Very Special 200th Episode Extravaganza

Nick: It's our 200th episode.

Leah: That's 200 episodes of "I mean ..."

Nick: What is wrong with people?

Leah: I can't even!

Nick: I don't care for that.

Leah: For sure rude.

Nick: Let's call her Lisa.

Leah: I don't even know what's happening right now.

Nick: What do we even do with this?

Leah: That grinds my gears.

Nick: Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our 200th episode.

Leah: 200 episodes, Nick!

Nick: I mean, unbelievable. Like, I thought 100 was wild. 200? I mean ...

Leah: I recall a time where you were like, "We're tapping out at 100."

Nick: [laughs] I remember a time when I was like, "We're tapping out at 30. "

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. I mean, 200 episodes. It's like, how time has flown!

Leah: How time has flown.

Nick: And I will say I'm a little disappointed that we actually have not solved all the world's etiquette problems and we are still relevant.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah, it definitely seems it keeps popping up.

Nick: Right? Like, I really thought we were gonna solve it all and that we were not gonna need to be at 200 episodes.

Leah: I wasn't worried.

Nick: So for today's very special 200th episode, we wanted to go down memory lane and share some of our most memorable favorite segments with you.

Leah: From between 100 to 200.

Nick: Right. Since our last milestone, what did we love from the last 100 episodes?

Leah: And I feel like it was hard to pick.

Nick: It was definitely hard because there's so much. There is so much to choose from, But I think the ones we picked actually were the ones that we got the most feedback from you all. These are the ones that I think we got more DMs, more emails, more voicemails from you all with comments. And so for whatever reason, I think all of these segments really resonated.

Leah: I would like to say I'm hopeful that one day we won't be needed.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, I would love to be obsolete. That's my dream.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Absolutely.

Leah: Because I do believe in people. But I have seen some people not saying thank you, holding the door. So ...

Nick: Yeah, I want to be a fax machine. I want to be a dot matrix printer. Yeah. No, I'm very interested in being no longer necessary.

Leah: But it seems there's a few things happening still.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think maybe we have a few more episodes left.

Leah: We may have another hundred to go.

Nick: Yeah, or a thousand.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Or a couple thousand. Yeah. [laughs]

Leah: I just visualized us, like, 50 years later.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Both of us with mustaches being like, "And today ..."

Nick: Yeah. "It looks like we're still confused about this thing." So ...

Leah: And we're still like, "Would you like to vent or repent?" And it's for sure a vent.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, who are we kidding? So for the amuse-bouche this episode, we went through the archives—and there was a lot to choose from.

Leah: I had trouble picking this one because I love a Nick histoire. I would listen to an entire series book on tape.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. No, this is a fun one because there's a little history. There's also a Judith Martin cameo, which I love. She's my personal etiquette hero. And then there's also you trying to push the boundaries.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Which ...

Leah: What?

Nick: I always like an amuse bouche where you're really trying to just poke around the edges to see are there any holes, any loopholes? How far can you take something?

Leah: That doesn't sound like me at all.

Nick: You definitely try.

Leah: I don't recognize myself in that.

Nick: [laughs] So for our amuse bouche, we want to bring you back to ice cream sodas.

Leah: And who doesn't want to be brought back to an ice cream soda? Mmm!

Nick: So for today's amuse-bouche, I want to talk about ice cream sodas!

Leah: Oh!

Nick: Sometimes called ice cream floats.

Leah: I can't even tell you what a big fan I am. And also, my mother is a huge fan. And so fan-girling.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, what's not to like? And so for anybody out there who doesn't know what this is, and I guess there are people out there, it's basically ice cream and there's gonna be something carbonated, so either seltzer water or maybe a soda. And there could be some syrup in there, too. And there could be some whipped cream, could be a cherry on top. But it's a delightful beverage.

Leah: And it's usually in, like, a nice glass that's kind of chilled, or unless it's a takeaway cup. Either way, it has a fun straw.

Nick: So all right, you like some ice cream sodas. And the question today is: what do you do about those last little sips in the bottom of the glass? You got a straw, you got some sips on the bottom of the glass. What do we do about it?

Leah: Where am I? Am I alone in my car?

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Am I in the middle of an A&W?

Nick: Well, if you're alone in your car, as we know, etiquette does not care what you do when you're alone. So you do whatever you want to do in your car.

Leah: Well, just on a moral—a moral side of this ...

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: I believe it's morally wrong to leave any ice cream.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So you're gonna have to get it.

Nick: Okay. [laughs]

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So slurping? Are you making a lot of noise? What's happening?

Leah: I don't think I'm gonna make a lot of noise, but I'm gonna either gonna pick the cup up all the way and let it slowly roll down into my mouth.

Nick: Oh! Okay, we're gonna take the straw out.

Leah: Gonna take the straw out and we're gonna go in.

Nick: I see. Okay.

Leah: Which is probably wrong, but it would be more wrong to leave any ice cream. Emotionally.

Nick: So first, let's turn to the etiquette greats.

Leah: [laughs]*

Nick: Emily Post, 1922. She did not weigh in on this. And it's not that this did not exist in 1922, because I think the ice cream float was invented in the late 1800s. And the story goes that it was at the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia, and they were having a big, like, celebration. And there was all these vendors all around. And at the time, there was a very popular beverage which was cream and seltzer and syrup together. And one of these vendors at this celebration ran out of cream, so he's like, "All right. Well, I guess I'll use ice cream." And he did, and everybody was like, "Yes! This is it! This is it!"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And so it became a total thing. But it wasn't until we got into the 1920s, which is when Emily Post was writing this book, that this really started to take off. And 1922—same year she wrote her book—is when some guy in Walgreens decided to add malt powder, and then the malted was invented. So Emily Post? We'll give her a pass that maybe this wasn't popular enough for her to write about, but it's also not something you would eat at a formal dinner party, so she was also probably not concerned with it. So she will not be helpful here. Now, Leah, how do you feel about Judith Martin, Miss Manners? What's your feeling? She gonna be cool? She's not gonna be cool? What do you think?

Leah: My gut's telling me she's not gonna be cool.

Nick: [laughs] So get ready for this. Buckle up. Miss Manners, she calls the ice cream soda one of the quote, "Great gastronomical treats of the American cuisine." And has thus given ice cream soda quote, "A unique privilege." Get ready for this. Quote, "Miss Manners stands by a rule she made in her comparative youth that everyone is allowed three—but no more—noisy slurps at the end of an ice cream concoction, simply because it is a crime to let that good stuff go to waste. A more decorous way of getting the last drop is to use the straw as a pipette, and allow its contents to dribble back into the spoon."

Leah: I have never been so delighted to be so wrong.

Nick: Sometimes Miss Manners surprises you.

Leah: I'm so glad.

Nick: Yeah!

Leah: I mean ...

Nick: When I came across this, I was like, "What? What? This is not expected at all."

Leah: And I mean, if you could see me at home, I'm sort of glowing.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I believe in the power of an ice cream soda to bring us all together. I also just want to say really quick that I'm gonna steal that, and when I'm spooning things into my face with my straw—which I do—I'm gonna say to people, "I'm using it as a pipette." [laughs]

Nick: There you go. Wonderful! So she writes this and people were like, "Wait, what? Really?" So then somebody followed up and asked if two people are sharing an ice cream soda, is it three slurps per soda or per person?

Leah: I mean, these are great questions.

Nick: And so Miss Manners says that sharing a soda is a quote, "Preteen version of a trial marriage." And so here's what she says. Each person can take one slurp back and forth, and then the third slurp is quote, "Taken by the person who values that combination of syrup, melted ice cream and soda more than the romance at the other end of the straw. Miss Manners advises the young that many love affairs eventually prove disappointing, but ice cream sodas will never let you down."

Leah: [laughs] I mean, truer words! Truer words!

Nick: She is into it!

Leah: Truer words have never been spoken.

Nick: She is so into it. It is unbelievable. I've never seen so much enthusiasm about a food coming from Miss Manners than the ice cream soda. Yeah. Isn't that wild?

Leah: I mean, this really puts her in a whole new light in my mind.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Because ice cream never lets you down. That's true.

Nick: Yeah. No, she—she is very wise. If she's nothing else, she's very wise.

Leah: Wow! Wow!

Nick: So, ice cream soda, you have Miss Manners' permission to do three slurps—no more. But you do have permission for three slurps.

Leah: You could just make those slurps extra long.

Nick: All right, don't push it. All right? Miss Manners was being very generous here. Let's not take advantage.

Leah: [laughs] And now I want one so bad so I could just slurp the end. Not that I wasn't doing it anyway. But so nice.

Nick: Yeah, I was gonna say now you have permission.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and on the water.

Nick: So for our deep dive, our question of etiquette, there was a lot to choose from.

Leah: There was.

Nick: But this one is great because it might have the highest ratio of puns.

Leah: That's why I love it because I feel like I'm constantly trying to get puns in, Nick's constantly fighting against it. And I feel like at the end you flowed with me.

Nick: [laughs] Oh, okay. I see what you did there. I also love this one because I learned something very important about vampires. I was unaware of this detail, and I think it might save my life.

Leah: [laughs] Oh, I'm glad I brought it up then.

Nick: Right? Yeah.

Leah: I also love this one because it is forever stuck in my memory that your friend doesn't like it when people wave to them on boats.

Nick: Oh, yeah. No waving. Uh-uh. It's a slippery slope towards further human relationships and friendships. [laughs] So ...

Leah: Let's dive in it!

Nick: Ooh.

Leah: Because you're on a boat. Get it? [laughs]

Nick: Oh, we get it. Yeah, no we get it.

Leah: I know we did. I just like to say it again.

Nick: And we're back and now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Very deep. We're going to float this right by ya.

Nick: Oh, no. So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about boats.

Leah: Do you catch our adrift? [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Oh!

Leah: I'll stop. I'll stop.

Nick: Oh. Oh. Don't make promises you can't keep, Leah. So for me, boats are like weekend houses. You don't want one, you just want friends with one.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So I have lots of friends with boats, which is great. You know, it's wonderful. And the only thing better than being on a boat is being invited back. And so I think it's very important to have very good boat manners as a boat guest.

Leah: I also have a much larger array of knowledge about kayaks and canoes, so probably not the boats we're about to discuss, but that's more in my wheelhouse, my boat house.

Nick: So, yes, there are lots of different types of boats. And so I think some things may not apply to your canoe, and some things may not apply, you know, to yachts. I don't know. But in general, what I'm picturing for this conversation is like, you have a friend that has a boat, and we're gonna go out on the lake. And so this is a boat that probably fits at least four people.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: You know, that size. And we're gonna spend a couple of hours in the water. And you've been invited on the boat. And we're gonna have a nice afternoon. I think that's what I'm picturing in my head for this.

Leah: Lovely, lovely.

Nick: And so I think the first thing before we even go on board is we need to bring something. We cannot arrive empty handed, because it's like showing up at someone's house. You don't arrive empty handed. So I think we've got to bring something. Good things to bring? Bag of ice, beverages for everybody, snacks, things that don't melt. So I don't think we want, like, Hershey kisses, but like, you know, brownies are good. But I think we have to bring something.

Leah: I think that's great. I also love the bag of ice. That's definitely gonna come in handy.

Nick: I mean, actually ice for almost anything. Like, if you have a friend having a party, you will be such a savior if you just bring a couple of pounds of ice. Like they don't need more wine, just ice. Yeah, always bring ice. And this is also not the time when you bring the classics of flowers, candles or chocolates. So we don't actually want that list for today.

Leah: None of those things are gonna make it through the day.

Nick: And then I think before we even get on board, do not invite people onto the boat without telling the captain. Like, don't just bring extra people.

Leah: No, that seems wild.

Nick: That apparently happens. If you ask boat owners about, like, boat etiquette, unexpected passengers is, like, a thing. Which blows my mind.

Leah: Yeah, because it's a definitely limited space situation.

Nick: Yeah. Well, also, it's rude just to, like, show up even if there was space.

Leah: It's definitely—it's definitely rude, but I mean, in this situation, they might not genuinely even fit. So it's like ...

Nick: Yeah, there might not be enough life jackets.

Leah: So what, are you gonna hang over the side? What are you thinking?

Nick: Although if you show up on my boat uninvited, I don't want to give you a life jacket.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So now we have arrived at the boat. And it is very important to ask for permission to get on the boat before you get on the boat. It's tradition, of course, but there are some boats that you could actually, like, capsize if you just, like, jump on and the captain wasn't ready for you. So, like, just wait. Be like, "Hey, can I come on board?" Or you could use a very traditional, like, "Permission to come on board?" And they'll be like, "Permission granted."

Leah: I love that. Also, it's great if you're a vampire, because you can't be a vampire until you're formally invited on. So ...

Nick: Oh, is that the vampire rule? Vampires have to be invited in places?

Leah: Well in houses, they have to be invited in. I don't know if you've seen The Lost Boys, but I've been going through every Los Angeles movie ever, and that's about vampires. And it's just a quintessential '80s movie. They have to be invited in. So I assume it would be the same for a boat.

Nick: Oh, so if you don't invite a vampire into your house, you're good? What a loophole!

Leah: It's a huge loophole.

Nick: Enormous! Yeah! I mean, why are we fighting vampires? We just go home and we don't answer the door.

Leah: [laughs] Yes! Yes!

Nick: I mean, how hard is that?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Anyway, back to asking for permission. It's actually maritime law that you're not allowed to board a vessel without permission, because otherwise we call that being a stowaway or a pirate. So you're probably not gonna go to The Hague if you, like, jump on your friend's dinghy without permission but, like, you should ask for permission first. And I actually don't know. I've never actually been on a cruise. I don't think people are asking for permission before they, like, get on board the Carnival Panorama, right? Like, if you go on a cruise, there is nobody at the top of the gangplank being like, "You have permission granted." Like, I don't think that's happening, is it? I don't think so.

Leah: I don't know, but I do hope that people are just for fun shouting out, "Permission to come aboard!" Because it is a lovely saying.

Nick: So now you have permission. Okay, great. The next big thing is you got to listen to your captain, right? The captain is the captain of the ship—literally. And they have rules. Some of them might just be very health and safety, like, got to be seated at this time, like, we're about to dock, like, please be seated. Some of them, you know, may be more capricious. Like, I have a friend who has a boat. It's on a lovely lake, great sound system. And he has a rule that you are not allowed to wave at other boats.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: You're not allowed to away. And I was like, "Just explain why this is?" And he says, quote, "It empowers strangers to think that they now have a relationship with you. Then the next day, they're coming closer to the dock and now speaking to you. 'How are you?' And other such drivel. Then the next thing you know, they are reciting physical symptoms and the results of an MRI and attempting to show pictures of grandchildren. And then you are on a very slippery slope. All of this can be avoided by not waving."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So that's his rule: there is no waving on his boat. If you want to be a passenger on his boat, that's the rule. So that's what you do. No waving.

Leah: I feel so stressed immediately because, like, what if you're in the middle of the lake, a family goes by, they wave, and then you just—you would just have to make a, like, a stoic face.

Nick: Mm-mm. No. No. Sit on your hands.

Leah: Aah! The tension!

Nick: No. Yep, yep, no waving. No waving out of the boat. But, you know, that's the rule.

Leah: That's the rule.

Nick: Now, shoes. Shoes, very important topic, because what can happen on some boats is, like, you walked in from the parking lot and got on the boat and there's a pebble in your shoe and now you are walking on a teak deck, putting a scratch all over the boat. No one wants that. And also, a lot of shoes actually leave marks. Like, even "non-marking shoes," quote-unquote, like, can also leave marks. So a lot of the times you actually are probably barefoot on the boat depending on what it is. But whatever the footwear is, there will probably be instructions from your captain about what you're supposed to do or not do. So just know: shoes—it's a thing.

Leah: Just know: shoes—it's a thing.

Nick: Shoes. And don't throw trash overboard. Like, don't do that.

Leah: Oh, no!

Nick: This happens. I see this and this is, like, so disappointing.

Leah: No!

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: You see this?

Nick: I have seen people just, like, toss a can overboard. And you're like, "Oh." Yeah. No, it's—yeah. So you really shouldn't toss anything overboard, ideally. Like, just take it back to the dock. Like, we don't need your banana peels or peanut shells in the lake either. So just take it back to the dock.

Leah: Yeah, I feel so disheartened. I mean, I know people do this, but it's like, there are lovely animals and plant life living in the water.

Nick: Yes. Ecosystem.

Leah: It's an ecosystem.

Nick: Also, it's just rude to everybody else on the lake that now has to see your trash.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: That's just rude. Yeah. And also, like, you wouldn't just, like, leave trash in a park, would you? I mean, this person probably would, but you shouldn't.

Leah: You shouldn't.

Nick: No. So and for you? Kayaking and canoeing? Anything you want to add?

Leah: Well, usually you're—well, kayaking, you're by yourself, so it's—you know, you're giving yourself permission to come aboard.

Nick: And etiquette doesn't care what you do when you're alone.

Leah: Yeah. And then with canoeing, you obviously have to talk to the other people about getting aboard because you tip each other.

Nick: Yes. Communication is key, for sure.

Leah: And if you're in the middle, if you're in the middle of the canoe, you have to be like, "I'm gonna move" if you need to move. So, you know, again, you could tip.

Nick: I've never canoeed.

Leah: Oh, no? It's lovely. It's very lovely. We'll go canoeing.

Nick: Oh, that sounds fun. Or a horrible idea. One way or another.

Leah: One way or another, it'll be an experience.

Nick: It will definitely be something we'll never forget. Okay, put a pin in that.

Leah: [laughs] A hatpin.

Nick: Oh.

Leah: Is there anywhere else you want to steer this conversation?

Nick: Leah, what did we say about puns?

Leah: I don't know.

Nick: Oh, one thing I do want to mention is don't get drunk. Like, no one wants to have you be the drunk person on their boat. So just, you know, it's hot sun, we're having a good time, a lot of beers happening. Like, that's all great. But just, you know, let's not.

Leah: Let's not.

Nick: Let's not get too drunk, yeah. Because also just a safety reason, too. Like, it's probably not great to be drunk and then fall overboard. Like, that's probably not good if that's happening. So it's not a good idea for a lot of reasons. But let's just not.

Leah: Let's just not. And this is completely unrelated ...

Nick: Oh! Leah, tossing in something unrelated? Whoa! Hello, Ripley?

Leah: [laughs] You mentioned cruises earlier?

Nick: Right.

Leah: I haven't been on, like, a Carnival. I haven't been on a cruise like that. I love, like, deep from within myself, I love dolphin cruises.

Nick: Is that a company called Dolphin Cruises, or that's a cruise where we go see dolphins?

Leah: B.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: I cannot—every time we go to Florida, I literally jump out of myself to be like, "Can we do the dolphin cruise?" I just—you know, it's usually glass-bottomed boat.

Nick: Ah.

Leah: Sometimes you go around sunset, you go out there. I used to have this dream of when I retired from my illustrious comedy career—and then I'm obviously also a writer—but I would then perhaps own a dolphin cruise ship and I would take people out into the sunset and we would watch mommy dolphins jump out of the water with their baby dolphin right next to them. And you would think life is magic. I just can't get enough of it.

Nick: So you just want to have, like, a Lisa Frank binder come to life?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: That's what you want. Okay.

Leah: Have you been on a dolphin cruise?

Nick: I have not, so I don't know what I'm missing. I feel like my enthusiasm is probably lower for this venue. I don't know.

Leah: Water mammals just knock my socks off. I'm gonna be honest.

Nick: Okay. I mean, we all have our things.

Leah: I love dolphin cruises. But, you know, that's not like a Carnival cruise. It's two hours.

Nick: Right. Yes, it's a very bite-sized nautical experience. So anything else you want to add?

Leah: I think we're ready to bow out of this conversation.

Nick: Wow. You've really outdone yourself.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time for some questions from the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So over the last 100 episodes, there's been a lot of questions from the wilderness to choose from.

Leah: A lot of questions.

Nick: It was very hard.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Very difficult. And I love the three that we picked because they're all food themed.

Leah: [laughs] I know. I was like, "Let's do foods."

Nick: Yeah, I think it was just coincidence that they all happened to be food themed. But here we are.

Leah: Here we are.

Nick: So one of them is about LaCroix, LaCroix Soda, which I had never had when we were talking about it in that episode. And I do happen to have a can of Peach-Pear LaCroix right here.

Leah: Ah, I'm so glad you went with the Peach Pear. I would've said, "Nick, please go with the Peach-Pear or the Pamplemousse."

Nick: [laughs] Okay, so I am going to try, right now for the first time ever, some LaCroix. And it actually was very funny trying to buy this today because it's actually hard to find in New York City, apparently. And so I went into my local CVS, and there was no LaCroix in the case. Like, there just—it wasn't in the refrigerated section. So I went to a staff person and I was like, "Oh, excuse me. Do you have LaCroix?" And she looked at me like, "What are you talking about?" And it actually did not occur to me that that is not the correct pronunciation of this item.

Leah: I was gonna say maybe you should ask for a LaCroy.

Nick: So I remembered that when she looked at me like, "What are you asking for?" And I was like, "Oh, do you have LaCroix?" And she was like, "Yes. Aisle five."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And that's all I needed to do. But honestly, I had forgotten that LaCroix is actually not the pronunciation, but I'm going to try "Lacroy."

Leah: History in the making.

Nick: So here we go. I'm gonna try it. I'm going to be like a foley artist. Okay. All right. Very nice. And then because I'm not an animal, I'm gonna pour it into a glass.

Leah: I feel like you're missing some of the experience, but okay.

Nick: Oh, is part of the experience drinking from the can?

Leah: I mean, I love to pop a can sit on the couch with my LaCroix.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: He's smelling it.

Nick: It definitely has notes of peach and pear, so that's good. And it does smell very juicy. It smells very—like, very fruity, very juicy.

Leah: But not too much, right? It's not too much. It's not overpowering.

Nick: Um, I mean, it's definitely present. It's very forward. And so let's try it.

Leah: He's sipping, He's tasting.

Nick: Okay, interesting. What's interesting is that the nose, the smell, is very pear. It's very pear forward. I'm not getting a lot of the peach, although sort of the end taste, the end of the journey, I do get a little peach at the end. So that's interesting. That's kind of an interesting balance. So okay, I get this. I get why this is like a thing.

Leah: I think Nick is way more excited than he's letting on.

Nick: Oh, you think I'm just being cool about it?

Leah: I'm really looking forward to after we stop recording and he just drinks the whole thing in one gulp. I've been waiting my whole life!

Nick: Well, I need that hat that's supposed to be for beer where you just put two cans in it.

Leah: That is what you need!

Nick: Yeah, that's what I need. Well, I actually had to buy a whole case because CVS only sold it by the case. So I now have, like, a case of this, so I will be drinking more of it. But no, I like it. It's a good thing.

Leah: And now I know what I'm getting you for Christmas: beer hat for LaCroix.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Yes. So there's that. And then one of the segments that I think probably generated the most feedback of all is about mac and cheese.

Leah: Yes, I definitely got a lot of messages about sporks.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: I would like to apologize to the spork people.

Nick: Yeah. Big Spork, they're definitely after you.

Leah: [laughs] There's a—I wasn't—I just was unfamiliar.

Nick: Yes. You do say the line, "I've never seen a real spork."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And I think audience, the number of photos that you have now sent Leah definitely covers us. She is familiar with sporks at this point, so it is not required to send her any more DMs that are spork related.

Leah: But I—you know, live and learn.

Nick: Oh, yeah. No, you—you learned. Yeah, you definitely learned.

Leah: [laughs] And I also want to say that every time I'm in a store, any store, somehow my eyes find the mac and cheese box and sees that spoon on it.

Nick: I mean, there's a spoon on it.

Leah: There's a spoon on it and boggles the mind.

Nick: But first, let's kick it off with pickles.

Leah: And I'm so glad we're doing pickles. Coincidentally, a very close friend who also listens to the podcast just sent me—because of this segment, we talk about pickles all the time.

Nick: A jar of pickles.

Leah: No, a recipe that is a puff pastry pizza.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: With pickles on it. Which I will be making.

Nick: What?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Wait, what?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. I mean, I will reserve judgment for once.

Leah: She added a few things. I was like, "We know you're not actually reserving judgment." She added a few things that she would change in the recipe, so I'm gonna go with her version. But this pickle conversation has opened up a whole new world of people sharing interesting pickle stories with me. And I'm delighted because, you know, I love those pickles.

Nick: Well, without further ado ...

Leah: Let's talk about pickles!

Nick: So our first question is quote—and someone actually forwarded this to me on Instagram, which is, "How soon is too soon to ask someone if they're going to eat their pickle when you're out to lunch? Have we as a society determine this yet?"

Leah: I love under the headline of "Things we need to determine as a society." It's a great—it's a great category.

Nick: Yes. We need definitive rules about certain things: how long you can leave your laundry in the dryer, when you can unplug someone else's electric vehicle, when ...

Leah: When you can ask for the pickle. [laughs]

Nick: So okay, Leah. Do you have thoughts?

Leah: Well, I think in this one, we gotta split it up. It's gotta be do we know—like I—certain people I eat with, I know they're not gonna eat their pickle. They never eat their pickle.

Nick: Hmm.

Leah: So when they get their food and it has a pickle, I feel comfortable saying, "Are you gonna eat your pickle?" Because I know they don't want it.

Nick: Okay, so when you're dining with declared pickle decliners, then fair game. Ask immediately.

Leah: Fair game right up top. I think they don't even want it on their plate. You're doing them a favor.

Nick: Okay. Interesting.

Leah: They've been giving you this pickle for 10, 20 years. You know what I mean?

Nick: Oh. Well, if you have a history of pickle redistribution with this person, then yeah, if there's a history, yeah okay.

Leah: Yeah, I think if there's a history, I mean, you don't even have to wait 'til the plates are out. You could be like, "Hey, when you get that pickle, can I have it?" And they'll be like, "Yeah, no problem."

Nick: On the way to the restaurant.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah.

Nick: When you're scheduling the lunch. Right. "Let's do lunch tomorrow. And by the way, I want your pickle."

Leah: Yeah, because you know. This is the relationship.

Nick: But then there's gonna be the category of people where perhaps their pickle status is unknown.

Leah: And in that case, I think you have to wait unless you want to be—I'm just throwing this out. This could be a no, but we'll just ...

Nick: Uh-huh. Okay.

Leah: We're just gonna workshop it.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: Maybe you're out with, like, five people and everybody's got burgers and fries and pickles. Everybody got the same thing. And you love pickles. Pickles are one of the reasons you get up in the morning. And you say—when all the food gets put down, you say, "Hey, if anybody doesn't like pickles, I love pickles. I'm happy to take them if anybody's not into their pickles."

Nick: Okay, I like that making an announcement. Yeah. That doesn't put anybody on the spot.

Leah: Nobody's on the spot. It's a general pickle announcement.

Nick: But really, what is the appropriate amount of time or way to ask when you're unsure of their pickle status and it's a one on one? We can't make a blanket announcement to the table. We're just dining with one person. They have a burger, they're eating their burger. You see the pickle has not been touched. And you're like, "Are they gonna eat the pickle? Not eat the pickle?" Because I am aware that pickle preferers do sometimes save the pickle for the end.

Leah: They do.

Nick: They're like, "I'm gonna save the best for last." So the fact that a pickle has not been touched is not necessarily indicative of pickle disdain.

Leah: It is very true.

Nick: So what do we do with this?

Leah: I think we could just ask. "Hey, are you a pickle—are you a pickle person?"

Nick: So I guess you can ask if they like pickles. And I think you have to wait towards the end of their meal.

Leah: I think you could do it in the first quarter.

Nick: First quarter, okay.

Leah: Not at the beginning of the first quarter. End of the first quarter. And I do like what you said about saying, "Hey, just so you know, I love pickles. If you're not gonna eat—" although I feel fine saying, "Are you a pickle person?"

Nick: I think a declarative statement is probably better than a question. "Hey, if you're not gonna eat your pickle, I love pickles." And just, like, leave it at that. I think that's a little nicer than asking if I can have your pickle, because then it's sort of like, "Oh, do I have to share my pickle now?"

Leah: Well, I didn't ask if I could have your pickle. I asked if you were a pickle person.

Nick: Oh, are you a pickle person? A character question. Hmm. Is it in your nature?

Leah: I also would love to have a full conversation about pickles, so if you say yes, then I want to know what kind of pickles you like. Have you ever made your own pickles? You know, it could be a great conversation.

Nick: Right. And then we go to fermentation. You know, there's all these adjacent worlds.

Leah: It's a—it's a broad topic of exciting details to learn. So I think if you want to talk about if that's—if you like pickles, and maybe you'll get a pickle out of it, maybe you won't, but you might get a full pickle conversation, that might be a way to go into it.

Nick: Okay. So did we answer the question? Did we provide any information here?

Leah: Well, we decided if it was a group situation we could make an announcement.

Nick: Yeah, I like that. Okay.

Leah: And if it's one on one, we had two suggestions. You felt like after half time, we could say ...

Nick: But I could see first quarter, but the end of the first quarter, start of the second quarter.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And you think the person should say ...

Nick: I think you might want to just talk about your own pickle appreciation, and sort of leave that hanging. Like, "I love pickles," and we just sort of hint, I guess. Although then I would be like, "Oh, you should just be polite and direct."

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Like, that would also be what I would say. Like, being a little coy? That's actually a little rude.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So maybe—yeah, maybe you should be like, "Hey, I'd love your pickle if you're not gonna eat it." I think that's what I would say. It's not a question, I'm just letting you know if you're not gonna eat your pickle, I would love it. And we just sort of like state that.

Leah: I would love to say that I'm letting you know.

Nick: Right. FYI.

Leah: I would love your pickle if you're not gonna eat it. If you are gonna eat it, I'm excited for you.

Nick: Right. I'm glad the pickle will be eaten, and so I want to make sure that that's covered.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah. Yes.

Nick: Okay. Maybe that's the spirit.

Leah: I just want the pickle to get eaten. I think that's fair. I just want the pickle to be appreciated.

Nick: It's a team effort at this table, and so I'm gonna jump in if you need me, Coach. Like, I'm ready to do it. But if you're gonna do it, that's great. But we've just gotta get it done.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. [laughs] Okay.

Our first question is, quote, "I have to repent. There have been two LaCroix sitting in the work fridge for more than a year unclaimed. I drank one of them today. Can I just replace this LaCroix with the same flavor on Monday?" So first question, though, is it LaCroix? I know people say it in many different ways. And to me, I say it the way that they say it on AbFab. LaCroix, sweetie. LaCroix.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So that's how I would say it. But people say, like, "Lacroix."

Leah: Lacroix. I say Lacroix.

Nick: Right? You say Lacroix?

Leah: But I recognize that LaCroix would also be correct.

Nick: Yes! LaCroix, sweetie. LaCroix. So regardless, I've actually never had this beverage.

Leah: Are you serious?

Nick: Well, I mean, when would this come up for me? I'm not gonna buy it.

Leah: Oh, I ...

Nick: And they don't serve it on, like, an airplane.

Leah: It's probably my most drunken drink.

Nick: Okay, so what is it all about? Why is it such a craze? It's just like sparkling water with, like, a hint of flavor?

Leah: It's—what it is, is that it's the correct amount of "hint." Some sparkling beverages, the taste is so strong, and it's often very sort of chemically on the back of your tongue tasty. You know what I mean?

Nick: Okay. Metallic or artificial.

Leah: Yes. And you're like, "Eww!" And Lacroix or LaCroix just kind of sprinkles it in. It just sprinkles it in so nice.

Nick: I see. It's just a suggestion of pampelmousse.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Okay.

Leah: A pampelmousse or the peach pear, oh!

Nick: Un peu.

Leah: Un petit peu. de peach pear.

Nick: I see. [laughs]

Leah: And there is one flavor that we had to immediately get out of our house. And we put, you know, a little sign that says "Free to new home," because we buy it in large ...

Nick: Okay, go to Costco.

Leah: Yeah, but ...

Nick: What flavor?

Leah: I don't know if I can say this, but the coconut. The coconut goes against the whole LaCroix of sprinkling in the flavor. The coconut tastes like you're drinking sun lotion. It is—oof!

Nick: Okay, not for you. So if we had a nickel for every complaint we got about office fridges, we would have a lot of nickels. So I think we can agree it's rude to eat someone else's food, right? Like, it's a baseline. That's a baseline rule.

Leah: Yeah, it's a jumping off point.

Nick: Yeah. But I feel like a year? A year? If somebody came to you and be like,"Did you drink my soda that I've had there for a year?" And you were like, "Yes." Like, do you really have a leg to stand on there? I feel like there is an expiration date.

Leah: There definitely is, and I think the fact that you're just gonna replace it Monday, totally fine. And then you'll probably drink that one and then replace it again.

Nick: Oh, yeah, you could do that. I mean, definitely it's been abandoned. I think it's been abandoned. But if we think it hasn't been, and we're sure that these are the exact same cans, that someone else isn't just bringing in new cans every day, like, we know that that's not the case. Then I think what we could do is we send an announcement—oh, because what is bonkers about this office is that we have no rules about cleaning out the fridge? That the fridge can actually exist in a state of perpetual chaos? That there's no Friday at five clean up like normal offices? Like, what is happening? Why is this lawless? So I feel like I would send an email to the office and be like, "Hey, everybody, I'm gonna clean out the fridge at five on Friday. So take anything out by then, or make sure it has your name and a date on it or, like, something." And then if these LaCroix are still there at 5:01, then they're yours to keep.

Leah: I mean, I feel like you covered all of it.

Nick: Right? Yeah. There's nothing left on the table, yeah. But yeah, I think something that's nonperishable like this, yeah, I think go for it after a year. Sure.

Leah: But I do like the idea of replacing it on Monday.

Nick: I like the idea of replacing it, but if it's been abandoned, then this replacement is going to be there as well forever.

Leah: But then you can just drink it at the end of the week again.

Nick: Then we would just drink it at the end of the week.

Leah: Well, no. Then I would just keep replacing it and drinking it myself, you know?

Nick: Wait. Forever?

Leah: Forever until I switch offices.

Nick: And then will we leave the cans on your way out, or would you take them with you?

Leah: Then we would leave the cans.

Nick: I see. So the idea is that this fridge requires two cans of LaCroix at all times.

Leah: Yeah, just to keep it—its essence.

Nick: Well, it's sort of like the essence of LaCroix in the fridge ...

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: ... is like the essence of the flavor in the LaCroix. Oh, it's so beautiful!

Leah: So beautiful.

Nick: Okay, so I think it's nice that you repented, but I think you're in the clear.

Leah: I think so, too.

So our first question is quote, "What is the correct utensil for eating mac and cheese—a fork or a spoon?"

Leah: I go hard on fork.

Nick: Fork. That's it. No conversation required.

Leah: I have childhood memories.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: My parents weren't in on, like, processed food, so I didn't get macaroni and cheese.

Nick: Mmm.

Leah: I had one babysitter that every time I had her, we had macaroni and cheese. And I lost my little child mind. And I have fond memories of taking the fork and putting the little elbows of macaroni on each ...

Nick: One per tine.

Leah: One per tine. And what a dream! I feel like if you have a spoon, it's soup.

Nick: Okay. Well, so I agree. My instinct, my first thought is, of course, it's a fork. Of course, we use forks. And I would like to venture that most of our audience would agree with us. However, let's talk about it. So I looked up the etiquette greats to see has anyone weighed in? And it turns out Emily and Amy, they have not weighed in on this question. So we will not get any help from them. But I did look at the Kraft Mac and Cheese box, and on the box they show a spoon.

Leah: What?

Nick: It is not a fork. On the packaging, they suggest through their imagery that the spoon is the correct utensil.

Leah: Well, I mean, I guess whatever gets it to your mouth.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Uh-huh.

Leah: But it feels more shovel-y with the spoon.

Nick: Right. True. And I think on some level, when we think about etiquette and table manners, a lot of the table manners in the United States are sort of Victorian, where the idea is that we want to pretend we're not actually eating. And so anything that looks like you're trying to shovel food into your face is typically not the way we want to do it. So I think by that argument, yes, spoon would be incorrect because it's a little too easy.

Leah: I'm a huge shoveler. I mean, anybody who knows me, I'm just like, "Get it in my mouth now!"

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: And I think, A) if you have mac and cheese that has so much liquid in it that you need a spoon ...

Nick: Right.

Leah: It needs to go back into the oven or the pan or however—you mis-cooked it.

Nick: Right. If there's a viscosity problem with your mac and cheese where, like, spoon becomes correct? Yeah, maybe there is something wrong with this dish.

Leah: I mean, I believe in the goodness of a mac and cheese, so if what brings you joy is piling it onto a spoon, then by all means pile. But I would say fork.

Nick: Now I was thinking if it is a homemade mac and cheese, this is not like a KD dinner. This is like something you made, it's a mornay sauce. And the sauce is so good, the cheese you've used is so delicious that you want to get every drop of it. And so if the sauce is really the featured highlighted item in this dish, not necessarily the pasta, I can see maybe why the spoon would be the one you would reach for.

Leah: I could see it. And I'm sure at some point in my life I've had macaroni and cheese with a spoon.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I'm sure it's happened.

Nick: Yeah. All right.

Leah: But how are you gonna put each of the little elbows and give them all sleeves? You know what I mean? You're gonna give them fork sleeves.

Nick: How would you do that? Yes.

Leah: Which is way more fun.

Nick: Yes. Although I do believe that is not etiquette approved.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So let's not do that at the formal dinner party where we're serving mac and cheese.

Leah: Let's do that. And because I guarantee you somebody across the table from you will go, "Oh, sweaters for your fork?" And you go, "Yes!"

Nick: Sweaters for your fork?

Leah: And then you've found a new friend.

Nick: Okay. Now what about the third option—the unspoken option—the spork?

Leah: I can't.

Nick: No?

Leah: I just emotionally packed up and left the house.

Nick: Okay, so we cannot get on board with the spork.

Leah: I just find them to be—I've only seen a plastic spork. I've never seen a real spork.

Nick: Well, it actually is not a new utensil. I think they actually kind of started in the 1800s. Like, they've definitely been around a long time.

Leah: I thought you were gonna say chopsticks.

Nick: Oh, chopsticks!

Leah: I feel like that's for when you really want to make it last. You know, you're like, "I'm just gonna have one at a time."

Nick: And would you put the pasta on one individual chopstick? Is that how'd you do it?

Leah: [laughs] Chopstick sweaters!

Nick: So I think—for a variety of reasons, I think fork is probably correct, although the fact that Kraft uses a spoon on their packaging does throw a bit of a wild card in it, because I feel like they've done market research, and somehow a lot of their audience resonates with spoon more. And so why is that?

Leah: I would like to believe that they were mixing it with the spoon. They were putting it onto their plate with the spoon.

Nick: No, no. This is like, spoon ready to go into your face. That's what this photo looks like.

Leah: Maybe they're thinking it's more like a SpaghettiOs situation, and that was like—you know, in another episode, you said how to handle something—oh, it was the spa episode. And you were saying sometimes when we have something new, we think, "What's like this?"

Nick: Right.

Leah: And we handled that situation. So maybe when Kraft Macaroni and Cheese came out, they thought, "What is like this that people will understand what we're going for?" And then they went, "SpaghettiOs!"

Nick: I see. Oh, this is such a new thing. Nobody knows what this is yet. We're gonna have to help them understand how to get it from their plate to their face.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so to help them along, we will give them something that's familiar. That's the spoon. I see.

Leah: You know what it is? This just hit me right now, is that macaroni cheese is a comfort food.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: And I think that more comfort foods are eaten with spoons—ice cream, soup.

Nick: Oh! Yes, that's true.

Leah: So the spoon signifies to the viewer of the box this is gonna make—whereas a fork's slightly aggressive, it implies more work. It implies you're eating in a social situation where you have to think about not making fork sweaters.

Nick: There's linen involved.

Leah: A spoon says—there's linen.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: A spoon says, "You kick back. You relax."

Nick: I see. It's sort of a warm hug.

Leah: It is a warm—a spoon is a warm hug.

Nick: Oh, that's actually a good psychological point, that the spoon does feel like an embrace.

Leah: It really does.

Nick: Whereas a fork feels like work.

Leah: It's working. You're working.

Nick: Mm-hmm. You're laboring to get the pasta into your face.

Leah: It's a labor.

Nick: Whereas the spoon? Effortless.

Leah: Effortless, and it's very couch-y. I'm gonna sit on the couch.

Nick: That's true.

Leah: I'm probably wearing warm socks.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's definitely a wool type of a feel.

Leah: [laughs] Yes, it is.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: You're full of a blanket after you eat it.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So you out there, if you have any thoughts about fork versus spoon or spork. Or if you have some terrapin spoons laying around, I guess you could use those. But yeah, let us know. What is the preferred utensil in your house?

Leah: And it quite possibly varies by mood, you know? I could see it—now that we've talked it out, I could really see it varying by mood.

Nick: Oh, like, "Oh, who am I tonight? Oh, tonight. I'm a fork person."

Leah: "Tonight I'm eating fancy macaroni and cheese."

Nick: Right.

Leah: "And I'm making sweaters. But tomorrow, I'm relaxed. I'm spooning it in."

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call, Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently. Or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, I have crunched some numbers, and I have looked at the last 100 episodes and what our percentages were. So what do you think it was?

Leah: I think ...

Nick: What percentage of our vents or repents were actually vents?

Leah: I was gonna guess that it would be—the segment would more appropriately be called Vent, Vent, Vent, Vent or Repent. Like, it was one out of five. But I actually don't even think that it's one out of five is a repent.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I think it's maybe two percent.

Nick: Well, it's higher than that. What's a little tricky is that there are definitely definite vents. And then there were, like, things that were not. So you had a pre-vent.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Which was you cleaning up salsa in Ralph's, and I don't know what we do with that. And then you had something just about, like, cookie dough and you're like, "I don't know what we do with this." I had a lament, and so, you know, that's not a vent. But you vented 84 percent of the time. 84 percent. And I vented 90 percent of the time.

Leah: [laughs] I feel like your number is higher than that, and you're counting something.

Nick: I mean, I crunched the numbers. I don't know. So for today's Vent or Repent, we went through the archives and oh, there's been some fun things.

Leah: And coincidentally, we picked all vents.

Nick: I mean, so weird! I mean, statistically speaking, that's how it had to be.

Leah: How it had to be.

Nick: And we couldn't just pick one each, so we went with two each. We make the rules. We can do whatever we want.

Leah: What it was is that I could—I had two that I really wanted Nick to do.

Nick: And life is about more not or, so I said, "Let's do it all."

Leah: For me, I think it's very funny both of mine involve airports.

Nick: I did notice that, yes.

Leah: But I think that in my life it's either gonna be an airport, driving or a group fitness class. It's gonna be one of these three.

Nick: And for me, one of mine actually I don't think is a vent. It's more just a things I don't like in the world.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So—so maybe statistically, actually I am lower than 90 percent.

Leah: I—are we talking about the G word one?

Nick: We're talking about the G word.

Leah: I love this one so much. I was like, "It's a must."

Nick: So yeah. So I don't know if it's a vent, but I just don't care for it. So I'm throwing it in like a garnish.

Leah: Oh! He's just topping it off.

Nick: [laughs] Oh!

Nick: So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I think I'm gonna vent.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: As Nick actually put in a request on this vent. [laughs]

Nick: Oh, good! I specifically ordered this one up.

Leah: So I recently have been flying, and I mentioned to Nick—I think I also updated my Instagram because at the moment I was, I think, shocked. There's a—whatever the next word is from "shocked."

Nick: Terrified.

Leah: Terrified!

Nick: Disgusted? Alarmed?

Leah: Alarmed. I think I was very alarmed. So I was transferring flights, and I was in the waiting area. And I see a man with a ventriloquist dummy.

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: And he's not, like, carrying the dummy in, like, a ...

Nick: It's not in the suitcase.

Leah: It's not in a suitcase. It's not even in, like, a baby carrier. It is in full—it is in full life. I don't know. It's fully animated.

Nick: Animated?

Leah: Yeah. He's got his his hand in it, and it's sitting on his other arm

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: And it's walking through the waiting area of the airport with him, and it's looking at people. And my mind I just think, "Oh, no!"

Nick: Oh!

Leah: Oh, no! I think, "I'm not ready for this." There has to be a part of this that feels ...

Nick: You got to warm up to that.

Leah: Yah, I can't just jump in the ventriloquist dummy. And part of me was like, is this illegal somewhere? I don't know.

Leah: And was the doll, like, greeting people?

Leah: The doll then, of course, you immediately start throwing up prayers to heaven where you're like, "Please don't let this person be next to me." You know what I mean? I think that's what you're thinking.

Nick: Don't make eye contact. Don't make eye contact.

Leah: I thought, "Don't make eye contact." And then I get on the plane. I'm sitting. I'm in an aisle seat. I see the man and the doll coming down the aisle, and the doll is greeting people.

Nick: Oh! Coming down the aisle?

Leah: Coming down the aisle. And the doll looked at me and I—I just, like, waved. I was like, "What am I supposed to do?"

Nick: You don't want to be rude.

Leah: I don't want to be rude. I don't want to start something with the doll, you know what I mean?

Nick: You definitely do not want to get into an altercation with a doll.

Leah: No. I have seen movies about this. I am not getting involved. I was then emotionally forced into saying hi to this doll out of fear that there would be some repercussions.

Nick: Okay, so I think this is an etiquette crime.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I think it is rude to force ventriloquism on others. I think it is. I think it's rude.

Leah: It's definitely very shocking.

Nick: Yes, I think to make other people uncomfortable is always rude. And I think this is definitely an occasion that makes people uncomfortable.

Leah: I went from not flying to flying with a ventriloquist doll that's talking to people. And you think, "Is this a haunted plane? What kind of a scary movie am I living right now?"

Nick: Right! Well, I'm sorry this happened to you.

Leah: [laughs] And it is an etiquette crime. So this vent? It's solid.

Leah: I actually remember thinking Nick would not like this.

Nick: I would not care for this, definitely not. Because I don't want forced interactions with strangers on planes in general, and then when they're inanimate objects pretending to be animate, I definitely draw the line there. Absolutely. Hard line in the sand.

Leah: Hard line. And then, of course, I was also like, "Hi, how are you?" [laughs]

Nick: Terrifying.

Nick: And for me, I would like to vent. And so I just want to do, like, a little review on how doors work.

Leah: Okay. I don't know what this is, but it's already my favorite thing.

Nick: [laughs] They're new, so perhaps not all of us are, like, super familiar with them. And I really do think, though, they're gonna be like the next big thing when it comes to, like, getting through walls. So I think it is important to sort of review doors. So I'm at the Whitney Museum here in New York City, and the museum is such that they don't have escalators and the elevators are very slow. And so you have to really just take the elevator to the top floor, and then you have to take the stairs down. Like, that's the only way to navigate this museum. So I'm on the sixth floor. I've seen the exhibit. I'm gonna go into the stairwell and I'm gonna go to another floor. And the door opens into the stairwell away from me. So I push the door, but someone actually is right there and they open the door towards them. They're standing in the stairwell. Leah, what should happen next?

Leah: I would step back and let you through.

Nick: You're holding the door for me and you would let me through.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Uh-huh. Yes. Because that is physics.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And so that is not what happened. What happened is this person opened the door, and then tried to exit the stairwell past me while also still trying to hold the door open for me. So their arm is now behind them and they're hoping I'm gonna somehow catch the door, which is not possible because their body is between me and the door. And so then what they did is that thing where you kind of give a door a shove to make it sort of bounce open, and you hope that I'm gonna catch it because now you've darted away. So they did that, and they're like, "Oh, I hope you catch the door before it swings into your face." And I was like, this is not how this works. You need to hold the door open for me so that I can go past you, and then you can walk and have the door closed behind you. Like, that's how this works, because otherwise there's no other way to do it. Like, there just aren't options.

Leah: I feel like I'm such a visual. I see the whole thing happening.

Nick: Yes!

Leah: I think if we ever have a book, we have a chapter called "Doors."

Nick: "Doors: what are they good for?"

Leah: Train doors, subway doors, large buildings, stairwells.

Nick: And in New York City, I mean, there are times, like, in an escalator or an elevator situation where there might be somebody who's like clearly a tourist and you're like, "Oh, you probably just don't have that many escalators or elevators in your town where you're from. Okay." Like revolving doors. Not everybody has them. Not everybody is good at that. Okay, I get it. Doors, though? Doors. I feel like we all have doors.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: We have a lot of door experience. Even children. Children know about doors, you know? It's not something you learn later in life. So it just feels like a reminder that when the door swings towards you and you're holding the door, you are now holding the door. And so please let the person, like, go through.

Leah: I think they even had doors when they had trenchers.

Nick: I think they also had doors back then. Yes. Also not edible.

Leah: [laughs] Also not edible.

Nick: So that's my vent.

Leah: I loved it!

Leah: I'm also gonna vent, and it's also about an airport line.

Nick: All right, bring it!

Leah: So I'm waiting, as we all do, to get—you know, some people stand up, some people may be crowding a little bit too much. We know what's going on.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: And at this point, people have crowded in a lot, so there's not a lot of room for the people who are actually going.

Nick: You know what the term for this is?

Leah: No.

Nick: "Gate lice."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: Ooh, that's good. And I got the perfect visual as soon as you—yes, that is it.

Nick: Gate lice. Yeah. Don't be gate lice.

Leah: Don't be gate lice! So I'm off to the back, but I'm also gonna be one of the earlier groups to be called. So I'm ready. And then this woman ...

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: It's a woman and a man, push by me and all these other people, and then stand almost directly in front of the two ropes where you're supposed to go through.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So I assume they're next. I also want to say—and maybe this is petty of me, but I'm gonna say it—the woman was decked out: hat, on her tote bag, t-shirt, everything was like "Kindness is the best," there was, like, a lot of environmental stuff. All these things about kindness. I mean, she had sayings on everything.

Nick: Really? Okay.

Leah: Yes. So then she, with her "I love kindness" accoutrements, is standing directly in front. The next group gets called, not her. Everybody's trying to get by them. The next group gets called, not her. Next—my group gets called. I go by her. They're still standing there. She's the last group. She ends up being sat right behind me. You're the last group! You're wearing all these "I love kindness, be good to people" and you're blocking? You push—physically push by people, and then you block the entryway for everyone so you can go last.

Nick: I mean, I guess it's aspirational?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Is that what it is?

Leah: I'm like—when she sat down, I couldn't help it. I just stared. I was like, "Really? We all had to, like, squish by you, and then you're last?" I mean! I was like, "You should change your ensemble because this is not your vibe. Do you have, like, a 'narcissist' shirt you could wear out?"

Nick: Yeah, I think actually the bigger crime here is not the behavior, it's the wardrobe.

Leah: It really is the wardrobe. I was like, "You are—did you borrow someone's clothes?"

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, because a kind person would let you borrow their "Kindness" t-shirt, right?

Leah: Yeah, I think the kind person let you borrow the shirt and was like, "This will be funny."

Nick: [laughs] Well, I'm sorry this happened to you.

Nick: [laughs] So for me, I want to talk about garnishes. And have we talked about my philosophy on garnishes?

Leah: No, we haven't.

Nick: Did you know I had a philosophy on garnishes? Of course I do.

Leah: would have guessed if you were like, "Do you think I have?" I would say yes.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Do I know what it is? No.

Nick: So we're talking about garnishes on, like, food and drink. And so these are things that get added to a dish that are not the dish. So, like, you know, the thing that's like the little bonus, the sprinkle, it's the toppings, it's the whatever doodle. And so that's what we're talking about. And so I was just at this restaurant in the Village having dinner, and I ordered the salmon. And so, Leah, what is the garnish, do you think I received on my salmon plate?

Leah: I would assume it was a lemon.

Nick: Yeah. Lemon. Great garnish. Love that. Yeah. No, what I got was a purple orchid.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: It's like, what? And this purple orchid is actually very common. Actually, once you start observing garnishes in the wild, you will see this purple flower pop up way more often than it should. Like, it is very common, shockingly common. And so I got a purple flower on my plate. And here's my feeling: garnishes should be functional. Not just edible, they should be functional. And if they're not functional, they need to add a significant level of whimsy to whatever it is.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So, like if we're having a banana daiquiri and you put plastic monkeys on the glass, great. Nonfunctional but whimsy—allowed. But, like, cocoa powder? No one wants to eat raw cocoa powder. Not a good garnish, not functional. So I do want there to be some reason for being. And the thing needs to also be delicious in and of itself, and it needs to be delicious when combined with the thing it's on. So, like, you need to be able to take a bite of, like, the salmon and a bite of the garnish together, and that together should also taste good. There should be some relationship there.

Nick: And I also like when the garnish has a relationship with what's in the dish. So, like, if there's gonna be rosemary chicken then, like, okay, if you put a rosemary bush on the plate, like, that makes sense. But if there's no rosemary in this dish, like, don't put a twig of rosemary on the plate. Similarly, like, is this ice cream mint ice cream? No. Why is there a mint leaf on it? Why—why is that? Why is that happening? Like, if you give me a piece of cake and there's a raspberry, I'm gonna assume there's, like, a layer of raspberry in this thing. Like, why is there just like a raspberry on it? So I do want there to be some relationship, or there needs to be some philosophical reason, there needs to be some intellectual reason for this. So, like, it's a light cookie with something dense, or it's like something acidic with something fatty. Like, there needs to be some things thought out, like, some reason for being, but just, like, to slap something on a plate just to do it like a purple flower? No. No. Do not care for that. No, please don't.

Leah: I love this. I feel like it should be a chapter somewhere. At least an article. But I would say chapter. Garnish theory.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, do you have strong feelings about garnishes?

Leah: Well, now I feel like I do. I mean, I've definitely thought—I've definitely gotten a plate and been like, "I don't know why this is here."

Nick: Yeah, why does this exist? Right.

Leah: But I haven't broken it down to be like, it either needs to be whimsical or functional.

Nick: Yes. And it needs to enhance. We gotta have some additive quality. I don't want just, like, parsley sprinkles just for the sake of putting something green on the plate.

Leah: I think this is a very fair breakdown.

Nick: And is this etiquette? I mean, I guess it's not mindful of my feelings as a diner.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I guess that's what it comes down to.

Leah: You could bring it up. "Can I talk to somebody about the garnishes on this? Because ..."

Nick: "Yeah, I have a complaint."

Leah: "I'm at a loss."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Or "Help me understand."

Nick: Yes. "Walk me through the process that led us to this today." Yes. "Help me understand how this shmear of raspberry coulis on this otherwise non-raspberry dish showed up. How did this happen? I don't know. I'd love to learn. Yeah." [laughs] So garnishes, let's all be more mindful with our garnishes, everybody.

Leah: I'm gonna invest in Tums.

Nick: I mean, good garnish. [laughs]

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So, Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I think I've learned that you and I are going to clearly grow old together.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm ready for that.

Leah: We were gonna stop at 30. We were gonna stop at 100. Now we're at 200.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's a slippery slope to two million, for sure.

Leah: Slippery slope to moving in next door to each other.

Nick: Or with each other. I mean, we can get some twin beds.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Bunk beds. Do you want the top or the bottom?

Leah: Could you imagine?

Nick: I mean, I can. Yeah. I mean, actually, at this point, I can imagine.

Leah: What a show that would be. Talk about the odd couple.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. Or it's really a true crime story.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And I learned that we will never truly exhaust things to talk about. It's just there will always be etiquette crimes out there.

Leah: But on the flip side, I deeply believe that kindness spreads.

Nick: Yes. And I do inherently believe in the goodness of everybody. And so let's just hope someday we will get our Nobel Prize.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks you out there for listening. It has been such a treat to have you on this journey with us. And we couldn't do without you. And if I could, I really would write a handwritten thank-you note to each and every one of you on my custom stationery.

Leah: He really would.

Nick: I really would. So please keep sending in your questions, your vents, your bonkers stories. We love it all. And we love you guys for being with us. So thank you. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do but only gave you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: So to build on what Nick just said, I want to do a Cordials of Kindnessto our amazing listeners.

Nick: Yes!

Leah: I never would have guessed when we started out how wonderful and supportive, and how many people wrote us so many great letters and get in touch with us. And I feel deeply grateful every day for this, and thank you so much.

Nick: For sure. And for me, I want to say thank you to you, Leah, because what a journey this has been. And we joke about it like, "Oh, we're stuck with each other forever," but if I have to be stuck with somebody, there's nobody else I'd rather be stuck with than you. And so when we're in our retirement community called Manners End, and we're sitting on the porch when we're 90, we will still be venting about the mint sprig that showed up on that chocolate pudding that didn't belong. And I look forward to this day. I do. So thank you, Leah. This has been such a fun thing.

Leah: What? Nick! I'm blushing. Speechless!

Nick: So thank you.

Leah: Thank you! Thank you!

Nick: No, thank you.

Leah: I insist. Thank you.

Nick: Oh, no. After you.

Leah: You.

Nick: [laughs]