just ...

Nick: I mean ...

Leah: ... rabid?

Nick: The wedding coordinator asked the hosts—I believe that to be true—got the answer back. And what that wedding coordinator should have done was go to the host and be like, "You know you can't do that!"

Leah: Yes.

Nick: You can't do that. They should have pushed back on that. They should not have relayed the message that the officiant is not invited. That's why the wedding coordinator is not off the hook here. I mean, nobody's off the hook.

Leah: Nobody's off the hook. Nobody.

Nick: The mother of the bride who's an old family friend, highly problematic, because she should have also gone to bat for her friend and did not.

Leah: Well, that's why this line, the breezily was like, "Oh, just bring them," you know? What?

Nick: Yeah, this is just cost cutting in the worst way. I mean, I get that weddings are expensive and we want to cut costs. This is not how it's done.

Leah: I mean, our letter-writer got an outfit in the colors of the wedding.

Nick: Yeah. And you know this is not a color this person normally wears. [laughs]

Leah: Yeah, they're never colors that anybody wears.

Nick: Yeah, they had to go and buy something new for this, so this is definitely not a color we already had in our wardrobe.

Leah: Also, they turned it down financially. They were like, "I'm doing this out of friendship."

Nick: Which was the right move because, like, obviously this is my gift to the couple.

Leah: Yeah, that's my gift to the couple.

Nick: I get to celebrate with you all.

Leah: Yes, it's a beautiful thing.

Nick: I'm not hired help for the day.

Leah: Yes, I'm celebrating with you. That's what that is. That's—and if they had missed all of the signs, that was where we would—should have gotten it.

Nick: So where do we go from here? I mean, I would be very tempted to be like, "Oh, I'm not invited" I guess actually maybe something's come up. Maybe I can't officiate." Obviously you can't do that, but I'd be so tempted to pull the plug.

Leah: I just want to say to our letter-writer really quickly, because of this line, "I felt used and embarrassed and confused. Thoughts? Prayers? Please help me confirm I am not, in fact, alone in the wilderness here." This is something—and we've discussed it before, but it's so important to me, because I think it's a feeling that a lot of us feel. We're embarrassed. We feel embarrassed. No, it is not you.

Nick: It is not.

Leah: You are lovely.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: You have gone above and beyond. You got the colors. Your husband took off work so you could be there. You turned down the money. You know, you're doing it to celebrate with family friends. They should be embarrassed.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Not you. Not you.

Nick: They should be so embarrassed. This is embarrassing.

Leah: It's embarrassing. I get why you would be confused. I'm confused!

Nick: I'm very confused. And I can hear somebody in our audience saying, like, "Well, she didn't get an invitation in the mail. They didn't send her an invitation." No, you're the officiant. You are in a different category of guest. You are actually VIP guest. You get, like, the good table. You are so VIP that you're beyond invitation. And it's also, you don't have to be invited because everybody knows you go to the reception. You are part of this entire experience. That's the deal.

Leah: Sorry, my face is, like, falling off my face.

Nick: So I think what you need to do is officiate beautifully. I think you need to really rock it—which I'm sure you will do. I am not worried about that. And I think you sign the papers and I think you slip out. I mean, I would never want to be a guest at a party I'm not welcome at. And even if I'm breezily invited, I wouldn't feel totally welcome. Like, I would feel like I was an imposition at this point. So I would go home, go back to your family. And if somebody asks, I think you could definitely say, like, "Oh, unfortunately I was not on the guest list, so I'm gonna have to be taking off now, but hope you have a great rest of your night."

Leah: And I think you should feel really proud of yourself for not letting them bully you into signing the papers early.

Nick: Oh yeah. Oh, that's—that's such a no. And I was thinking, like, oh, what stings the most? Like, a lot stings here, but I think what stings is you weren't being seen and they didn't count you. You weren't being counted. You weren't part of the mix. You weren't part of the conversation. You were just excluded. Like, it's—you didn't matter. And I think that I feel like is what bothers me the most.

Leah: I'll tell you what bothers me the most.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: If I'm officiating for my good friend's kids ...

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: And then I realize I'm not—it seems like I'm not invited. It feels like I'm being dismissed. I say, "Can you double check on that?"

Nick: Which we did.

Leah: I want you, either the mother or the kid and the son to come over and to my face explain to me why I wasn't invited, because we have history. We have a relationship. I deserve to have it explained to me to my face, not this third-party person who is just treating me like I work there.

Nick: Well, we did get that, and we got a, "I'm sure it'll be fine."

Leah: No, that was a dismissive, that wasn't a real conversation.

Nick: Yeah. No, I don't love any of that. Yeah. So sorry this happened. This is not cool.

Leah: I want to add to what Nick said. I love you go, you do a great job as a—of course you do. You're fabulous. And then you go home, and then I think you should have a party with your husband and kid and do something really special, the three of you.

Nick: Yes! Yeah.

Leah: And wear whatever clothes you want to wear that are fun clothes.

Nick: And if you wanted to ask for a wedding cake to go before they've cut the cake, I feel like this is an exception to that rule. I think go ahead, ask for some cake to go.

Leah: Ask for some cake to go.

Nick: You know what? As long as we're all committing etiquette crimes, toss that into the mix. At least get cake.

Leah: And then I don't know if I would really ever talk to these people again.

Nick: Oh, I would absolutely rethink my entire relationship with this family. Hundred percent. Because I was under the impression that we were friends and we had a relationship. And this says to me, oh, I have misunderstood the nature of our relationship. I am performing a service for you. I am not a family friend. Okay. Clarified. Thank you so much.

Leah: Yeah, I would just—I wouldn't be rude, but I would just be cut off.

Nick: Yeah. I don't think any conversation's necessary. I think we just reseat them in our theater.

Leah: Reseated!

Nick: And that's the end of that. Yeah. I mean, definitely they're in the box office or out on the street, but yeah, we're definitely taking them out of the orchestra, which is where we thought we were in their theater and clearly not. So yeah, sometimes you find out the hard way. So our next question is, quote, "I recently went to a restaurant and finished my meal. When the server picked up my plate, he said, 'Good job!' Why did this irritate me so much? Am I wrong to think that this comment was unnecessary?"

Leah: What's so funny is that I could see myself on both sides of this. If somebody said "Good job" to me, I'd be like, "What?" But then I sometimes remember when I was a server, and just the wrong thing would come out of my mouth, and I would—I would walk away thinking, you need to go back and tell them that you are an insane person.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I could definitely see that sometimes you're just trying to fill space, and so servers just say something just to say something and aren't necessarily thinking too hard about it. And maybe it's best not to read into it.

Leah: Also, you know, when you think hard about it is when you get home and you're laying down and trying to go to sleep at night and you go, "Why did I say—why did I say 'Good job?' That's not my child. It's not like, it's not like my dog." Like, I say "good job" to my dog. You know what I mean?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: It just came out of my mouth.

Nick: And that's exactly why, dear letter-writer, this bothers you because you are not a child, and it is something you might say to a child. It is not something you say to an adult. And also good job at what? Getting all that food into your face?

Leah: [laughs] That's exactly what they're saying. They're saying good job for eating your food.

Nick: And it also dovetails with the idea of, like, oh, we don't want to comment on what people are eating. And saying good job is a little bit of a performance evaluation. How good of a job did you do at the eating? Okay, I'm evaluating. You did a good job. And it's like, I don't want—I don't want you looking that hard at what I've eaten.

Leah: Well, it feels patronizing.

Nick: It is patronizing, yes. [laughs] And I guess it's sort of folksy. And so maybe it's just, like, folksy but, like, there are other ways. There's other ways to do this.

Leah: I have to imagine, even though in my recent interactions with people, I know that that's not true, but I do like to imagine that it was meant as folksy. And ...

Nick: I think it's folksy. Yes.

Leah: Also, I like to imagine that that person just has what I have, that sometimes the words are not—they come out without permission. And that person was at home lying in bed going, "Why would I say that? I—that's so silly."

Nick: I guess the only time when "Good job" works is if it's one of those challenge meals. So when it's like, oh, can you eat the 64-ounce steak in under an hour? Then I guess a "Good job." This is when we need this.

Leah: I also—some of those meals that you cook yourself and it's like you making the soup and you're doing the thing. I feel like if I'd never done it before and the waiter knew that I'd never done it.

Nick: Oh ...

Leah: And then at the end I knocked it out of the park and they were like, "You did a really good job with this." I might be able to take that okay.

Nick: I don't love that. I see why you might enjoy, like, the validation of a job well done being a new person to that thing. But ...

Leah: But it also is in their tone. If they were like, "You really nailed it."

Nick: Tone is key. Yeah, if it's not patronizing, then that becomes a different thing, for sure.

Leah: But otherwise, I mean, it's legitimately what I say to my dogs after they clean their bowls.

Nick: [laughs] Right? So servers, if you need another line to use, I like just a, "May I?" That's it. "May I?" And they'll be like, "Yes." And we're not discussing anything other than, "May I take this plate?" "Yes, you may."

Leah: What I hate is when people pull the plate and you ate the whole thing and they go, "Looks like you hated it."

Nick: Oh, that—that I think is worse than "Good job."

Leah: It feels worse to me because in "Good job," I got a compliment at least.

Nick: I mean, the "Looks like you hate it" makes me have to participate in this conversation.

Leah: But now it's like, I get it. I licked the plate. I'm a total monster. I get it.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, I don't like that at all. Yeah. I would much rather a "Good job" than a "Looks like you hate it." Because "Good job," I don't have to respond to that. Whereas "Looks like you hated it," I have to make eye contact with you. I have to say something like, "Sure did."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I mean, I have to do something. I can't just let that sit. So you have now recruited me into this conversation and I'm not interested.

Leah: Yeah, I do—I'm just—I would—I get why it's irritating. I would just go in and believing they meant—they were just trying to say something like "You nailed it." And it just came out weird.

Nick: "You nailed it." Yeah. "Nailed it. No notes."

Leah: "No notes. No notes."

Nick: Actually, if I was in Los Angeles and all the waiters were actors and somebody was like, "Great job, no notes," I actually would appreciate that.

Leah: That one would be fun. [laughs]

Nick: So okay.

Leah: You could also say anything if you land the tone.

Nick: I guess that's really what it comes down to. If you land the tone. Yeah, because I could even say, "May I," in a way that felt like, "Ugh, like, may I?"

Leah: "May I, or are you gonna hold onto that with a death grip because you won't stop eating?"

Nick: "Is there one more drop that you haven't quite gotten there, you animal? Yeah.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So you out there, do you want us to do a good job with your question? Let us know! Let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

---

Nick: And we're back! And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: Oh, Nick.

Nick: Okay. This sounds like a—kind of sounds like a repent.

Leah: It's gonna be a vent.

Nick: Oh, okay. I guess your vent tone and your repent tone are a little similar.

Leah: That could be true. [laughs]

Nick: So what has happened?

Leah: All right, so I was on an 11-hour flight.

Nick: That's a lot of hours.

Leah: Which once you get into the double digits, it feels like a chunk of time.

Nick: That is true. I feel like any flight over eight becomes psychologically very different.

Leah: Yeah, that's—you're like, that's it. It's longer than a workday.

Nick: Okay, so 11 hours.

Leah: I have a lovely seat.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: Aisle seat. I love an aisle. Nick knows my obsession. I have—I actually have to be on an aisle. The woman who's directly in front of me, we're boarding at the same time, so I end up boarding at the exact same time with a woman who's in front of me. We're both going into the overhead compartments at the same time. I knew immediately there was gonna be a problem.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: Just by her ...

Nick: She had a vibe.

Leah: She had a vibe.

Nick: She had a, "I'm gonna be a problem on this flight."

Leah: Other than the way she was putting things into the overhead, everything—everybody else's stuff was falling out. And you're like, "Uh-oh, here we go."

Nick: Okay. Okay.

Leah: I said—I'm pleasant. "Oh, hi!" You know what I mean? Because we're, like, right in each other's space. It's a long flight. Who knows?

Nick: Yeah, who knows?

Leah: I would say same height and build as me. Like, this is not, like, a 6'5" person, you know?

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I just want to give that so people aren't like, "Maybe she was really tall." I sit down, she sits down, everybody's doing their thing. Plane starts to take off. We are not through takeoff yet.

Nick: Sure. Okay, we're climbing.

Leah: We're climbing. That chair gets jammed back so hard.

Nick: Oh, waste no time. Okay.

Leah: I mean, almost into my chin. I actually made a noise because I was so shocked it came back so hard.

Nick: Well, during takeoff, I would think, like, "Oh, is the seat broken?"

Leah: Is it broken? Did something happen? Why did it ...

Nick: Did the latch come undone?

Leah: Yes, with such an alarming speed.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I think, okay, this is where we're at. Whatever. I look behind me. The person behind me is a very tall man. His knees are already into the thing, you know?

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I really don't want to take—I don't want to do to him what's been done to me.

Nick: Yeah. Understood. And that's very courteous.

Leah: So I think in my head, I go, it's 11 hours. Maybe she's just real tired, you know? Food comes around.

Nick: Ah.

Leah: She doesn't pick up her seat. I can't put my food into the thing.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: Because it slides off. It's at such a bad angle.

Nick: Wow. Okay.

Leah: So then she gets up to use the restroom and she puts it back up. So I was like, oh, delight. So I put my food on the tray. She comes back, sits down, slams it back again. My food goes flying.

Nick: Oh, really? Oh, wow!

Leah: I actually verbally made loud noises, because I wasn't ready for it.

Nick: Who could be?

Leah: Who could be? Then she never put the seat up again the whole 11 hours.

Nick: Wow! Oh, the worst!

Leah: Literally the worst.

Nick: Yeah. People like this, what is wrong?

Leah: I could barely get out to use the restroom because she was jacked so far back.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, we could certainly debate are you allowed to recline your seat? Okay. That is a conversation to be had. But if you are going to do it, there are rules. And one of the rules is not during meal service. And one of the other rules is do it slowly when you're gonna do it.

Leah: Yeah, you don't jack it back because also if I'd had my laptop back there and she had done that ...

Nick: Oh, snapped in half.

Leah: Would've snapped it in half.

Nick: Absolutely, yeah. And you were very nice to the person behind you. And so ...

Leah: Yeah, I'm not gonna behave that way.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, 11 hours of that, though.

Leah: I was gonna say I'm not an animal but, like, animals are significantly better than that. It was just so selfish. Like, you also don't put your seat back during takeoff. You wait until we're at cruising altitude, everybody's calmed down. You don't slam it back. I mean, just the whole thing was unbelievable.

Nick: Yeah. And you want to be like, oh, is this their first time flying? But, like, it was not.

Leah: It was clearly not. Also, she knew I had food when she came back. She, like, stood next to me, you know? She just didn't care.

Nick: Well, everybody did. It was meal service time.

Leah: Yeah. She just literally didn't care.

Nick: That's it. That's the crime. She literally did not care.

Leah: She doesn't care. And I'm not—I honestly don't have it in me to get into a thing with somebody like that.

Nick: Well, on a long flight like that, I mean, you could do the polite-yet-direct, like, "Oh, excuse me. Would you mind if" conversation. But your mileage may vary. And with somebody like that, like, oh, I don't know how that conversation would go. And could it escalate?

Leah: It feels like it could escalate with somebody like her.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Like, she's just all, "I'm allowed to put my seat back. Da da da. Feel free to move." You know, I just—and I can't, I'm exhausted. It's 11 hours, I've been traveling. I don't have it.

Nick: Well, for me, I would like to repent.

Leah: What?

Nick: And so—I know, I know. Well, you know, I'm anticipating episode 400 in which we will do some survey of our statistics. And so I've tried to get a few in there. And so I am in New York City and I am standing in front of my building. And I've ordered a car to come using an app service. And so the car is coming down the block. Ooh, okay. Car's coming down the block. And then car rolls up. And so I step up to the car and open the back door. And to say that I startled this person so hard, they screamed, I screamed. Nobody was ready for this. Because the windows were so murdered out, you couldn't see in the car. And I guess I just assumed, oh, this car pulling up in front of my building is for me, which was true, but also would be empty, which was not true. Somebody else, their destination was my building.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: And so—so, like, it was so alarming. It was so alarming. And so once everybody, like, settled down for a moment, all I said was, like, "Oh golly, these windows are so tinted. So sorry, I didn't see inside." [laughs]

Leah: I mean, what else could you say?

Nick: That was the best I could do. I mean, what else is there to say? And then I, like, step to the side and, like, they exit the car and they do, you know, their thing, wrapping up their ride. And then I get in and, like, it's fine. I want to vent a little bit about windows that are too tinted, though, because I feel like, was this all my fault? Like, how well should I be ...

Leah: I love Nick's repentance. Was this all my fault? I'm gonna give you a half a repent for this one.

Nick: Was there anyone else who had responsibility here? I feel like the tint level of these windows was quite high. Very high. Maybe—maybe illegal. Is there a limit on how dark you can tint?

Leah: I was gonna say that I thought that tinted windows at a certain point were illegal.

Nick: Definitely front windows. There is definitely a rule about that. Back windows? I don't know what the rules are. Whatever it was, these are pretty black. Could not see inside. But also, what am I supposed to do? Do I wait a beat? How long do I wait before I get into a car? Like, what should I have done? Because I can't see inside. And it was my car. Like, how long does one wait before one opens the door? Does one knock like it's a restroom? That's weird!

Leah: I don't know if I'm gonna allow this as a repent because really it's working its way around to be a vent.

Nick: [laughs] Well, okay. Fine, it's a vent. What am I supposed to do, though?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Like, what would be the move? Or do we just accept that this is exceedingly rare? Like, I take a lot of cars in New York City. There's a lot of comings and goings. I've not actually experienced this where, like, my Uber was arriving with somebody else at my destination.

Leah: Yeah, that's so rare. So rare.

Nick: Right? I mean, what are the chances that it would be that?

Leah: Well, they should have let you know in the app. There should be a place where the app where it's like a person's getting dropped off where you're getting picked up.

Nick: Oh! Oh, that's interesting. The app should have told me.

Leah: Because they'll let you know if the person is record—like, they'll let you know if the driver has recording devices.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: They'll let you know if your driver is hard of hearing.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: They should let you know if there's somebody in the back of the car.

Nick: Somebody will be exiting.

Leah: So give them a moment.

Nick: Okay. Okay, I like that. Okay. So this is a vent. This does not exist as a feature and it should. So this is the vent.

Leah: There it is!

Nick: Settled. All right. I will adjust the scores.

Leah: You're not gonna remember and it's gonna slip through.

Nick: [laughs] Oh well.

---

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: Well, I learned how to spell passeggiata.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Am I saying that correctly? Yes.

Nick: Passeggiata, yes.

Leah: Because you have said it and I, you know, get the vibe of what it is and I know what a paseo is. So I got it, but I would not have known how to spell it. And I do like all the clarifications of the vibe.

Nick: It's all about the vibe. And I learned that you're gonna be having a poolside mahjong party soon.

Leah: It's coming.

Nick: Can't wait. Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: You know what, Nick? Let me just say something really quick about the passeggiata. I feel like I had a lot of passeggiatas in New York.

Nick: Sure. Oh yeah. It lends itself.

Leah: And I knew my people, you know?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I saw the same people at my corner store, you know, and we passeggiata like nobody's biz in Bethel, Maine. You know what I mean? We call it the Bethel 500. It's up and down, you know?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And where I am right now in Los Angeles, it's not really—it's not passeggiata, because it's—I could walk around and enjoy and take in and, oh, what's going on and not have a goal of I'm going here and coming back. But I'm not checking in on people. I'm not seeing new things, because things change so much. So it's a little bit of a different vibe. It's a bit of a hustle even if you're out for a stroll.

Nick: Yeah. And it just may be harder to do there, so you're gonna have to really make an effort to try to get that in somehow, some way, some form.

Leah: Well, I think that's my goal for my—because I was trying to think of what's the vibe for the next neighborhood I want to move into.

Nick: Something that is passeggiata worthy.

Leah: Yeah, somewhere where I can passeggiata, baby.

Nick: [laughs] Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He wouldn't. He's tired of it.

Nick: [laughs] I will never get tired of writing you notes. In fact, that is your homework this week. This is your personal invitation to send me a note. If you have never written in, if you've never put pen to paper, this is your personal invitation to send me a note. Send it to my PO box. I want to see it. I want to experience it. I will write you back. And so please send me some mail. This is your homework. It is not optional.

Leah: No, it's true. Nick loves messages and notes and cards.

Nick: I really do. It is not an act. It is truly who I am at my core. And I feel like if everybody experiences it, you will discover the joys that I've discovered. And so I want that for everybody.

Leah: You just reminded me I haven't been to my PO box in months.

Nick: Think of all the correspondence that might be in there!

Leah: That's why I don't go!

Nick: [laughs] And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

---

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: Oh, I get so tense for the 30 seconds because you know I'm gonna go over. I don't know if our Wolves family knows this. I go to a lot of urgent cares.

Nick: [laughs] It's true.

Leah: When I get, like, really worked up, I get—I get hives, you know? I've got back problems, you know, and I run to an urgent care. So I've experienced a lot of them.

Nick: You are a connoisseur.

Leah: I'm pretty sure that I did a shout out to an urgent care in New York.

Nick: Oh, I'm sure.

Leah: They were my favorite. But I haven't had a favorite in Los Angeles, and I now have a favorite. And this is not an ad. I really want to say thank you to Exer Urgent Care, who I've now visited twice.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Under duress. I like to wait as long as possible until I'm like, "This may be an emergency." And both times, everybody, so lovely, so helpful, so calming, so good with giving information. I mean, great parking, everything a girl needs at an urgent care.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So I just want to say thank you to very friendly medical staff. Thank you.

Nick: And for me, I want to say thank you to this notary I just saw. So I am many things, and one of the things I am is a notary public. I am a notary. And as a notary, when I need to renew my license, I have to get that paperwork notarized.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And one of the first rules about being a notary is that you are not allowed to notarize your own stuff.

Leah: Yeah, that seems very illegal.

Nick: That's, like, one of the first things they teach you at notary school. Can't notarize your own stuff. And so I got to go to a notary. And so I went to my local notary, and I did a whole paperwork thing. And there is a fee in New York, which is $2. And so I had a $2 bill for them and they're like, "No need. No charge for today. Professional courtesy."

Leah: Oh!

Nick: And I thought that is so nice, because obviously it's not about the $2. It's about, like, oh, I see you. I see you as a peer. And a little professional courtesy.

Leah: A little notary to notary.

Nick: A little notary to notary love, which I thought there should be more of that. So thank you!

Leah: I love it!

Nick: Yeah. So if you need anything notarized, let me know.

Leah: I don't know if I knew that, like, the fact that you were a notary, but in my heart I knew it.

Nick: Oh, for sure.

Leah: For sure.

Nick: I mean, if you were asked the question, "Is Nick a notary?" You would've said yes.

Leah: I would. And I wouldn't have to hesitate. I mean, it would just ...

Nick: Yes. Oh no. If there's a certification I can get, I will absolutely get it. Do I have my rescue diver certification from PADI? Yes. Do I have a motorcycle license? Sure do. Do I have my boating certificate from New York State? Yeah. I'm ready to boat. Yeah. No, if there's something I can get a certificate for or a license, I will absolutely do it. Even if it's not something I were to do. You think I'm gonna ride a motorcycle? I'm so accident prone. Of course I'm not. But I want to have that little M on my driver's license.

Leah: I love this so much.

Nick: [laughs] So thank you to the notary. Really appreciate it.