Thanking Emperors for Tea, Traveling With Pets, Stealing Wipes at the Gym, and More

Nick: Do you blow the cover of Chinese emperors? Do you face the wrong way in elevators? Do you bail on pizza parties? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: [singing] Oh, I'm so nervous and excited at the same time.

Nick: So for today's amuse-bouche, I want to take you to China. Huānyíng lái dào zhōngguó. Let's go to Hong Kong.

Leah: Let's go!

Nick: Okay. And so actually, let's have tea. Leah, let's have some tea. What kind of tea do you like? What's, like, your favorite Chinese tea?

Leah: Um, well, I always just get the same tea wherever I am.

Nick: Okay? Just tea. "I'll just have a tea, please."

Leah: I just get green tea.

Nick: Okay. Yeah, that's—I mean, that's classic. I like Mo Li, which is a jasmine-scented green tea. So if you're looking to, like, up your green tea game, that's a nice variation.

Leah: I'm gonna practice saying "Mo Li" and then I will try it.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So we are in Hong Kong, we are enjoying tea. We're in a tea parlor. And Leah, you are noticing that all the people around us, as tea is being poured, they are tapping their fingers on the table. Why are they doing this?

Leah: Um, I would probably join in.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Just—I just want to throw that out to be like, "Is this what I'm supposed to be doing? I'm gonna tap?"

Nick: I mean, that's a very good etiquette approach to be like, "Oh, I should do what other people are doing." Yeah, just their two fingers, like, their index finger, the middle finger, they're just, like, tapping on the table. Yeah.

Leah: I would join in.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: It would be hard for me not to start the beginning of "We Will Rock You."

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Boom boom boom. But I would just go with the beat that everybody else is doing.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then I would probably lean to somebody and say, "What does this mean?"

Nick: Okay. And what do you think it is? Are we being impatient? Is this to say when to stop pouring? Is this to say pour faster? What is this?

Leah: Oh, they're doing it while people are pouring? I thought you meant we as a group.

Nick: Yeah, it's happening while pouring is happening. Or, like, right after.

Leah: I mean, it's really a limitless amount of guess, so I—guesses. So I feel like you should probably just—I mean, I don't think it's people being impatient. I'm gonna take that off the table.

Nick: Right. I mean, that's a little aggressive, right? True.

Leah: That seems very aggressive.

Nick: So many people in this tea parlor being, like, "Pour faster!"

Leah: [laughs] Yeah.

Nick: "Pour faster!"

Leah: That seems wrong. So I'm just gonna wait for you to tell me. [laughs]

Nick: So what this is is an informal way to say 'Thank you.'

Leah: Oh, I love that!

Nick: So a little history. So is this story true? Ah, I mean, it might be. It might be, but it's a legend, and it's the story that you hear for why this has happened. So in the Qing dynasty, there was the emperor Qianlong. He ruled for, like, most of the 1700s—60 years, most of the 1700s, he was your guy. And he liked to dress as a commoner and take tours of his kingdom to see, like, how the people were living. It was like Undercover Boss.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And so he would do this with, like, his ministers, but he would, like, dress as, like, a merchant or like a wealthy guy but, like, not the emperor. And so the legend goes that he was in a tea parlor, and he was having tea with his ministers, and for whatever reason, he decided to pour the tea for them. Which emperors don't pour their own tea. Like, that's not a thing. But, like, he was a cool guy, I guess. And so he wanted to pour the tea, and the ministers were like, "Um, we would need to, like, kowtow when an emperor is pouring us tea. Like, we would need to get on the ground, and we would need to, like, bow all the way down, forehead touching the ground." Like, that's a huge honor to have the emperor of China pouring you tea. And so what the ministers did because, like, we can't blow this guy's cover, like, he is undercover, he is the emperor, like, we can't let people know that the emperor is in this tea house, what one of the ministers did was he took his fingers and he did, like, a little finger kowtow on the table. Just a little tap, like, "Oh, I'm bowing down with my fingers. Just a little signal. You know, I'm trying to show respect, but I'm also trying to keep it cool." And so that's apparently where this comes from.

Nick: And so there's variations on how this gesture is done. So most common, universally, probably can't go wrong, is the two finger, the index finger and the middle finger, the tap. Two taps is fine. You see three maybe four, but it definitely should be, like, two or three. You also do see one finger, just the index finger. People do say, like, "Oh, you do that if the person pouring the tea is of a lower status, like a younger person maybe, or somebody junior in your office. So you do hear that as, like, an alternate gesture.

Nick: There's the three finger, which is more like the middle finger is your head, and then the two fingers on the side are, like, the body, the index finger and the ring finger like the body. And that's making more of, like, a kowtow, like, oh, I'm, like, really making the symbol. Some people say that's even more respectful. So you do that, like, to an elder, somebody more senior. And you do sometimes see the whole fist with the knuckles sort of down, and then all the knuckles sort of tapping the table. This is sort of like very respectful for some people. You do sometimes see that. You might do that to somebody, you know, very senior.

Nick: So there is a lot of variation, and it's very regional. Like this is definitely more of a Southern Chinese thing. This is less common in northern China. But, like, it's definitely a thing. It's definitely a thing. So I would just say two fingers, two taps? That's probably good. But if there's anybody doing more taps or a different gesture, then just, like, follow their lead.

Leah: That is so cool. I love a new way to say thank you.

Nick: Yes. And this is informal. Like, if you're in a quiet tea parlor and, like, we're not interrupting the conversation with this, like, you would just say thank you. Xièxiè. You would not necessarily, like, do this instead of saying thank you. It's pretty informal. And the idea is, like, oh, so it doesn't interrupt our conversation. Like, oh, we're talking. And I wanted to say thank you, but I want to keep talking. So it's like if I was gonna do the okay symbol. We're not gonna do the okay symbol in place of saying thank you. That would just be sort of like a oh, I'm across the room or, like, I don't want to interrupt the flow.

Leah: We're not gonna give the thumbs-up symbol.

Nick: Yeah. The thumbs up. Like, "Thank you!" Right. It's pretty informal.

Leah: Because we don't want everybody to know that the emperor's in—which I love that story. And I'm just gonna assume that's fact because it's perfect and I love it.

Nick: I mean, it's good enough for me.

Leah: Good enough for me. Xièxiè.

Nick: Bù kèqì.

Leah: Tap tap.

Nick: Tap tap.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and on a plane. Or maybe a bus.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette comes courtesy of Leah's life.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And Leah wants to talk about traveling with pets. Traveling with pets.

Leah: Traveling with pets, because I saw some things over my recent travels that as a pet-traveling woman, I thought, "Oh, no!" And then we actually got a question in.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: That I thought was a good jump off.

Nick: So that question is quote, "I love dogs. Unfortunately, there's been such a loss with dog etiquette that I'm slowly losing patience for other people's dogs, from dogs taking up couch spots at parties—literally causing people to stand—dogs roughhousing around the dining room table mid-meal, and most recently, my airplane seatmate taking her dog out for a mid-flight lap cuddle on the plane, with the dog shaking hair and dandruff into the air. I've about had it, but every time I run into these instances, I have trouble finding the right phrasing to tell the owner I'm not interested in loving their dog as much as they do. I've spoken up before in a polite way, but in return I get flack as a dog hater. How can I address these situations without seeming like a Cruella de Vil?"

Leah: I had a layover in Newark.

Nick: Fun!

Leah: They've actually redone the airport.

Nick: All right.

Leah: You wouldn't even know you were in Newark. I ...

Nick: Oh, I know I'm in Newark. [laughs]

Leah: ... go there. I had some sushi. Try it out. Terrific. That's a true story.

Nick: Airport sushi.

Leah: It was very good.

Nick: That's all I'm interested in.

Leah: [laughs] I like to roll the dice, to be honest. And ...

Nick: Oh, yeah. No, I want to have potentially questionable sushi and then get on an airplane. Oh, yeah, that's—that's what I'm interested in.

Leah: That's how I live. That's how I live. And there was a man with—his dog was out of the bag, which normally you're not supposed to do unless you have a—this is—let's just specify this is not for service animals. We're not talking about service animals.

Nick: Right.

Leah: We're talking about people traveling with pets as they're—what you do is you pay for your pet like it's a carry on, and they go under your seat.

Nick: Right. Yeah, this is not a service animal conversation. This is just like, oh, this is my small 10-pound Chihuahua that I'm traveling with. It's totally a pet.

Leah: Yes. So this man had his dog out of the bag, and they were going into an eating area, and the dog was just barking at everybody. And I thought, "Oh, no!" And then he made no move to correct the situation. And I was like, this is where we're getting all the bad press. This is—what is he doing? Yeah, you know what I mean? I was like, this is—I want to go over and be like, "You gotta—what are you doing right now? This is gonna affect all of us. You can't do that." So I recognize that there are non-following-rules dog owners out there.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Like, you can't have a dog out barking at people at the airport. That's not acceptable.

Nick: Right. So what are you supposed to do then, I guess is the question?

Leah: Well, I think unfort—you know, like, we took a class.

Nick: Oh, okay. There's, like, a class on, like, how to travel with your pet?

Leah: I think if you have a dog and you want to travel with your dog—which I understand you do, obviously I bring Lacey everywhere—it's polite to the people around you to not have a dog that's gonna bark in their face. And so we took a class, and also we practiced with Lacey, the bag in the—in the living room. So she's comfortable staying in the bag. And I do think that as a pet owner, some people are afraid of dogs, some people are allergic to dogs. Obviously, I'm a dog lover. If there was a plane full of dogs and they were all climbing on my face, I would pay extra for that. But my neighbor may not feel that way.

Nick: [laughs] Can you imagine if there was an airline that actually was that, which was like all puppies?

Leah: That's alI would fly. I would only fly that airline. I would—I would invest in them.

Nick: A business opportunity out there.

Leah: I would ask them to sponsor us.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Also, this last plane ride, I had a lady with a puppy. Sometimes you gotta get a puppy across country. It's just what's gonna happen. And it's a puppy, and it had a little trouble, and I just felt absolutely sorry for the puppy and it's human, obviously. Something like—something like that, I think we can have a little compassion. It's a puppy.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think the general vibe is that with etiquette in general, you just want to be mindful of the people around you. And so I think you want to just be mindful. Like, oh, how is my dog gonna affect my fellow passengers? Some things are out of your control. I mean, some things just can't be helped. But I think the things you can control, I think we want to try and control for those things.

Leah: I was actually shocked, as a dog owner, that this man was just letting his dog walk around and bark at everybody. I was like, what are you doing?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, dogs will bark, but to make no effort?

Leah: To make no effort, that's what it is. Sometimes they bark.

Nick: Yeah, it's the not making the effort part that's the etiquette problem.

Leah: And that's the thing. It's not the dog, it's the person.

Nick: Oh, yeah. No, for sure. Yes. That's always the case.

Leah: I think, like, if somebody has their dog out on their lap and you're allergic, you could say—just say, "I'm so sorry. I'm allergic. Do you mind keeping them in their carrier?"

Nick: Yes. Or even if you're not allergic, but just uncomfortable, I think it is fair if you are seated next to somebody on an airplane and there's a dog, and just it's not the vibe for you, just say, like, "Oh, unfortunately I don't do well with dogs. I don't do well with dogs. It's not that I'm allergic. It's just like I don't do well." And I think that's a fair thing to say. And I think it is fair to ask for another seat or trade with the person across the aisle from you.

Leah: I mean, and the thing is is that the dogs aren't supposed to be out, as much as I wish they were as a—obviously, I wish I could take my little Lacey Jane out and have her on my lap. Unless they're a service animal, they're supposed to be under the seat.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And I think a little unzip, we rub their little nose when the takeoff and—you know, just they're a dog. They need to be checked on. But to have them up and on the seat is a—it's a gross disregard for the rules.

Nick: Yes. Yeah, cuddling is probably not in the rules. Right.

Leah: And I mean, I get it and I would, but I—it's against the rules.

Nick: Yes. Until you launch your airline.

Leah: Until I launch my airline. Also, I understand sometimes you let your dog out of the bag in the airport. They stretch their little legs, they hop back in. I'm very—but we don't let our dogs just randomly bark at people without reeling it in or shake our dandruff on other people. We're not doing that.

Nick: So is it just the bottom line just like, oh, be conscientious of other people? Is that just like—is that just the bottom line here?

Leah: Well, I as a—I mean, that seems to be sort of the—the bottom line of all of our things.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: I just, as a dog owner who loves to travel with their dog and wants to take our dog everywhere, even though I get that a lot of people don't like that, I think that if we all come together as dog owners and make sure our dogs behave properly in public ...

Nick: Oh, you mean etiquette only works when we all do it together?

Leah: Obviously ...

Nick: Oh , what a novel idea!

Leah: There's gonna be a few dogs that have a learning curve because they're rescues, they came from hard situations, they're puppies. This poor lady at the airport, oh my goodness! The dog was like, "I can't fly!" and she just had to get it across America. And we were all—it was a group effort. But, you know, sometimes we have extenuating circumstances. I think we can all understand that. But in general, like, let's try to be aware of people around us that maybe don't want our dogs barking in their faces.

Nick: Yes. And I guess is it barking? Is that, like, the main concern on an airplane?

Leah: I guess this person doesn't like the dog out of the bag. That's—I've not been on a plane where I'm even allowed to unzip the bag, so the fact that this person got the dog out and onto their seat?

Nick: Yes, you have been reprimanded.

Leah: I have been reprimanded for an unzip. Also, if somebody was next to me and said what you just said, which was ...

Nick: "Unfortunately, I don't do well with dogs."

Leah: I would be like, "Oh my goodness, of course!"

Nick: That would be the nice way to handle it. Yeah. And I think lastly, I think you just need to remember that when you're traveling with your pet, like, the rules about personal space still apply. So, like, the dog and the carrier still needs to be, like, in your zone and your sort of bubble. Like, you can't have the carrier intrude on the bubble of somebody else. So you gotta stick within your bubble.

Leah: Gotta stay in your bubble.

Nick: Right? You know, because I mean, you're gonna have the carrier out a little bit, you know, from under the seat. You know, it's not gonna be shoved totally under the seat. And so you just want to make sure that it's still within your zone.

Leah: I haven't even let anybody let me take it out under the seat a little bit. Like, I've been on the strictest airlines, so I don't know ...

Nick: Gotta fly privately.

Leah: I want to fly whatever this airline is where the dog was out on the lap and nobody said anything. [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess if it's a really cute dog and it's a really chill crew.

Leah: I may start just walking around airports with people with pets and being like, "Hey, you're gonna take away my right to fly with a dog if you keep behaving this way. So can you get that in order, please?"

Nick: [laughs] Okay. I mean, if you want to go viral, that's your ticket.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "I work on the top floor of an eight-story building. Executives park under our building while we plebes park in another building across the street. The elevator has both front and rear doors, but the rear doors only open on the first floor near the back door where we plebes enter, so we walk onto the elevator using the back doors, the executives and visitors leaving using the front doors. The elevator stops several times each evening between when I enter and leave. My conundrum: which way do I face? I worry about this way too much, and remind myself of Leah."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: "If I face front the way you normally would in an elevator, it's awkward when my fellow plebes get on and face the back. I usually end up facing sideways until someone else gets on and faces another way, and then I mimic them. This isn't as difficult in the morning because even though we pile on from the rear, everyone on all floors leaves through the front. Curious about your thoughts."

Leah: Oh, I love this person so much.

Nick: I mean, this does not occur to me as a problem. I don't know what the problem is here, so walk me through what anxiety is this producing. I'm not quite sure.

Leah: You feel like you have to constantly be turning around so you're facing the opening door.

Nick: I mean ...

Leah: But then you don't want to be facing the other direction that other people aren't facing, so—because you don't want to give people your back. I mean, you're giving the people behind you your back, but you don't want to be facing directly into somebody's face. It's so many choices, Nick.

Nick: I mean, is it, though? I guess—all right. I mean, it's like I get on the building, and every door opens one way except basically, like, the bottom floor, which is, like, the other way. Right? Isn't that what's happening here? Like, floors one through eight, it's all the front door. You get on through the front, the executives and the guests leave through the lobby, through the front, and then one floor below that basement I guess, the rear door opens where us plebes go back to our cars. That's what's happening.

Leah: And they're saying—in the morning, our letter-writer is like, this is not a problem, because we all get in at the bottom floor and then we all turn around because all the other doors are the other direction.

Nick: Oh, I see. So we're preparing our bodies for exit as soon as we arrive. That's what's happening. Once we're on the bottom one, the rest are facing forward. Okay. All right, all right. Fair.

Leah: So it's when the exit is happening. Because you get on, and then you know you're going all the way down.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And going out, but all the other people coming on are not going in that direction except for the people that you're getting out with. So that's where the anxiety comes in.

Nick: Okay. So how would you handle this?

Leah: I would get to a wall and stand sideways.

Nick: All right. So you're gonna just be, like, sideways, and you're gonna have the one door to your left and one door to your right.

Leah: That is what I am going to do.

Nick: Okay, so you're sort of like looking at everybody.

Leah: Yeah. This way I am just out of the way and not taking a side.

Nick: I think the general principle is that we always want to face the door, right?

Leah: There's two doors.

Nick: Right. But in general, we just want, like, the door, whatever the door is, that's what we want to face. So it feels like regardless of where I may go at some point, I want to always be facing what is, like, the current door. So the first eight floors, the "door", quote-unquote, is that front door. So I think when I get on, I want to face that door. And then once we pass one and the only door option is the other one, then I would wait to see are other people rotating, in which case I would also then rotate. Otherwise, I would just say still.

Leah: No, what they're saying is that when their fellow plebes get on—which I love—they all face the back door. So our letter-writer is the only person facing the front door and then turning around.

Nick: So at the end of the night—sorry listeners for, like, belaboring the logistics here ... [laughs]

Leah: I think it's very important.

Nick: So I get on on the eighth floor. I know I'm exiting on the basement floor in the other direction.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: So people, the other plebes, when they get on the elevator on the eighth floor, they're getting on with their back to the door they just went through, and they are facing the rear door the whole way down. That's what's happening?

Leah: That's what our letter-writer is saying is happening.

Nick: Then that should not be happening. Okay.

Leah: But they are not in charge of the other people. They can only modify their behavior.

Nick: Right. Right. Well I mean, I guess if only plebes were on the elevator, then I guess we would want to do that, because then we're not, like, making it awkward for everybody else. Although if all the plebes are facing the rear door and you face the front door, you are back to back with them, which would also be fine, because the idea here is we do not want direct eye contact. I don't want to be staring directly into the eyes of somebody else on this elevator. That's why we all choose one direction to all face, right?

Leah: Right. But there are other people getting on.

Nick: Well, I don't know. I can't—I can't make other people do stuff.

Leah: Well, that's what I'm saying. That's why I would just—that's why it's chaotic and anxiety producing.

Nick: It is chaotic, right. But that's wrong. What you should be doing is: get on, turn around, face the door you came through, and then when it is your time to exit, then we would, as a team, turn around and face that other door and then we would exit.

Leah: So if you're the only person doing that, would you continue to do that even though the rest of the elevator is divided, facing different directions?

Nick: I would, because that would allow me to not be facing other people face to face. I would have my back to them.

Leah: You might not if somebody comes in at the seventh floor and is going to the back, and then is staring directly into your face.

Nick: Oh, and I'm in between?

Leah: You're in between.

Nick: Oh, I don't like that.

Leah: Yeah, it's more complicated than you're making it sound.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Well, yeah. Oh, this is mayhem.

Leah: It's mayhem.

Nick: This is total mayhem.

Leah: That's why I go back to the side. You might not be able to get to that, and then I would just keep turning around in circles.

Nick: I guess what I would try and do is with each person leaving, I would try to go further and further back in the elevator if possible. You know, there's that little shuffle when the door opens, and people come in and leave. Like, I would try to sort of navigate myself slowly to the back of the elevator, I guess. I guess what I want to achieve is I do not want to look at anybody's face.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So however we can achieve that, I feel like that's the key. However we do that.

Leah: I feel like we gave a lot of options.

Nick: Yes. Well, I feel like we explained how things should work in the world.

Leah: You explained how it should work.

Nick: Unfortunately, you are living in a chaotic off-the-etiquette-grid place. [laughs]

Leah: Let me tell you. If possible, I would take the stairs. I would be like, "I can't deal with this."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I'm taking the stairs.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think the only other etiquette sort of solution that we can pull from our etiquette toolbox is the classic pretend it's not happening. So I think we just need to have an out-of-body experience, and we have to just pretend I'm not around these other people, I do not see them, I'm not gonna engage with them, they do not exist, and just space out and just it'll be over in 90 seconds and then we can leave.

Leah: I just deeply love our letter-writer because they said, "remind myself of Leah," and I just feel so seen, you know?

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: They get me.

Nick: Yes, you—you are known as a person that can have anxiety anywhere.

Leah: I don't know if it's necessarily anxiety. I mean, it is anxiety, but it's also just overthinking a situation. It's wanting to be ...

Nick: Right.

Leah: It's wanting to be good so bad that you see it from all the different perspectives.

Nick: Yes, you see it from the front door, the rear door.

Leah: The side.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So our next question is quote, "I had guests come over for a pizza party at my place. My first two guests texted a third person a few hours before to invite him—with my permission. This person had never been to my place before. When the first two guests arrived, they told me that the third guest told them he could not find the place and would not be coming. We think that he doesn't drive, and so perhaps his ride couldn't find my place, got fed up and turned around, but well, I'm friends with this guy. I'm rather miffed that though he has my phone number, he didn't reach out to me for help at all or tell me himself that he was canceling. I expect that when we see each other next, the first thing he'll do is explain what happened. Maybe if I'd sent him the address directly, he'd have found his way, but I also think he should have told me that there was a problem—if this excuse is indeed accurate. If it's not accurate, then I'm not sure if I want to invite him again, as I bought extra food expecting him to come and thought he was really interested in coming. What is your take on this situation?"

Leah: My take is that he should have reached out to you.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, you're totally allowed to be annoyed here. Like, this is rude.

Leah: It's rude. Also, you don't live in a—are you in the woods with no address? Like, it seems like a not acceptable ...

Nick: Yeah. I mean, there was no effort made, and I think that's the problem. Like, there was no effort made to be like, "Oh, I can't find your place. Like, let me make an effort to try." Which would be like, "Hey, can't find your place. Like, do I have the address right? Is there a landmark? Is this it? Like, any special instructions?" You know, like, that didn't seem to happen.

Leah: Yeah. It seemed—it seems very laissez faire, this person.

Nick: Right. And maybe they thought the pizza party was super caszh and it was like, come or don't. Like, maybe that's how the invitation happened? Also, like, you didn't issue the invitation, and so maybe there was even a stronger feeling of casualness.

Leah: I would just not invite them again until they said something to me.

Nick: Yes. I mean, I think that we can certainly use this as something to hold against them when we decide whether or not to invite them in the future. And let's say that they couldn't find the place. Like, let's say that that really did happen. Okay, that happened. They didn't say anything in the moment to you directly, they communicated it through third parties. Okay. Don't love any of that. Was there any attempt the next day to follow up? I guess that's the question. Was there any attempt to apologize? Smooth this over? Anything? Any contact? I think that would be the question. And if you just run into them again, you know, in two months and be like, "Oh, you know, that pizza party? Sorry I couldn't make it because of some really good excuse," You know, okay, we could revise where they stand on your guest list in the future based on that conversation.

Leah: I get from this message that they didn't follow up the next day.

Nick: Oh, definitely not.

Leah: Definitely not. And then our letter-writer says, "I expect when we see each other next, the first thing he'll do is explain." He should have explained already.

Nick: Yes. And also, I don't actually want an explanation. I just want an apology.

Leah: Yeah, just an apology.

Nick: Like there's no explanation that's, like, satisfying at this point.

Leah: I was trying to think of—I've been in two places where the parking was so bad that I just—I kept circling and circling and looking and circling, and I got late. I mean, and I left—you know me. I'll leave hours in advance.

Nick: Yeah. This was the day before.

Leah: Yeah. [laughs] And I texted my host letting them know I'm here. I'm—I'm—now I'm late because I can't find—what works best for you? Should I—like, I was in constant ...

Nick: Yeah. I mean, that's the best you can do.

Leah: Because things happen.

Nick: Oh, for sure. And even if your host didn't have their phone on them and, like, couldn't respond, the fact that you did, like, make an effort and be like, "Oh my gosh, I can't make this happen," I would appreciate that as a host. Like, I wouldn't hold that against you for a future guest list purposes.

Leah: I want all of our listeners to know that I did, in fact, make it to both those places. On one of them, I parked, like, a mile away on the side of a hill.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: And I did a slow jog over. And in the other one, I parked even further than that away—in the rain—and I still got to that house because I said I would be there and I showed up.

Nick: And Leah Bonnema will not be removed from your guest list.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So yeah. No, I don't like anything that happened here. Also, this whole, like, oh what ifs? Like, oh, maybe if I'd sent him my address directly? Like, this is not on you. This is not on you. I mean, sure, you could have sent the address directly, you could have invited this person directly. But you said that this person has your phone number. So, like, you know, the phone works both ways. I don't think you did anything wrong here. And a pizza party? How delightful? Why wouldn't somebody want to attend this?

Leah: Yeah, I was like, where—are you near us? That's so fun!

Nick: Yeah. Like, and I would make an effort if you lived in some weird, like, unmarked, abandoned building down a unmarked driveway. I would figure it out. Yeah, just look for the smell of pizza. I would just, like, roll down the windows and be like, oh, "Is that Asiago?"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So do you have questions for us about pizza parties, etiquette crimes, vents, repents, or just good old fashioned questions? Please let us know! You can let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I'm gonna repent.

Nick: [gasps] Leah, what have you done?

Leah: [laughs] Oh it's mortifying. I um ...

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: So I was at the gym. I went to take a Zumba class, which we all know ...

Nick: You love a good Zumba.

Leah: I love a Zumba. I even love a bad Zumba. I don't care, I just want a Zumba.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I get there. It's not the Zumba class, it's another class that I don't really have to take, so I don't take it.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But I think while I'm here, I'm gonna do a quick—I'm gonna do some weights.

Nick: All right.

Leah: So I go to the weights area, which in my gym is very—it's intense. It's an intense LA weights area.

Nick: And what does that mean in terms of intensity?

Leah: These are, like, professional ...

Nick: Like, models?

Leah: These are just professional workout people working out.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And I am not prepared because I was ready for a class. So I don't have my earbuds. I usually have a little hand sanitizer with me. I don't have any of that.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But I'm like, I'm here and I'm dressed, I gotta do something. So I do my first machine. I look around, I don't see—you know, you're supposed to wipe down your machine after you use it.

Nick: Oh, I know that.

Leah: I know you know that.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I'm just saying that for our listeners at home, if you haven't been to a group gym, you gotta wipe down your machines.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I also want everybody to know I know that.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I look around, I don't see the spray thing, I don't see the long list of napkins that are full of Clorox. I see none of these things.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I ask the lady next to me, "Hey, where did you get your, you know, wipey thing?" And then she's like, "Over there." I go over there. Nothing.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: So then I'm walking around the gym looking for the thing. I see a pile of wipes. Oh, here we are! I walk over, I pull some off. I see this man staring at me, just staring at my face. But I—I can't process at this point. I'm—I'm confused. I'm self-conscious. I'm just trying to wipe down this machine. I don't know why I can't find the thing. I pull the things. I go back to my machine, I wipe down, I sit down. I realize that I didn't pull it out of a wipey thing. This man was just walking around with a pile of Clorox, and that was his personal Clorox wipes pile.

Nick: [laughs] Oh, so this other gym member had a—just a handful.

Leah: A bundle.

Nick: Like, in a bucket, a container?

Leah: Like, it was on top of the weight machine, but it was just lying on top. And as I took it, I thought, what an interesting way to keep your Clorox wipes.

Nick: Okay. So instead of him saying, like, "Oh, those are mine," he just watched you do it.

Leah: He just watched me do it.

Nick: Take his wipes.

Leah: Yeah. And I mean, I only took one.

Nick: Okay. Um, interesting! What an interesting etiquette problem.

Leah: And then I went back, I wiped down, I sat at another machine. I looked over, and that's when it all hit me.

Nick: Okay. All right, so etiquette crime had been committed, and then you did what?

Leah: And then I sat there and had a panic attack.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: And I was like, I don't—I don't even know what I'm—I was mortified. And then I was like, should I get up and apologize? Should I go over? And, you know, he had his earphones in. He was in a workout.

Nick: Right.

Leah: Do I go over and say, "Hey, sorry I took your thing. I thought it was—" or do I—and then in the middle of me having a breakdown, he got up and left.

Nick: Okay. Oh, interesting! So yes, I think stealing his personal pile of wipes? That's not great. It's not great.

Leah: I don't want to say 'stealing.' I didn't know. I thought it was group property.

Nick: Okay. I mean, inadvertent theft? How do you want to describe it?

Leah: It was inadvertent theft.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Yes, although where are the wipes, I think, is really the question.

Leah: Where are the wipes? I didn't find any other ones. I didn't want to leave a machine unwiped. That felt so rude.

Nick: I mean, apparently they must be very far and hard to get because this guy felt he needed to stockpile them so that he could have easy access during his workout.

Leah: Yes. I just never would think of somebody stockpiling wipes, so I didn't ...

Nick: Or did he bring those from home?

Leah: Oh my gosh, I hope he didn't bring those from home, and I took a personal wipe.

Nick: So I think if you were to see him at the gym again, I think it would be fine to say, like, "Oh hey, remember me? I just want to say I'm sorry for taking that wipe the other day. It didn't click that that was your personal pile. For some reason, I thought that was for everybody in the gym, and I only realized it much later in the day. And I've been thinking about it ever since." And I would just state that, and then that could be the end of that. I think that that might bring a lightness to you.

Leah: I was thinking about switching gyms. [laughs]

Nick: Okay. That's probably easier. Yeah, that's probably just easier. Yeah. Also, to maybe read the schedule a little better so that you know if it's a Zumba class or not.

Leah: Oh, don't put that on me. It was a Zumba class. The Zumba class teacher canceled, and they brought in another person who couldn't teach Zumba, so they brought another thing in.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: I have it on my phone. I have it printed out on the refrigerator.

Nick: Okay. Fair enough. Well, I would like to repent for accusing you of not reading the schedule.

Leah: That was hurtful.

Nick: That's it.

Leah: Hurtful.

Nick: Well, now I just also get a repent in there. So that counts, everybody.

Leah: No it doesn't. That doesn't count, Nick.

Nick: [laughs] Well, for me today—formally—I would like to vent. And so speaking of airplanes, I was recently on a flight to California, and I'm an aisle guy. Love a good aisle seat. I don't want to be trapped. You know, I want to—I want to know where my exits are, which may be behind you. And so I'm in the aisle, I'm minding my own business in my seat, I'm on my laptop, I'm responding to some nice emails from the wilderness. And a gentleman is in the aisle, and he decides to say hello to the woman across the aisle from me. Okay, you know this person? How nice to say hello. But because she was seated and he was in the aisle, he decided that he needed to get a little lower in order to have that conversation. And so when people bend over, they often bend at their back, which means their butt goes somewhere.

Nick: And where that somewhere happened to be was in my direction.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And we all agree that there is an invisible dotted line that extends from my armrests to the heavens, and everything within that dotted line is mine. This is my space. And so his butt crossed this little dotted line. And so if this was a quick conversation, quick hello, "Hey, Barb. How are you? Oh, did you have a nice time in San Francisco? Oh, great to see you." If that's all that was, okay, fine. It was that, but then it moved on to a new chapter of conversation which felt like, oh, this is gonna be going on for a while.

Nick: And it was, like, probably two minutes at this point where somebody's butt is in my face. And so that's when I have to be like, I gotta say something. Like, I can't—I can't actually type on my laptop. You were actually, like, in between the laptop screen and me at this point with your body. And so it's hard to catch somebody's eye, though, because, like, you do need to kind of get a little eye contact, and he was talking to the person across the aisle. So I did, like, say, "Oh, I'm sorry," in, like, an anticipatory way. Like, I didn't complete the thought, but I was just sort of like, "Oh, I'm sorry." And as if I was gonna be like, "Can you please move your body?" But that's actually all I needed to do. He did get it eventually. So this was not malicious. This was not a malicious space invasion. But it happened, and it's still an etiquette crime, and I still want to vent about it.

Nick: So I think we all just want to be mindful of what is happening in the aisles. We want to keep those clear. It is not for conversation. This is not for yoga. This is for movement, and it's for carts and it's for getting from A to B. So I just want to remind everybody that is what the aisle is for.

Leah: [laughs] Airplanes, just so fraught.

Nick: It is a fraught place. It is a fraught place.

Leah: I was on a plane that was having trouble landing, and I guess the winds were changing. Seemed like a not exactly correct explanation.

Nick: Like, the pilot came on and was like, "Hey everybody."

Leah: Oh no, no. We weren't told first. First, the landing gear came down, we were almost on the ground and then they pulled up, like, a full ...

Nick: Oh, they did a go around. Okay.

Leah: And I mean, it was—because we were almost down, it was very—it was a very severe wind.

Nick: Okay. I mean, wind gusts happen.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: I mean, sure. This is plausible.

Leah: So that happened three times. And they were like, "If it happens again, we'll—we're gonna go to a different airport." But the men in the next were extremely anxious, which I absolutely understand. This happens to me more than once, and every time I end up getting put in the position to, like, try to talk people down.

Nick: Oh, you, Leah Bonnema, is the person of reason and calm?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Wow!

Leah: I don't need this tone. And ...

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: And so I was like, "Hey!" You know, and then so they took out e-cigarettes.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: I think it was just out of a nervous habit. So then the flight attendant is, like, yelling through the intercom, "You can't have e-cigarettes!" And they were like, "We're not smoking them. We're just anxious!" And it was just this hilarious back and forth in the middle of this plane keep not landing, and they're, like, out with their e-cigarettes and the flight attendant yelling over the thing. And I was like, planes are chaos!

Nick: Yeah. It's—it's bonkers up there.

Leah: Bonkers!

Nick: We have our work cut out for us.

Leah: We do. And obviously the first thing we're gonna do is start a airline with just dogs.

Nick: All we need is a good name.

Leah: Oh, wow. What a—what a fun brainstorm.

Nick: Yeah. Bow Wow Air?

Leah: [laughs] That's so funny. That's exactly the first thing I thought of.

Nick: [laughs] I don't—I don't know if that's gonna nail it, but we'll brainstorm.

Leah: And then we'll have a line of, like, flight attendants clapping and we'll go "Round of a-paws." [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Oh, Leah Bonnema! No.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned the two-finger tap.

Nick: Yes. Isn't that fun?

Leah: It's very fun. Very, very fun. I might try to, like, kick it off here.

Nick: Oh, people do it in Los Angeles. Absolutely. Yeah, you'll see it.

Leah: Now I'm gonna look for it. And I'm gonna try to throw in my two-finger thank you.

Nick: Toss it in. And I learned that you have actually taken a class to make sure Lacey is a perfect passenger.

Leah: Yes, I'm very conscientious of flying and her behavior with other people because I love Lacey and I love other people to also feel comfortable.

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, I want you to send me a letter in the mail to our P.O. box. And you're like, "I don't have cards." Exactly! This is your opportunity to go buy some cards and some stamps and start building a stationery wardrobe, so that when you have somebody besides me to write a note to, such as a thank-you note or anything else, you will be ready. So in preparation, I want you to get out some cards, send me a note to my P.O. box and say hello. And I would love that. And so fill my P.O. box and get your stationery wardrobe going. That's your homework.

Leah: I started getting stressed and then I remembered I just sent you a letter, so I've already done my homework. [laughs]

Nick: Right. Yes. And thank you for your nice card, I appreciate it.

Leah: Thank you for your nice card!

Nick: My pleasure. And I have a stationery wardrobe ready to roll, of course! At a moment's notice, I am ready to drop a note in the mail. So I want you to be ready, too. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: I think I've actually sent a cordials of kindness out to this person before, but they deserve multiple. I just feel so absolutely grateful to have such a wonderful neighbor, Erin, who I believe you remember when we first moved in and they couldn't fit our furniture in—I'd never met her. She opened her door and was like, "Let me help!"

Nick: That's a good neighbor.

Leah: And then so now we watch each other's mail. We take care of each other's animals. I just feel so absolutely grateful.

Nick: Oh, very nice! And for me, I want to say thank you to this stranger at JFK who gave me $20.

Leah: What?

Nick: [laughs] So this is what happened. I was flying. And I was going through security, and I noticed that in the bin right in front of me there was a cell phone. And so I turned to the woman who had just left, and I was like, "Oh, ma'am, is this your cell phone?" And it was. And she was so grateful that she took $20 out of her wallet and, like, gave it to me. And I was like, "I cannot—I'm not gonna take $20 from you." Like, any person would, like, do the right thing and be like, 'Is this your cell phone?' And she insisted so hard. Like, I had my arms down, which was like, oh, you're gonna have to throw that bill at my body. Like, I'm not gonna catch it.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: But she was so, like, joyous. Like, I guess she was going on a vacation and she was in a good mood, and I really probably saved her vacation because she didn't, like, leave her phone behind. And she was so wanting to give me this $20 that it was like it would be rude at this point to. like, just not take it from her. So I was just like, "Okay, great. I'll take the $20." So then, like, I took $20. So it just goes to show doing the right etiquette thing sometimes is profitable.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] But thanks, stranger. I really—I mean, like, I—nice. That's a nice gesture, I guess.

Leah: Did you go to the candy store in the airport after that with that big 20?

Nick: Yes. I bought one walnut with $20 at Hudson News. Yes.

Leah: So true.

Nick: One bag of nuts. Yep, that was it.