Using the Correct Fork, Passing on Invitations, Traveling With Dogs, and More

Nick: Do you use the wrong fork? Do you take advantage of strangers? Do you not recognize old friends? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Oh, I always get a little stressed, 'cause I know I'm about to not do something correctly.

Nick: [laughs] So for today's amuse bouche, I want to talk about using the right fork.

Leah: Now we know I'm gonna be wrong. Thank goodness I have seen Pretty Woman.

Nick: [laughs] So exactly. And people get in a tizzy about the fork thing. And Miss Manners actually calls it "The great fork problem."

Leah: Ooh!

Nick: And the problem is not that people don't know what fork to use. She says the problem is that people use this thing as proof that etiquette is quote, "A deliberate booby trap set by the snobbish to catch the unsuspecting, which then makes people feel like they can ridicule the entire topic of etiquette."

Leah: Mmm, I like that very much because I do feel like it is that area in etiquette where you're like, "Oh, this is to make me feel bad about myself."

Nick: Right. And also, like, oh, it's complicated, it's arbitrary, which means all of etiquette is arbitrary and doesn't apply to our modern lives. And, like, why should we care? Like, etiquette is this old thing that doesn't apply to me.

Leah: So you could be like, "I don't do forks, but I do hold doors."

Nick: Well, so Miss Manners does go on to say, though, that the defenders of etiquette—so that's us—also contribute to the great fork problem.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Because we often do say and use it as an example that manners is about being considerate of others and not what fork to use. And so, like, we're guilty of sort of perpetuating the great fork problem.

Leah: I literally just said that. I said, "I don't care what fork you use, just hold the door."

Nick: Right. Yeah. So I mean, amazing that Miss Manners has called us out on this. [laughs]

Leah: Or maybe we just genuinely disagree with Miss Manners.

Nick: Well, which we're allowed to do. There have been times when we have done this, but I think she does make a good point that the fork thing is a little silly.

Nick: Oh, no, but that's what I'm saying. It's silly.

Nick: Well, no. Throwing up your hands and saying, like, "Oh, forks are complicated. We don't know what fork to use," that's the silly thing because forks actually are not complicated at all. And so today I just want to explain what fork to use.

Leah: Okay.

Leah: So, Leah, do you know—do you know what fork to use? Do you know what the rule is?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. Which fork do we use?

Leah: I'm gonna work out to in.

Nick: Yeah. Bingo. That's the whole thing. Yes, you always just use the fork that's the farthest from the side of the plate. That's it. That's the whole thing. Why this became a thing, I don't know. But, like, that's it. That's, like, the entire thing. And in general, the whole point of having things on the table is to give diners the things that they need to eat with, to make a minimal amount of mess in the order in which they will need them. And so that's why we go outside in because we just are always using the outermost thing. And you just said it in order. That's the—that's it.

Leah: I mean, it makes logical sense.

Nick: And the reason why forks are on the left and spoons and knives are on the right is that those are the sides in which we would be grabbing them if we're right handed and we're dining continental. Like, we would use the fork in the left hand and the knife goes in the right hand and, like, oh, all the forks are already there on the side that I need them. And so, like, that makes sense.

Leah: Sure.

Nick: And you don't have things on the table that we're not gonna use. So, like, if you're not having oysters tonight, there's not gonna be an oyster fork. And, like, oh, what do we do about the soup? What do we eat with? Well, you use the spoon.

Nick: And actually Miss Manners says, "You use the spoon, dummy." She actually says "dummy." She actually says "dummy." Yes. And there might be a fish course, a meat course, a salad course, and each one of those will be in the right order, and it'll just be the farthest one out. And if there's more courses than that, then that will be brought out with that course, you will never see more than three forks or three knives or three spoons out at one time.

Leah: Well, it would just be also so long, your place setting would be—we'd have to get rid of place settings at the table.

Nick: Well, you actually do see ridiculous photos circulating on the internet, which is like, oh, this is formal dining, and it has 9,000 forks all lined up. And it's sort of like, that's not a thing. It's not a thing. No one actually sets the table this way.

Leah: I mean, as a long time cater waiter, I definitely never set a table that way.

Nick: Good. Well, that you're doing it right.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And—and actually, in very strict formal service, the dessert fork and spoon, that's gonna come with the dessert at the end. So that's not even gonna be on the table, so we don't even have to worry about that.

Leah: No, and I love it when that dessert fork comes with that dessert. You're like, "Here we go!"

Nick: Right. After the finger bowls, of course.

Leah: Oh, of course.

Nick: Of course! And let's talk about some troubleshooting. So did you use the wrong fork for your fish? Well, you know, is it gonna kill you to eat a salad with a fish fork? No, you're not gonna die, and probably no one's gonna notice. And so, like, whatever.

Leah: Well, that's what I'm saying. And also, I was like, "Oh, my goodness! Did you just use your fish fork on the salad? I'm no longer your friend, and I'm gonna talk about you."

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: That's where I think it's silly. That's where I'm like ...

Nick: Well ...

Leah: ... whoever thinks that way, they need to see themselves out. They're missing the manners part.

Nick: Well, we would never call them out, but you're welcome to tell me privately about what happened.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] But let's not end a friendship over it. But yeah, let's gossip. Yeah.

Leah: Let's gossip that she used her salad on her fish?

Nick: Honestly, I would not even notice. I was at a wedding once where apparently the forks were in the wrong order, or the forks actually I think were on the right side of the plate and not the left. It didn't hit my radar at all. It was just like, oh, we're just having a nice time. Like, who cares? But also it was like, if there were forks, that's a win. Oh, there's a fork here for me. That's great.

Leah: That's how I feel. Can I get food into my mouth? Amazing!

Nick: Amazing. Yeah. Hear hear to that. Now Miss Manners says quote, "I will let you in on a little secret of correcting mistakes—if you promise not to tell anyone she said so—lick clean the wrong fork you have just used and slip it back onto the tablecloth while no one is looking."

Leah: I think that's really the story of my whole life.

Nick: Yeah, I'm including that because I thought that would resonate for you.

Leah: You are absolutely correct. That resonates deeply.

Nick: [laughs] But just to summarize: let's not talk about etiquette as being related to what fork to use. I think let's just end that now. It just—it's not a topic. Let's end the great fork problem here.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Okay? I don't know if you sound convinced.

Leah: No, I don't think it's—I do think it's—we're working out to in is very clear.

Nick: Yes, it is not complicated.

Leah: I do understand why people feel like somehow it's not about them, and so they get anxious.

Nick: Yes, I can see that if you didn't know this simple rule that maybe there would be some anxiety., but here we are.

Leah: And you feel like everybody's going to think you're an imposter and you know—and you know, you have a My Fair Lady situation. I get it!

Nick: Yeah. No, I get it. But I mean, I think we now have resolved it because the rules are very easy. Now setting a table as a host? Okay. more to talk about. And there would be some do's and don'ts we might get into. Fine. But as a guest, just use what you got on the table—outside in, whatever that is—and you're good.

Leah: And then lick it clean if you use the wrong one or—unless it's your neighbor's, and then don't do that.

Nick: Okay. I don't think Miss Manners anticipated that.

Leah: You're like, is Leah licking ...

Nick: It's a good tip.

Leah: ... licking clean her neighbor's forks?

Nick: And then giving it back?

Leah: And then giving it back?

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Simple, easy. Great. It's solved.

Nick: Solved. Yes. The great fork problem has ended.

Leah: I can't believe that she said "dummy."

Nick: Right? I mean, bold move. Would we even say that she's rude? I feel like that's a little rude.

Leah: I would say hurtful.

Nick: It's a little provocative. A little provocative.

Leah: Provocative.

Nick: But to her credit, I think this really does make her very upset, this fork problem. And so I think there's just a lot of built up anger here, and I think this is how it manifests in calling people ...

Leah: She's a little passionate—by calling people dumb, you know?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, that's her strategy. I don't agree with it. But, you know, we all gotta put it somewhere.

Leah: Isn't that just so her? Call back!

Nick: [laughs] Nicely done.

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and suspect.

Nick: That's right. So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about scams. And this was prompted by a question we got from one of you, which is quote, "Today I received a message from a number I didn't recognize. It didn't look like spam, so I asked who they were. It seemed to just be a case of wrong number, and when the person apologized, I let them know it was an easy mistake to make. They then invited me to dinner if I was ever in the Boston area as an apology. Since I don't live anywhere near Boston, I let them know this and that I wasn't bothered. They then reintroduced themselves and asked me my name. I'm not sure what the etiquette is for this situation. I'd assumed the person would stop messaging me after I'd let them know I wasn't who they wanted to text originally. I am also a little wary that this might actually be a scam message as most random number messages are nowadays, and I don't feel comfortable giving a stranger my name. How do I politely let them know I'm not interested in any further messages?"

Leah: I'm so glad this person wrote in because I think this is such a big topic specifically for us because I think people are—there are so many scams right now, and they're taking advantage of people's politeness. And there are new and unique ways in which they're getting into relationships with people and getting information out of people. And a person who wants to be nice and polite and friendly has to say no so many times that it feels uncomfortable, or just block the whole conversation.

Nick: Yes. And I think just as our top line reminder: health and safety always trumps etiquette. And there's definitely a potential safety issue here, for sure. So I feel like we just want to keep that in mind that, like, normal etiquette rules actually don't apply here. But it's hard. It is hard to be rude. And the whole way this scam works is that it is counting on you having a hard time being rude.

Leah: I 100 percent agree. And they're—they're just chipping away at little amounts of information, and trying to create this friendly thing where you feel like you have to be friendly back. So they're literally living off people's wanting to be polite and friendly.

Nick: For sure. Yes. I mean, that's the idea of, like, reciprocation: when people give you a little something, give you attention, give you compliments.

Leah: Give you an invite to dinner as an apology. "If you're in the Boston area, where are you at?"

Nick: It makes you then feel like you have to reciprocate that and give them something. And that's—that's the whole thing. Like, relatedly, when a restaurant gives you mints at the end with the bill, they have shown that, like, oh, they gave you some mints, people do tip more because they're like, "Oh, I got some mints. And so I'm a little indebted now." And that has been shown to boost tips. And so the similar psychological process is at play here.

Leah: And I do think—I'm very glad that our letter-writer sent this in because I think this is happening everywhere. And I also think that a part of politeness is that people don't talk about it. They keep it to themselves, and so Nick and I are happy to talk about it.

Nick: Delighted to. Yes.

Leah: I also think this kind of—what's interesting now is that these people who are pushing friendships and politeness, they're coming at people from so many different ways now that it's not just a hey, I'm getting a phone call asking for something or a link where you click it and it looks like your bank. These are more people who are specifically preying on one's need to be kind. Like, I recently had a cousin who was on a dating app, and they were going back and forth. They were messaging. They talked on the phone. This person had a lovely Southern accent to mix with the job they said they had. And then they were on a cruise ship and they got stuck, and can this person please loan them some money. And then that made my friend and cousin feel I want to help out. I want to be friendly. I'm sure that, you know—and it's on a dating app. So I feel like they're just finding places where you feel the need to be open and polite.

Nick: For sure.

Leah: Because a lot of us have trouble just blocking. Like, the way to handle it really is to just block this number.

Nick: Yeah. Oh I mean, the response here is, like, no response.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Etiquette does not require you to respond to strangers over texts like this. We do not have any relationship with this person. You already said "Wrong number." That is the end of it. That is as much as you're required to do. Do you even need to do that? Some would say you don't even have to respond and even indicate that your number is valid. So that also—not responding at all? I mean, eventually they'll figure out it's not a correct number. But you were very polite, I guess, to let them know, and then you just block it. That's the end of it. Definitely we do not want to give them any personal information for sure because, like, this is not a cocktail party. This is not a colleague. This is not even somebody you're just chatting up at the line at the deli. Like, this is nobody. This is a stranger on the internet.

Leah: Also and I think what Nick said is very important, is that they're trying to establish a relationship to make it harder for you to shut the door.

Nick: Yes. And shutting the door is what is required. And for polite people, it's hard to slam a door in somebody's face. Like, we're not wired to do that, like, at all. And even somebody coming door to door, you know, selling encyclopedias, which is a thing that used to happen when we both had encyclopedias and people selling things door to door, you know, it is very difficult to say like, "Oh, I'm not interested in this thing," and then, like, close the door, because they are trained to try and keep that door open and take advantage of the fact that you will have a hard time slamming a door.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: But you just gotta slam the door. That's fine.

Leah: You could even just shut it gently. You could even—I mean, you could even do a "Wishing you all the best." Block.

Nick: Exactly. So I think we just need to be mindful. We just need to be mindful that there are people out there who are trying to take advantage of your niceness and your politeness and your good etiquette and your good manners, and it's unfortunate, but nothing we could do about it other than to know it's happening and nip it in the bud.

Leah: I think we can just block them or we can say, "No, thank you." Block.

Nick: Yeah, that's it. But I think we block at the end of the day.

Leah: No further engagement.

Nick: Yeah, let's not go down that road any further.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "I'm sitting in a restaurant having dinner with my husband, and the strangest thing has happened and I don't know what to do. I was just walking to the bathroom, and I passed a table and I saw an old friend of mine who had moved away from the area a few months ago. This is a woman I've known for 20 years and we're really good friends. When I saw her, I was really surprised. I leaned over to her and I put my hand on her shoulder and I said, 'Hey, Lisa,' with a huge smile on my face. I expected her to look at me and say hi and maybe jump up and give me a hug, but she just looked at me and said nothing. Then she looked at her dinner companion, and so I looked at her dinner companion and I smiled and I said hi to them. And then I looked back at her. She still said nothing, and it got awkward very quickly. I then said, 'Well, I'll see you later,' and I walked away. What is happening? I don't know what to do. Should I write her an email and ask her what happened? Should I do nothing and just consider that she is not my friend anymore? It was so strange and unexpected from such an old friend. I feel really weirded out. Please help!"

Leah: Oh, it feels like a dream, like a bad dream where you walk up to a group at a table that you know, and then they all look at you like they don't know you.

Nick: I mean, the best—the best we can hope for here is that this was not your friend.

Leah: I know. I was like, "Does Lisa have a twin?" Maybe she has a doppelganger somewhere. Because this seems ...

Nick: Right?

Leah: This seems wild!

Nick: Although, I mean, what are the chances that a woman who you've known for 20 years, who used to live in this area, is at a restaurant in your area and is, like, not the same woman, and you just are so confused. And you were so close to her, you had your hand on her shoulder, so you got a good look at her.

Leah: I mean, there's no way that our letter-writer's wrong and it's somebody else. I think we're just really hoping it's somebody else because this is ...

Nick: Well, because that's the only thing that makes sense. Because otherwise, what is Lisa's problem?

Leah: I mean, I can see how this would keep a person up at night because you were like ...

Nick: This is disturbing.

Leah: It's disturbing!

Nick: Because also it is your worst nightmare to go up to a stranger and, like, a table of people and, like, actually make that mistake. And I could see how that would, like, be crushing. It was like, "Oh, did I just make a fool of myself in front of strangers?"

Leah: Or like, "Am I not who I think I am? Did the whole world just change on its axis?"

Nick: Or, "What did I do to Lisa, who hates me now, who can't even acknowledge my presence?" I mean, this is the cut.

Leah: Oh, it is the cut.

Nick: This is a real life example of the cut. This is the cut direct.

Leah: And I just hate to decide this, but it just seems like Lisa, we've established that it's not a Lisa lookalike. That seems too improbable.

Nick: I mean, it's impossible. I feel like we could just take this off the table. Not a twin.

Leah: No, we were just hoping for a good ...

Nick: It's not somebody who's sort of like Lisa. No, this was Lisa.

Leah: So the only—is that Lisa is horrible.

Nick: Or Lisa just was so surprised and didn't know what to do and was in shock. I guess that's an explanation. Like, I just wasn't expecting to run into the letter-writer here and I just didn't know what to do and I just froze.

Leah: Okay, if I ran into you in, like, the San Diego Zoo where I—you're not normally there, you're not normally there, and then I saw you and you came over and you said, "Hey, Leah," my shock would last half a second. And then I'd go, "Oh, Nick!"

Nick: That would be pretty amazing if you did nothing.

Leah: And then I just stared with my dead eyes.

Nick: And you just stared blankly. [laughs] And I was like, "Well, nice seeing you at the zoo, Leah. See you later." So I think that we should send the real Lisa an email the next day, which is just like, "Hey, Lisa, did I see you at Biscuitville last night? Hope everything is going well for you wherever you are. All right, just was thinking of you." And then, like, leave it at that.

Leah: I feel that's a lovely ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I think that's lovely.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I see why that would be the answer. But I do want to say, like, our letter-writer is in the right here.

Nick: Yes, but I mean, has a crime been committed? I think we have not confirmed that. Was this a malicious act?

Leah: What other ...

Nick: I'm just taking a Leah Bonnema benefit of the doubt.

Leah: No, I appreciate that, but I think we could benefit the doubt it by being like, "Hey, Lisa, I think I saw you last night at—" what did you say, Biscuit Queens?

Nick: Biscuitville!

Leah: Biscuitville.

Nick: Yeah, it's a real place. Yeah. It's, like, in North Carolina, Virginia, South Carolina. Yeah, biscuits.

Leah: "I think I saw you at Biscuitville and I went to say hi, but you didn't seem to recognize me. I was wondering if something happened that I didn't know about."

Nick: Oh, okay. We want to go there. So we are taking off the table the idea of, oh, maybe it wasn't Lisa, or giving her an out if it was Lisa, but we want to allow her to save face, but we want to just go straight to the polite-yet-direct, which is like, "Hey, I saw you at Biscuitville and you didn't say hi back. And so what's up?"

Leah: Yes.

Nick: We just want to go to that.

Leah: Well, we're saying "I'm pretty sure I saw you," so I'm giving you the little bit in between pretty sure and totally sure.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: "You may have a twin. I'm pretty sure I saw you. I went to say hi, you didn't say hi back. Wondering what was up."

Nick: Okay. And I guess we would give her the opportunity to explain herself.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Yeah, because I do want an explanation.

Leah: I want an explanation.

Nick: Now what if Lisa is like, "Oh, I wasn't at Biscuitville last night?"

Leah: Then I think we would feel so relieved. And then—and then also just like, "Oh, no!"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: But also, at least something didn't happen with Lisa that I'm—I'm not aware of.

Nick: Right.

Leah: I've also had people come up to me and think I was somebody else, and you know what I said? "I think you have the wrong person."

Nick: Yes. Oh, this happened to me yesterday. Somebody was like, "Dan?" And I was like, "No, I'm not Dan." And that was the end of that.

Leah: That's the end of it. You just—you respond to another person.

Nick: Yes. "Oh, I'm not this person. But hello."

Leah: That's why there's nothing. This person did nothing.

Nick: Yeah, I think the rude thing here is that Lisa didn't do anything. That's what's rude. There was no response.

Leah: No response. It's like treating our letter-writer like they don't exist, which is horrible.

Nick: Well, I mean, is this the Sixth Sense? Spoiler alert!

Leah: Well, that's what it is.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: You're like, "Am I in a nightmare?"

Nick: Yeah. So I would love some follow up on this. I definitely need some aftermath. So letter-writer, please reach out to Lisa and let us know what happened here. What happened?

Leah: Please let us know. And then if Lisa doesn't write back, we're gonna have to assume that Lisa has been body snatched and somebody else is—there's an alien in Lisa.

Nick: Yeah, at Biscuitville.

Leah: And this is the beginning of the takeover at Biscuitville, which I would like to rename Biscuit Queen because that sounds like a good time.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So our next question is quote, "I have a dear friend who declines invitations by replying that the activity is something she is quote, 'not interested in,' or quote, 'doesn't like.' She usually ends the response saying, 'I'm going to pass at this time, but thanks for inviting me.' I feel a bit insulted that she has harshly judged something that I clearly enjoy. I wouldn't want her to accept an invitation to an event or activity that she finds unpleasant or boring. I can accept that, no problem. But my inclination is to leave that part out when sending regrets so as to not offend. Am I being too sensitive that my friend does not edit her responses in this way?"

Leah: I will say I know people who I'll say, "Hey, I'm going to this Lord of the Rings marathon. You know I love it. Do you want to come?" And then I have friends who go, "I hate Lord of the Rings."

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: You're like, I'm not sure if you needed to take a poo-poo parade all over something I love. You could have just been like, "Oh, thanks so much for the invite, but I can't go." I get that being like, why did you have to just say how much you disliked this thing that I clearly like?

Nick: Yes. The general etiquette rule is that when we decline invitations, we do not give excuses or explanations. We're just like, "Unfortunately, I can't make it. But thank you so much for thinking of me." And that's it. And we just leave it at that.

Leah: And then if I was a person who was like, "Oh, but why aren't you coming?" And then I didn't respect their response, then I think that person can be like, "You know I don't like it." And I walked into it because I pushed.

Nick: Yes. I mean, it is also, generally speaking, rude to ask somebody why they have declined an event.

Leah: Definitely.

Nick: But if they do, well then I guess you can say, "Yes, this is the reason," if you want to be honest about it.

Leah: So I think that we're doing our etiquette dance where you just say, "I can't go," and I go, "Okay."

Nick: Now the phrase, "I'm gonna pass," I really don't like this phrase.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: And people use it a lot. And I don't like it professionally. I mean, in the entertainment biz, I have heard "pass" many times and I don't love it. I don't love hearing it that, like, somebody is not interested in my project, and it's like, "Oh, we're gonna pass." It's like, oh, there are so many other ways to say that.

Leah: Well, they also say, "I'm gonna pass at this time," because I think they think they're leaving it open. They think they're not being—a rejection word. They're just sliding over. They're sliding over. But I agree with you, I don't like it either.

Nick: No, I don't like the phrasing at all because, like, the better thing to say would be like, "This is not the right fit for us right now, but thank you so much." That's also vague. That's also a pass. But, like, that just doesn't sting as much as, like, "Pass." Because "Pass" is judgmental. There's no way to pass on something that doesn't include judgment. We're passing because we don't want to. There's no other reason why we pass. It's just like, "Oh, I don't care for this. I don't want to." It's elective.

Leah: I agree with you.

Nick: Rather than like, "I'm busy," or "I'm unavailable," or any of the other things. Or, "It's not a good fit." It's just like, "Oh, I've just decided I have better things."

Leah: And it also feels like very I'm up here on this high chair and you're down here.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And I'm, like, giving you a one out of ten as a judge. And I'm like, "Pass." It comes with, like, a noise to it. "Pass."

Nick: Yes. It's a little—there is that flavor to it and yeah, don't care for it. So I don't like it in a business context. Personal? It is not something I think we should be using in a personal context when we're rejecting an invitation to something or—just I don't love it.

Leah: I 100 percent agree with you. I don't love it either.

Nick: Yeah, it's just like, "Oh, would you like some mashed potatoes?" I'll pass. It's like, "Mmm." And I was trying to think, like, oh, is there a tone which we could use "I'll pass" and it sounds fine? And I was like, "No, there's actually no tone we can use that doesn't make it sound, like, dismissive and rude.

Leah: Unless that's what you're going for, and then you've nailed it.

Nick: Oh! Well, etiquette is just a form of communication, so if you want to send that signal and that's what you want to communicate, well then this is great. Yeah. Just make a conscious choice.

Leah: Yeah, you could say, "Well then I'm gonna pass on inviting you to things in the future."

Nick: So yes letter-writer, it is a little rude to give you reasons which are sort of judgmental for why somebody doesn't want to do something. And just to add for good measure, like, "Oh, I'm gonna pass at this time."

Leah: But does our letter-writer—I think our letter-writer wants to know also is it okay for her to say to her friend, "Can you stop saying that?"

Nick: Yeah, I think you can have a polite-yet-direct conversation about a better way to decline invitations, which is like, "Hey, no problem if you can't do something I invite you to, just let me know you can't. I don't necessarily need your reasons."

Leah: And I think I would say that to their face instead of over text, because text ...

Nick: Oh no, this is an in-person. Yeah.

Leah: Yeah, the text you really lose tone.

Nick: Oh yeah. No, because there would also maybe be a little conversation around it, because this person is not doing this maliciously.

Leah: Not at all.

Nick: I would hope. Like, this is just—they just think that "I'll pass," they think it's a polite phrase. I think a lot of people do think this is a very polite or neutral phrase.

Leah: I think so, too.

Nick: And I don't think people realize, like, oh, this does not come across to many people as neutral or polite.

Leah: And I think even because it's our friend, we can explain why it makes us feel bad. Like, "Hey, this is something I love so you don't have to tell me that you don't like it. I'm cool if you just don't want to come. It makes me feel bad."

Nick: Right. And stop saying "I'll pass." Just say you're not feeling well. [laughs]

Leah: And you can stop saying "I'll pass" because it really upsets Nick. And ...

Nick: Yeah, it just—I'll fall on that sword. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Don't talk in elevators and just don't pass.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Those are my only two requests in the world.

Leah: I mean, are they your only two, Nick?

Nick: That's it. That's it, Leah, Just those two.

Leah: And stop cutting your nails on the subway.

Nick: Oh, or anywhere.

Leah: Or anywhere ever.

Nick: Yeah. Right. [laughs] Yeah. And also, stop using your cell phone in places they don't belong.

Leah: But that's it.

Nick: Stop eating food in theaters. Yeah. And also, like, stop having your voicemail box full after making me call you back.

Leah: What is happening with that? That's happened to me multiple times this week.

Nick: Is that not outrageous? Yeah, it's just like the number of people I've had to text and be like, "Hey, replying to your phone call. Your voicemail box is full." It's like, what is happening?

Leah: I don't understand what's happening.

Nick: I have lots of voicemail in my iPhone. Maybe these are different devices. Like, how many voicemails do you have? I don't know.

Leah: I don't know.

Nick: Anyway ...

Leah: I just wanted to point out that it's maybe not just two. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Fair enough. Okay, maybe I have a slightly longer list, but definitely this is on it. This is on the list. So do you have things for the list? Let us know! You can let us know through our website, Were YouRaised ByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call, Vent or Repent!

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently. Or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I would like to say that I had a repent ...

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: But I just went in and fixed the situation.

Nick: Oh, okay. All right. So you nullified it?

Leah: Yeah, I nullified it because I just went to them and I said, "Hey, did I read this wrong?" That way I didn't have to live in this ...

Nick: Oh, but then our content opportunity has been lost.

Leah: And then because I fixed it, I have to do a vent.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: All right, so what's happened?

Leah: So yet again on a plane. Here we are back on an airplane.

Nick: Here we are.

Leah: Some people on Instagram may have seen this photo. I'm in my seat. So the person behind me was very tall, which I can imagine they're super uncomfortable. So I wasn't really bothered. Their legs passed me. I'm on the aisle seat, so how I have to get out, I have to get over their legs.

Nick: Wait, they're so tall that they're going from their seat behind you.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And their legs are extending past your seat and blocking part of the aisle that you need?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Wow! They are tall.

Leah: They're very tall. And I can imagine that it's hard to travel. So ...

Nick: For sure. [laughs]

Leah: And they were—they were very aware of moving their feet, so that's fine. Also, right in front of me, there was a person who had three seats. They slept across a seat. Their legs were out in the aisle. So I am in a jail of others' legs.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Yeah, a lot of feet.

Leah: A lot of feet. And I was like, whatever. I mean, it's not—I'm not gonna—then so I have my dog with me, I have Lacey Jane.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: So I'm surrounded by legs, which I think if I was a flight attendant, that would be the red flag. There was like four legs in the aisle.

Nick: Yeah, that feels not good for egress.

Leah: Yes. Lacey's nose—I unzipped—I like to keep her nose unzipped sometimes, and I give her a little itchy under the chin. "Hey, babe. How you doing?" Her nose is sticking out of the bag. That's it.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I get up to get coffee. I come back, so I have two coffees in my hand. No lid. They didn't give me a lid.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: The flight attendant comes over and she's like, "You gotta zip that dog back up." I was like, "It's literally just the tip of her nose." But she's upset about it. Fine. But I can't get past the four legs.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: She's not mentioning the legs. She then is, like, getting worked up about it, so I recognize okay, this is a person who hates dogs. But I can't get over the legs. And she's talking and she won't hold the coffees for me. So then—and she's stepping into me and what is this, two feet? So I back up to try to get into my seat. I fall over the legs.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: I dump the coffee on all the legs.

Nick: Oh, my goodness!

Leah: All the legs are now covered in coffee.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: And she's just talking about the dog. And I go, "I just spilled coffee all over everybody. So can we handle this situation, and I will zip up ..."

Nick: Yeah, we'll get there.

Leah: "I will zip it up the whole way." But ...

Nick: Wow!

Leah: ... you have just—I'm burning people.

Nick: [laughs] Right.

Leah: I'm falling over legs because they're in the aisle, and you're making a big deal about a dog that's under the seat with just the nose sticking out. Like, I think tree for the woods.

Nick: Wow! Oh, my goodness. Okay, so a lot just happened.

Leah: She basically backed me into the seat, where I couldn't sit down because there were legs in front of it, so I kind of had to fall back holding coffee. She didn't hold the coffee. The guy whose legs I spilled it on was very nice. He was trying to clean up. We're all now trying to clean up, and she's just like—I go, "I can't zip the bag up with something in my hands. So you either have to take the coffee ..."

Nick: Yeah, let's problem solve this.

Leah: Let's—what's happening right now?

Nick: What is happening? Yes, I think this was not the optimal way to handle any of this.

Leah: Not at all. And I understand people, there are some people that don't like dogs but, like, Lacey was in the bag. I'm telling you, it's just her little cute—little cute black nose sticking out.

Nick: Okay. I mean, I get that the rule is whatever the rule is about dogs in their carriers, and that has to be zipped up. And if that's what the rule is, okay, let's follow the rules. Fine. But it does feel like when we're thinking about how you were going to achieve this request, which you were happy to comply ...

Leah: Actively working against me.

Nick: And then, like, going out of the way to make it really hard for you to do that, and then being upset when, like, oh now we have this chaotic scene that has now unfolded with legs and legs that are now wet with coffee and, like, oh, what is happening? Yeah. No, I can see that this is not—this is not great. This is very frustrating.

Leah: But also I'm a rule follower, you know?

Nick: Oh, for sure.

Leah: Lacey was not walking up and down the aisle. She's not in the seat. She's not even half out of the bag. You had to look really hard to see her nose. Also, if what you are is a rule follower, maybe let's deal with these four legs.

Nick: I mean, yeah. Are there rules about people just, like, just hanging out in the aisle?

Leah: Or maybe give coffee with lids on it? How did this become the big issue to the fact that you walked me backwards into my seat? I fell. You don't apologize or help with the coffee.

Nick: Oh, you were not gonna get an apology from this person.

Leah: Me and Lgs are all trying to deal with this situation.

Nick: Although I have not been on any airplanes where they have lids for coffee. Am I on the wrong airplanes? Is that normally a thing?

Leah: I'm just saying if you want to be able to walk people backwards with coffee, you better secure those coffees.

Nick: Fair enough. Yes. Sippy cups for everybody. So—well, I'm sorry this happened to you.

Leah: I just thought it was wild!

Nick: Well, for me, I would also like to vent.

Leah: [laughs] Stop!

Nick: And so, as everybody knows, I was in London recently, and I had a great breakfast at Claridge's with William Hanson, who is the etiquette expert in the UK. And as we're enjoying our nice breakfast, there is a woman who is on her phone the entire time yelling loudly to some financial institution about some banking problem.

Leah: Oh, wow!

Nick: And this woman is, like, two feet away. And it's Claridge's, which is, like, definitely a fancy-schmancy hotel. And this is definitely like, if there could have been a harp, there would have been a harp at the breakfast. I mean, it is that type of dining room that would have had a harpist. Maybe they were just off on a Monday, but it's like that's the vibe. And so, like, yelling at your bank about something is like not the vibe.

Nick: And so William and I obviously, like, make eye contact about this and it's like, "What is this woman doing?" And so William actually leaves the table for a moment, and the woman leans over to me and is like, "Oh, is that the etiquette guy?" And I was like, "Yes. Yes, that is." And I did that in a way which was like, oh, that will be the end of this conversation. Like, I'll answer your question, but like, we're not gonna be having a whole chat here.

Nick: But she didn't take the hint, and she then proceeded to tell me all about how she just moved to London and she was having trouble with her banking. And then William comes back, and then she proceeds to, like, want to talk to him about how she recognizes him from something he's been on, like some television thing. And that goes on forever. And he's being very polite and gracious about it but, like, it's really hard to cut her off. And then she explains that she was just at Chanel yesterday and spent $1,000, and so why is her credit card turned off today? Because, like, she can afford to buy $1,000 purses at Chanel and, like, isn't that ridiculous? And trying to loop us in on this. And it's sort of like, no, no, no, this is not—we're not part of this. And, like, I have a croissant here that I need to eat and, like, you're preventing me from doing that. So eventually we got her to sort of like, end it and, like, for us to all go back to our respective breakfasts. But this was very long. This was a very long conversation, way longer than it needed to be, and way more oversharing than is appropriate.

Leah: Oh, it's so wild when you get looped in and you're like, when is this gonna stop? I have no way out. What are they doing? I'm hostage! You're hostage!

Nick: Yeah. I mean, the number of times I was just like, "Well, so nice chatting with you. Hope you have a great rest of your breakfast." I mean, how many variations of that did I say? But she just bulldozed through all of it.

Leah: Wow!

Nick: Right?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And not that it matters, but she was American. And I think because I'm American and, like, oh, we're all Americans together so, like, we have that in common. So therefore, like, let's talk about our banking problem, like friends. Like, maybe that's what it was. And it's kind of like, oh, no, that's not how that works.

Leah: It's like when you're like, "You know. We're all—we all feel the same way. Let's collectively ..."

Nick: Right. Yeah. No, don't rope me into whatever that is. Yeah. I don't have anything to do with that.

Leah: Yeah, the roping is the worst.

Nick: That is—it is the worst. So I don't love that this happened, and hopefully it won't happen again.

Leah: But what a person to go through it with, though. I mean ...

Nick: Oh yes, it was great to be at the table with William because, like, there's nobody else on the planet who I think gets it the way I get it. And, like, we didn't have to say anything. It was just like, oh, we—we just understand. We get—we get what just happened. and we understand why it was such a problem and what is there to say?

Leah: What is there to say? Let's go to the croissant.

Nick: [laughs] Yes, we are kindred etiquette spirits in this way.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So good croissant, though. I will say, great croissant.

Leah: I heard the harps.

Nick: [laughs] Yes.

Leah: I need to add something really quickly.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: For our listeners at home—and I'm not saying this because she's my dog, I'm saying this—so for the full story, Lacey is the best flyer. She is so quiet, she never makes a sound. She curls up into this little—you said croissant, it's what made me think of it. She curls up into this little croissant. I call her my croissant.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: She just sits there. She's so quiet. She doesn't make a sound. She stays in the bag. She's a good girl. You know, she's just a complete angel. And it's not like she was being a problem dog, and they were like, "Okay, let's deal with this wild woman with her wild dog." She was tucked away so cute and perfect.

Nick: Yeah, I think there's just a lot happening at once, and it just sort of became unmanageable. And it's unfortunate that it unfolded the way it did, but hopefully we've all learned something.

Leah: Mmm! I don't know what it was.

Nick: [laughs] Well, I guess bring your own coffee. I think that's the lesson.

Leah: Bring my own coffee, and don't let somebody walk you backwards over legs because you're gonna fall and then nobody's gonna help you.

Nick: Or don't fly commercial.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I think that's really the lesson, Leah.

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned that I'm never going to use the phrase "I'm gonna pass on that."

Nick: Not with me.

Leah: Not with you.

Nick: Right. Thank you. And I learned that you didn't know what Biscuitville was.

Leah: I definitely did not. And I'm probably gonna continue to refer to it as—and no disrespect to Biscuitville—Biscuit Queens just really sits nicely in my mouth.

Nick: [laughs] I mean, so do the biscuits.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we have a new thing: EtiquetteCrime.com, where if you are a victim or a witness to an etiquette crime out there, just go to EtiquetteCrime.com and file a report.

Leah: I think it's such a fun idea. Yay, Nick!

Nick: Yeah!

Leah: That people can—I'm filing a report on this.

Nick: Oh, my goodness. Oh, it's great. People are already sending us reports. They're the best. So please send those in, and we'll see you next time!

Leah: May I just say, I imagine that when we read them, we have like a traffic hat on, or some sort of an outfit where we are etiquette crime—maybe like, I imagine like a British, you know, they have those ...

Nick: Oh, no. A trench coat. Yeah.

Leah: Oh, we're etiquette crime detectives.

Nick: Oh, yeah. No, Columbo.

Leah: Oh, okay.

Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. "Just one more thing, ma'am."

Leah: I own that jacket, so I'm in.

Nick: You're ready to roll.

Leah: I'm ready to roll.

Nick: Okay, that's what we're doing. So EtiquetteCrime.com. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah, It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: So I was in Maine with Dustin and Lacey, and Dustin and Lacey were playing. They were running around, and Dustin's phone must have fallen out of his pocket. And then we went out on the trails, and I started getting these texts from Dustin's friend, and they said, "Hey, I think Dustin dropped his phone."

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And they screenshotted this message that whoever found the phone—I don't know how the phone was open, but they somehow went to his last text, which was like a group message and said, "Hey, if you know the person whose phone this is, they dropped the phone at the Mahoosuc Land Trust, and I'm putting it at the Welcome Center on top of the donation box."

Nick: Wow!

Leah: And then so everybody just messaged me and they were like, "Hey, Dustin dropped his phone." And then we went back and found it. And I just wanted—what a lovely thing to do. What a great idea. And I really appreciate this person.

Nick: Amazing! I mean, am a little concerned about the security settings that we're using, but I like the outcome.

Leah: I don't even know how his phone wasn't locked because it's always locked. But I mean, whatever magic happened ...

Nick: [laughs] Okay, so some nice Samaritan hacked the phone.

Leah: Hacked the phone.

Nick: And then sent a text message. I mean, what a nice thing!

Leah: I mean, lovely!

Nick: And for me, we got a lovely email, which is this: "I'm convinced your podcast is making me a better person. I've been listening for about a year, and I feel more confident to recognize rudeness and good manners. For example, some neighbors invited friends for hot dogs for the kids and drinks in the driveway for grown ups. After work, I got a text from some other neighbors asking us to hang out. Before your podcast, I would have told the second couple to join us, knowing it would be casual, but now I made sure to ask permission before inviting the second couple. It may seem minor, but you're helping me be more mindful. Thank you so much!"

Leah: That is so lovely!

Nick: Isn't that nice? So, like, we got one. Only 7.999 billion to go. [laughs]

Leah: I mean, it's so lovely to think that we are having an effect on people feeling good.

Nick: That is really lovely. Yeah, because we do our show, and we kind of send it out into the universe and we hope for the best. So it is nice to hear back that oh, this is actually doing something for somebody.

Leah: I really appreciate that. Thank you.

Nick: Yeah, thank you. This makes my day.