Suspending Coffee, Being A Good Customer, Eating on Camera, and More

Nick: Do you demand free shipping? Do you eat chicken wings on camera? Do you not know when to plunge your coffee? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse-bouche.

Leah: Whoo!

Nick: So for today's amuse-bouche, I want to talk about caffè sospeso. So do you know what this is?

Leah: Is it suspicious coffee?

Nick: It literally translates as "suspended coffee."

Leah: [laughs] Suspended. That makes more sense.

Nick: Suspended in mid-air, yes. So have you ever had suspended coffee?

Leah: I don't think I have.

Nick: What do you think this is?

Leah: I think that it's coffee that has been let go, but not fully fired. Just on a slight suspension.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So what this is is something from Naples. Originated in Naples, Italy, and local dialect actually might say "Sospeso." And so it started in the late 1800s, and it was definitely a thing in World War I. And it ebbs and flows with the unemployment rate, and sort of how the economy's doing. So any other thoughts of what this could be?

Leah: Oh, we wanted more thoughts? I was just—I was already listening. Now I was just in learning.

Nick: Okay. We're in learning mode. Fine. So what this is is a Napolitano tradition of buying a coffee for a stranger. And so what you do is you buy a coffee, and then you'll buy a second coffee and you will ask the barista to "suspend it." And then they'll keep it on file, and then somebody comes in who doesn't have the money for a coffee and they'll ask, "Oh, do you have any suspended coffees available?" And the barista will say yes. And if they do, then they will give that person a free coffee.

Leah: I love this! Love this! And it's so much better than a coffee that's been suspended for, I don't know, behavioral issues.

Nick: [laughs] Right. Yeah. Detention for talking in class. Yes. So it's just an anonymous act of kindness. And what I love about this is that it's one of those etiquette things that, like, is lovely in and of itself, but it also is a window into, like, this entire society. It actually gives you the full, like, 4,000-year history of Naples in this snapshot. And I love when etiquette rules or etiquette things sort of like do that because you're like, "Oh, this is the point."

Leah: So cool.

Nick: I mean, what we learn is that people in Naples really do look out for each other in a way that's pretty rare for a city of, like, two million people. And there's a lot of historical reasons for this. I mean, northern Italy, southern Italy, economies are different. A lot of ink has been spilled on this topic. But definitely going back to, like, late 1800s when Italy unified and became a single country, this is when this actually started up. Because I think this is when Naples was sort of like being left behind a little bit where, like, the party was in northern Italy, it was in Milan, it was in Turin, it was in Rome. And it was sort of like wasn't necessarily in Naples. And so it is not coincidental that this suspended coffee tradition started in the late 1800s around the same time. And just sidebar, we forget that Italy is a very new country—1861. In 1861, Lincoln was president of the United States. We were already on our 16th president by the time Italy became a country. So, like, interesting. Italy is younger than the United States.

Nick: So economically, Naples' unemployment has historically been higher than elsewhere in Italy, and definitely has been hit harder by different crises, like Eurozone crisis in 2009 wasn't a great time in Naples. And so I think this idea of, like, oh, let's take care of each other, let's pay it forward. I can afford an extra coffee. Let me do something nice for my fellow citizen. It's really an amazing sort of spirit that is really embedded in this fabric of Naples that has been going on for 4,000 years. I mean, when you think of the history of Naples going back to, like, Greek settlement in 2,000 BC to today, like, a lot's gone down. But the thing that, like, keeps everybody together is, like, oh, we are all of Naples. Like, we all, like, have this sort of identity that, like, unites us. And I think this suspended coffee is definitely one of these things. So I really love that about this etiquette thing and just etiquette in general, I guess.

Leah: Oh, I love it. It's so great! And also I want to do it. I want to go to Naples and do it.

Nick: Let's do it. Oh, Naples is wonderful. I was there a few months ago, and I gotta say, the coffee is better. The pizza is better. Like, I really think it probably is the best pizza in Italy, the best coffee. Because, like, there is that volcanic soil because we all remember Pompeii and Vesuvius, you know, it was kind of a thing. And so that volcanic soil really does affect the water, and the water is so crucial to espresso. It's so crucial to pizza dough. And that's why you have to be in Naples to really experience it. You can't export these things. And so yeah, let's go, Leah. Let's do it.

Leah: Let's—no, really, let's do it.

Nick: I know you really want to. Yeah. [laughs]

Leah: I know you're like, "Traveling with Leah. I can hang in."

Nick: I mean, I was just there so, like, you know, I was just there.

Leah: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Nick: But I'll give you some recommendations for where to get pizza.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: [laughs] All right, fine. All right, we'll go. Andiamo.

Leah: Let's go suspend!

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: [laughs] Deep and shopping. It doesn't actually have to be shopping. There are so many ways in which this is applied.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about being a good customer. I think so often we talk about, like, "Oh, I went to a store and they were rude to me, and—" but, like, what about you? Are you perfect? Are you doing it right? Are you nailing it 100 percent of the time?

Leah: Pointed! Pointed!

Nick: I don't know. [laughs]

Leah: What about you?

Nick: What about you? Maybe the problem is you. So let's just talk about things that maybe come up, and then let's try and avoid being the problem.

Leah: I mean, sounds good to me.

Nick: Okay. I mean, the first thing on my list is, I think, the golden rule, which is just, like, treat the people how you want to be treated. Like, let's start there as a baseline.

Leah: Yes, I think we should start everything with that baseline.

Nick: Yes. I mean, that's a good baseline. Yes. Yes. But definitely in any encounter in a retail environment, yeah, I think we want to do that, especially when things go wrong. Because that's usually the problem. Like, if you're just buying something in the supermarket and the transaction is smooth, like, there's no problem here. It's when things go off the rails that, you know, etiquette problems arise.

Leah: Yes. Although I've seen etiquette problems arise with nothing actually being that wrong.

Nick: Oh, that's true. Yeah, there is spontaneous combustion when it comes to etiquette. Yeah, that is true.

Leah: And then you do that thing where you're, like, acting like you're not watching because that would be rude. But you're also totally watching.

Nick: Yeah. No, I definitely love being an innocent bystander sometimes. I mean, that's what this whole show is.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: We're basically innocent bystanders to amazing etiquette problems, it's true. But the golden rule. I feel like let's just start there. And then there's the question of, "Is the customer always right?" And it's like, no. Actually, no.

Leah: Oh, definitely not. I feel like I've—I've worked on the other side so much that I think it's nice to approach the situation as if you want to hear the customer out, because a lot of times people just want to be heard.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So the idea that, like, you could be listened to, but also at the same time, obviously some things are out of bounds.

Nick: Yes. And I think one issue that comes up is people treating stores all the same, and kind of expecting an Amazon experience, like, at your local mom and pop hardware store. And it's kind of like, oh, they might have a different return policy, you know? They might actually have a restocking fee. Like, the policies may be different. So you can't, like, demand Amazon service, like, everywhere. Like, "Oh, I expect this in two days for free, and I want free returns even if I used it. And, like, I want no questions asked." And it's like not everybody works that way.

Leah: Yeah, shipping is actually very expensive for small businesses.

Nick: Oh, definitely. Yes. So certainly, you can ask for coupon codes. You know, you can ask for discounts but, like, don't be mad if they can't or won't.

Leah: It's also not even just the price of the shipping. A lot of things have to be packaged correctly to be shipped if it's things that are breakable or not—irregular, and that's somebody's time that they're paying.

Nick: Yeah. So I think just an understanding that, like, not all retail is the same. I guess that's an important thing just to be mindful of. Like, am I being reasonable? I guess that's what it is.

Leah: Am I being reasonable?

Nick: [laughs] Right?

Leah: Am I being reasonable?

Nick: Right. Yeah, I guess that's what it kind of comes down to. All right, that's the end of the segment.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Leah: Actually, that's the end of the show.

Nick: That is—yeah, if we could just achieve that? Oh, goodbye. Yeah. Hang up a "Gone fishing" sign and we're done. Yeah. Where's my Nobel Prize?

Leah: I would actually love to go fishing with you. I think that would be—I just imagined us both in waders. Like, all of a sudden, I just went right to fly fishing.

Nick: Oh, we're going ice fishing. No, no. I need—I need a little hut. I need a little hole in the ice. That's what we're doing.

Leah: A hat?

Nick: Yes. Some cocoa. I'm ready to roll.

Leah: That would be fun. I'll do that, too.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. You're up for anything.

Leah: I really am.

Nick: Yeah. No, I know. It's one of your finer qualities.

Leah: That's what I was gonna say. I think it's an enjoyable part of me.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I think that also many small businesses are artists.

Nick: True.

Leah: And so I have a friend who's a painter—I've witnessed this on many an occasion, and they do landscapes.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And people will be like, "Hey, do you do portraits? Do you do caricatures?" And I think it's—I mean, you want to ask? Ask. But then when they say, "Oh, no, I do landscapes," you don't need to tell people, "Oh, well, you should be doing this."

Nick: [laughs] Yes. "Let me actually tell you how you should run your business."

Leah: Yeah. Yeah, don't do that.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think just take no for an answer. Let's not criticize their business model.

Leah: Yeah. And also realize it's their art, so you're actually criticizing something very personal they've been working on for a very long time.

Nick: Also that. Yeah. Oh, that's actually bad for a lot of reasons. Oh, yeah. I don't like any of that.

Leah: I would actually say, "I love what you do. I've been specifically looking for this thing. By any chance—"

Nick: Right.

Leah: Instead of just being like, "Hey, do you do caricatures?"

Nick: "Well, you should."

Leah: "Well, you should."

Nick: "Big missed opportunity. Big mistake. Huge."

Leah: "Huge!"

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. So I think that—I think that's a good note is just like, is my request reasonable?

Leah: Is my request insulting is another part of that.

Nick: Another thing I wanted to note is that businesses do live in fear—like, small businesses—of bad reviews. And I think a lot of people are very quick to threaten a bad review, which is basically extortion. And it's kind of like extortion is rude.

Leah: Extortion is rude. That is ...

Nick: I think extortion is rude. So—so I feel like before you leave a negative review, make sure that that is really warranted and important to do, and is a service to other potential customers. Like, I feel like we really want to be mindful of, like, the impact a negative review can have because small businesses definitely live and die by these. So if they're just like the worst people ever and they're, like, scamming everybody. Sure, absolutely warn people. If it was like an issue you had, and is this really something you need to, like, put them on blast for? And if it's not, then it's sort of like maybe just not leave the negative review. I don't know. I feel like it just requires some thought before you just hit, like, submit.

Leah: I also think so many people just give reviews when they want to voice a concern. If you had a great time at a small business and you loved it, throw up a lovely review.

Nick: Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think most people who leave reviews only leave negative reviews, and that definitely kind of skews the review system, which is broken on a lot of different levels. So it's like, oh, can we really even trust this whole system we built? But ...

Leah: You can also join me—which I've discussed before—where once a month I go online and I write nice reviews under everything I've enjoyed all month, trying to flip the world into a nicer place.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, do what you can. I don't know what kind of dent you're making but, you know, it's something.

Leah: Step by step.

Nick: Yeah. Be the change you want to see, Leah.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: And next on my list, I think, is just about expectations for, like, what is reasonable, because I feel like maybe we have different definitions of, like, oh, what is reasonable?

Leah: Yeah. And I think we can discuss returns.

Nick: Oh, sure. Yeah. I think a lot of people expect—because I think companies like Amazon has sort of, like, instilled this in a lot of us, which is like, I should be able to return anything at any time for any reason even if I use the whole thing. And it's just because I changed my mind. And it's kind of like, uh ...

Leah: Mmm ...

Nick: Mmm. I mean, I guess if that's Amazon's policy, okay, great. But I don't think we want to necessarily, like, expect that from everywhere.

Leah: Yeah. I think places like there are some clothing companies that have, "Oh, these shoes should last forever. Let us know if something happens." That's one thing.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: But this is still a customer. I've been a waitress where people eat the whole meal, and then tell me they didn't like it.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then I'll be like, "Oh!" You know, you're trying to have that, like, "Oh!" But it's like you ate the entire thing and you didn't like it, and now you don't want to pay for it. That seems, I would say, slightly unreasonable.

Nick: [laughs] Right. Yeah. And I think that person would be like, "Oh, but the customer is always right."

Leah: [laughs] Those of you at home can't see. I did my—I immediately just did my fake frozen smile. "Uh-huh?"

Nick: "Uh-huh."

Leah: "I'm just gonna go get somebody else because I don't ..."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I don't want to lose the tip on this table, but also, that's a wild request.

Nick: That's bonkers. Yeah. So yeah, I guess being reasonable. Lasty, international. It has come to my attention that some people do leave the United States expecting an American style of customer service elsewhere. And I do find it hilarious/sad to overhear Americans complaining to hotels or restaurants or museum desks that something isn't how they want it to be, because this is not how it is in the United States. And it's kind of like, but you're not in the United States, and so therefore you're not gonna get that. Like, your request is unreasonable for this context. So it just feels like just know that reasonableness is contextual.

Leah: [laughs] Know that reasonableness is contextual.

Nick: Yeah. It's like, you're not gonna get free refills at the cafe in Paris. Like, that's just not a thing that's gonna happen for you. I'm so sorry.

Leah: You're also not gonna get free refills in New York City. So know that going in.

Nick: Right. Also, there's that.

Leah: That's a hard lesson learned at one place in Times Square. [laughs]

Nick: Right. Or like, oh, why isn't this shop gonna, like, negotiate prices with you? It's because, like, that's not what a boutique in Florence does. Like, that's not gonna happen. Like, yeah, okay, you're gonna buy two purses? Great. It's just the price of two purses. They're not gonna probably give you a bulk discount, so don't ask.

Leah: Are people doing that in the United States?

Nick: It happens. I'm sure it happens. Everything happens. It's like we live in the multi-universe world, you know, everything everywhere all at once where, like, everything that could happen has happened.

Leah: Hmm.

Nick: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that.

Leah: I also—this reminded me, I recently was a customer in a situation, and this was a learning experience for me, and it had to do with my car. And I'd had a—I needed service for something, and I'd called and the help I had gotten on the phone was not helpful. So I was just like, "I gotta go in." So I came in. I erased that experience on the phone. So I came in not angry, not aggressive, not like—you know what I mean? So I came in being like, "I'm sure I just want to give everybody the benefit of the doubt."

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: You know? And it went so smooth.

Nick: I mean, that's quite nice of you because for an experience on the phone to go so terrible that you had to show up in person physically to solve this problem? Like, I don't know what happened to you on the phone, but I definitely would not let that go.

Leah: They're not the same groups of people, do you know what I mean?

Nick: Sure. Okay. Yes, it is a different person on the phone.

Leah: The person at that place isn't that other person.

Nick: That's true. I mean, recognizing other people's humanity. Yeah, this is—this is important.

Leah: I mentioned that oh, you know—but I was sort of like, "I'm sure we can handle—" you know?

Nick: Yes. "We don't need customer service for this." 800 number? Who needs them!"

Leah: It was so much smoother. I do think there is something to know that people who are there working don't—you know, if you just show up and you're already at a 10 ...

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Even though I wanted to be at a 10, you know, it's not gonna serve anybody.

Nick: Yeah. No, it feels satisfying in the moment. But if the idea is like, "Oh, what's my goal here?"

Leah: What's my goal?

Nick: Which is I want to solve this problem and I want to leave here as quickly as possible, yeah, being at a 10 is usually not gonna be actually the fastest way to do that.

Leah: It actually went very well. I was entirely shocked.

Nick: I mean, congratulations.

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: So being a good customer, I feel like this topic is, like, big. So I think we will revisit this like some of these other big topics: supermarkets, airplanes, cars. Being a good customer, I think it's an important thing because I think in our consumer-driven society that we live in, we're all customers, so it's important to be good ones.

Leah: I also think there—future thought—there is a difference between a place where we're a customer once and we are regularly a customer of a place, and what is that relationship and are there different expectations?

Nick: Oh, there are definitely different expectations. Oh, but should there be? I mean, I feel like we should be as nice—ooh, Leah Bonnema!

Leah: Whoo!

Nick: Oh, you went deep.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Oh, you went deep.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. No, this is good. I mean, I think there are different expectations, but there shouldn't be. All right. Put a pin in that.

Leah: Put a pin in it!

Nick: Oh, I can't wait.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "My big boss, who is located in another state, has invited me to a virtual luncheon on Friday to celebrate my four-year company anniversary. While I'm honored to be invited, and while she seems like a perfectly nice person, I would not describe her as a particularly warm person, so I can't imagine a more awkward interaction. Also, eating on video seems super awkward. Should I actually eat on video? Complicating matters, she sent me a GrubHub gift certificate to purchase said lunch. Truth be told, I have never had food delivered to me in my life. While I was not raised by wolves, I did grow up in a rural area where delivery was not an option. Now that I live in a suburb outside a major city, the restaurant choices are slim and we usually just cook at home. If we do order takeout, we usually go and pick it up. Obviously, I must attend this event, so my questions are: do I have to eat on video? And if the answer is yes, do I need to use the GrubHub gift certificate for this event, or can I just eat my leftovers?"

Leah: Obviously this is a person after my own heart.

Nick: Sure. Rural!

Leah: I've mentioned before that I didn't do takeout until way later in my life.

Nick: Late in life. [laughs] Okay.

Leah: I struggle with the whole concept. I also go and pick up because when people drop off food, it's so hard for me not to be like, "Come in! Are you eating? What's going on?"

Nick: I mean, I think you do get over that, but all right.

Leah: No, I just still go and pick up. That's how I got over it. Or somebody else in the house does it, and I go hide in the bathroom when they come to try to stop myself from being like, "Get in here. You need food!" So I understand.

Nick: Sure. But I don't think that's the awkward thing here. I mean, the awkward thing is, like, "Oh, I now have a Zoom lunch with my, like, big boss who I don't even know that well. And like, what is that?"

Leah: I think there's two awkwards because she says, "Can I just eat my leftovers or do I have to use the GrubHub?"

Nick: Right.

Leah: And I—for my first one is I would use the GrubHub. I feel like this woman sent it to you as, like, a gift, and that's sort of what the expectation of what this lunch is gonna be.

Nick: Yes. I think the idea is like, "Oh, let me take you for lunch to celebrate your anniversary. Because we're in different states, we cannot do this in person, so we're gonna do it virtually. But I'm still covering lunch." So the idea that, like, I'm covering lunch, like, you gotta eat the lunch I'm buying you. Yeah.

Leah: So I would just do it. That's how I feel.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah.

Leah: I would just have that food there.

Nick: Yes. I don't think we want the delivery happening while the Zoom is happening.

Leah: Yeah, I would get it in or have it ordered for earlier, so you make sure it's there for when you go on the meeting.

Nick: Right. And I guess, do I have to eat on camera? Yeah, I think we're having lunch together.

Leah: I think we're definitely being like, "Oh, what'd you get?" "Oh, what'd you get?" "Oh, I ordered from this place." And maybe you can tell a story about how this is your first GrubHub. And then maybe if you feel uncomfortable, you just, like, take one or two bites.

Nick: I think we're doing more eating than that. But yeah, I mean, I think you got to feel it out. Now I was thinking, like, I think there is some strategy available to us in terms of what we order from GrubHub, because I think there is food that we don't want to eat on camera. So I don't think we want to have, like, chicken wings, sloppy Joes, pudding. [laughs]

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Like, I think there's just certain foods that are like, oh, maybe we don't want to be eating these items on camera.

Leah: Also, if you feel uncomfortable eating, you could always do a food where it's just a one hand and then your other hand can sort of go up in front of your mouth while you're chewing.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I guess you could do that. I was thinking, though, it does feel like finger foods are somehow more elegant in this situation than using cutlery. There's something about—especially, like, using a knife and fork together, there's something about that—I don't know about that on camera. That, like, actually seems like more eating-y than, like, not. And, like, being very Victorian about it, which is what we're trying to achieve. We want to be like, "Oh, I'm not actually eating on Zoom right now." And so, like, oh, what would achieve that? So I was like, oh, sushi? You know, chopsticks, that feels kind of like easier. It's one handed. Then I was thinking, like, maybe chicken nuggets. Like, I thought that's actually kind of a good finger food that could work.

Leah: Oh, like a dip and then a pop.

Nick: Right? Or, like, a crudité thing or, like, a cheese platter.

Leah: I love how you're like, "But not chicken wings." You should see me do a chicken wing. I mean, I eat the whole—there is not even cartilage left when I'm done.

Nick: "I eat the bone. Actually, there is nothing left."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] But right. I mean, right, we agree that, like, chicken wings feels like maybe the wrong food item.

Leah: Or it's the right food, and it's just—it's a—you're letting them know this is how I eat chicken.

Nick: Or do we want, like, smoothies? Maybe it's just like beverages.

Leah: I was thinking smoothie, but then you're gonna have the straw noise.

Nick: Right. Well, it's a minefield. It's a culinary minefield.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: But point being, I guess, you just gotta use the gift certificate. You just gotta endure this lunch, and that's the end of it. And just hope that for the fifth-year anniversary, something else happens.

Leah: I think we're trying to stay away from food that breaks and then sticks around in our mouths.

Nick: I think we want to avoid foods that cannot be easily enjoyed in one bite.

Leah: Mm-hmm.

Nick: Right? I think we don't want, like, spaghetti. We don't want, like, lettuce that are like big pieces of lettuce where you, like, kind of have to use the fork to kind of shove it in. You know, that kind of lettuce?

Leah: But I do see, like, we could do a tuna fish sandwich where we pick it up, we do a bite and we put it down.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. I think in my mind I feel like the two-handed thing is, like, not what I want. Like, I thought one hand would be more cazh. Like, more like I'm snacking on camera rather than, like, I'm having a big, like, three-course meal kind of thing.

Leah: I mean, they invited us to lunch, you know? So they gotta know we're eating.

Nick: Yeah, I guess. I think I'm overthinking it. Yeah, I guess what difference does it make? Also, no one remembers any of this. No one's gonna remember anything.

Leah: Also, they're gonna be eating.

Nick: Hopefully. Wouldn't it be great if they just showed up and just watched you eat the whole time?

Leah: "Oh, I just want to watch you eat. Then let's make some phone calls." You know what I mean?

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, that's an HR—that's an HR call.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So let us know how it goes. I'd be very curious to see what did you order, how did it go, what was the result? Give us some aftermath on this.

Leah: I just visualized a knife and fork in my mind, and it wasn't that horrible.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it's not horrible. Yeah, it's fine. It's totally fine. Yeah, I guess it's fine. So do that.

Leah: I would just get a food you love with their gift certificate.

Nick: Okay. Yeah, I guess that that also could be a thing we did not discuss previously. Yeah. Get what you want to eat. Yeah.

Leah: Get what you want to eat. Get what you want to eat.

Nick: [laughs] We should have started with that. That actually—that would have been the best idea. Yeah.

Leah: Something you enjoy. Let them treat you to something you enjoy.

Nick: And so if that's chicken wings and pudding, who are we to say no?

Leah: I would say yes.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it depends on the pudding, sure.

Leah: I mean, what if chicken wings and pudding is also their favorite meal? Now we've got 20 minutes of conversation done.

Nick: I definitely would have some follow-up questions. Yes.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So our next question is quote, "I just ordered coffee after a fine meal in a very nice restaurant. It was a French press, which I also brew at home, so I watched it sit for a while trying to figure out if I was to press it or wait. I opted to wait. And indeed, the waiter came along and pressed and poured. But was I correct to not take matters into my own hands?"

Leah: It reminded me of that Madonna, Justin Timberlake—is Britney Spears also in that song where they go, "We only got four minutes to save the world!"

Nick: [laughs] Okay. I mean, four minutes is a very popular time for French presses. So I think that song would be apropos.

Leah: I just heard it in my head as I read this question.

Nick: But first, what is a French press? So for anybody who doesn't know, it's called different things around the world, but I think we've probably all seen them. It's like a glass cylinder, and you put coarse coffee in the bottom and you pour water on that—hot water—and then there's, like, a little mesh screen that goes in this cylinder. And after the coffee's been, like, brewing for four minutes, if you want four minutes, or some people do like up to eight minutes—that feels a little long for me. But there is a lot of ink spilled in terms of the proper brew time for a French press, but whatever the time is for you. But once that's done, on that screen, it's attached to, like, a little plunger thing and then you, like, plunge it down and the coffee without the grinds goes through the screen. And so above the screen you have, like, coffee to pour. And then we pour coffee. Very hard actually, to describe a French press in a podcast format, I just realized. But hopefully you get the idea. I will post a link to this in the show notes in case anybody did not get what I was talking about.

Leah: Also, visually, it's like—it's just like a glass colander with, like, a little handle usually.

Nick: Yeah, it's like a little glass pitcher. And then in it there's, like, a little plunger that, like, pushes down the grounds. I don't know why we're making this so complicated.

Leah: Because that's—we're fun.

Nick: That's what we do. That's—that's how we do it. And so that's the French press. And so I guess my question is: how fancy of a place is this? Because there is a type of dining which is like, I don't do anything for myself, you know? These are the types of restaurants that, like, they put the napkin in your lap. You know, for that kind of place, then I would say let them plunge.

Leah: Yeah. I would—when I have a fine meal, a very nice restaurant, I thought they plunge.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, if it's the type of place that they bring you, like, the carafe of water and you're expected to, like, pour your own water, then it's probably a help yourself situation with the coffee.

Leah: I think that if you wanted to plunge, plunge away.

Nick: Yes. I think if the time had elapsed and they were nowhere to be seen, and you wanted the coffee. Yeah, I think you could plunge. Sure. Actually, I'm reminded I was somewhere recently where I actually got French press coffee, and they actually brought it with a little egg timer for four minutes.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: And so they, like, brought the coffee, brought the egg timer. And then it was sort of like, I guess the idea is that if they had not returned by that time, then I could do it, or this was their signal to, like, come back when the egg timer ran out. And I thought, oh, that's kind of cool.

Leah: Yeah, I love a plan of attack. Like, if you're dropping off a French press, and I want to know—you know, how do you—what if you'd never seen a French press? And you're like, "Are you pushing? Am I pushing?"

Nick: Or does it need to be pushed?

Leah: Does it need to be pushed? Some people might not even know we're pushing, you know what I mean? So ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: ... I think it would be great if someone, when it's dropped off, they'd be like, "I'll be back in four minutes to ..."

Nick: Well normally, they actually would say something. I mean, they'll be like, "I'll be back," or, like, "Let that sit for four minutes." Like, usually there'll be some instruction just to make sure that everybody knows what's happening. But yeah, absent that, then I think you just wait. Now if it arrives at your table already plunged, well then, voila.

Leah: Voila!

Nick: So there's that.

Leah: So I think if there's no plan of attack when they drop it off, you wait your allotted time. If you don't see them, feel free to plunge.

Nick: Plunge away.

Leah: Unless you don't want to plunge, and then just keep waiting.

Nick: [laughs] Forever. Until the restaurant closes.

Leah: Yeah. You're sitting there, the lights are off, and you can be like, "I wasn't given directions. I'm waiting for you to plunge."

Nick: [laughs] So you could do it that way. Absolutely. Yeah. Love iced coffee. So do you have questions for us about plunging or not plunging? Let us know! You can let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently. Or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I would love—I feel like you always let me go first. So I would love for you to feel like you get to go first.

Nick: I mean, happy to. So for me, I would like to vent.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And for today ...

Leah: You had me there for a second.

Nick: I was in group fitness, which is typically your domain but sometimes I dabble. And I am reminded I don't enjoy group fitness because they are cesspools of bad etiquette. And so I forgot this, I guess. And so I signed up for a weekend boot camp-y CrossFit-ish type of thing. And so here I'm in the class, and we're about to do a thing where there are rowing machines involved. And so it's gonna be me and another person—we'll call him Chad, and then other people who are doing something and then, like, we switch. And so I'm setting up the rower, and I actually like rowing a lot. It's actually one of the few cardio machines that I actually like. And I've actually logged a lot of meters on a rowing machine. I've probably done a couple million meters.

Leah: Whoo!

Nick: Yeah. No, actually, I'm kind of into it. It's very meditative, and so I like it. And so I'm setting up the machine, and Chad, who actually is quite tall, so actually physically, like definitely more of the body type that, like, rowing is designed for. You know, you've seen these people who do crew. Like, nobody is under six feet. Chad is, like, looking over at my rower and he says to me, "Oh, I think that damper setting is gonna be a bit high for you. You should bring that down to a five."

Leah: Mm-mm.

Nick: [laughs] And Chad, throughout this whole class had that vibe with the instructors, which was like, "If you need me to, like, jump in here and teach, like, I'm available. Like, I got this. Like, you need me—you need me to jump in? I can correct people's form, no problem." And so, like, he had that vibe and so, like, this was just like more of that. And it was directed at me, which was like, oh, I don't care for that. I don't care for that at all.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Because also it was sort of like, I also do really actually know what I'm doing on this machine. Like, of all the things in the gym, like, this is a machine I actually know what's happening on and it's like, don't correct me. And so I just looked at him and I was like, "Oh, this is good for me, but thank you." And I tried to do that in my most non-judgmental, value-neutral way. I don't know if I achieved that, but that was the goal. And so like, okay, fine. So we begin, and it was only like 200 meters or something, so actually not a long amount of rowing. But I look over to this Chad guy and he is flailing, he's yanking that chain. It's flying all over the place. His timing is all off. And so I finish way before he does. Like, half the amount of time. And so I was like, oh, that's satisfying. And so we complete the workout, but then as we're leaving the gym, he comes up to me and he's like, "Oh, you were better on the rower than I was expecting. Nice job." And I was sort of like ... [laughs]

Leah: What is happening?

Nick: Oh, we—oh, could not just leave it alone. Could not leave it alone! So I was like, "Thank you. I enjoy rowing. And I just left it at that. [laughs]

Leah: Wow! Wow! And I imagine you were like, "You were so much worse."

Nick: Yeah. I wanted to be like, "Oh, well, you know, if you had any experience on the rower, you would know you did it wrong." But no, he can be on his own journey. Sure. But I mean, what is happening in this world?

Leah: What is happening?

Nick: What is happening in this world? So for the record, I do enjoy rowing. I know how to do it. And so your feedback is not required.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I think that's a solid line for people because this happens at the gym so much. "Your feedback is not required. But thank you so much!"

Nick: Thank you so much. And you, Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: You know, I'm going to vent.

Nick: All right. So what has happened?

Leah: So I was at a—I was an audience member at a theater solo performance.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And it was a comic doing a one-person show. And it was about a very hard time in their life, it was the passing of some—a family member. And it was, like, a very well done show. So thoughtful and sad, and then also like the perfect moments of comedy. Great show. And right at the most emotional point, in the most tender moments, these people behind me started talking.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: This person is giving their heart on stage, their performance also about a very traumatic time of their life, and people—and I think they think they're whispering because they're using that whisper voice, which actually is almost louder than a regular voice.

Nick: [laughs] Right. Yeah. I don't know why people think this is effective.

Leah: And, you know, I feel for the person on stage—the most inopportune moment. And so I kind of do the look over the shoulder.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: Like, "What?" And then I noticed the person I'm with is also looking over their shoulder, like, "Are you—are you serious right now?"

Nick: Wow!

Leah: Not only are you talking in a small, intimate theater, but you're talking during the most heart-bleeding moment of the whole thing. I just—I can't. I can't!

Nick: Yeah, that—I mean, it's rude to, I think, interrupt any performance, but also, like, pick your timing.

Leah: Pick your timing!

Nick: If you gotta check in on, like, oh, how the game was last night, at least wait until, like, the applause break.

Leah: Yeah, wait until, like, not when the person is pouring their heart out on stage and it's the most quiet because everybody's about to cry, and then you're like, "Did you hear what I got as a text?" Okay, you need to be walked out. You need to be walked out.

Nick: And that whisper thing that people do, which is like not a whisper, it is louder, I think.

Leah: It, like, cuts through the air in this way because people are like, "Hey, did you hear my—" yeah, everybody can hear your ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Everybody can hear it. That's not a whisper.

Nick: Yeah. It's like, "I didn't realize you put raisins in potato salad, but that sounds like a good idea for later. Let's make sure we stop by the supermarket on the way home. Oh, Is she dead yet on stage? How much more is there?" [laughs] Yeah, I don't know what we do with this.

Leah: And then afterwards it was like—you know, it was like a small theater, so we're all outside and I just kept staring. I couldn't stop staring at them, like, who are you?

Nick: I know. You wanted your stares to register. Like, "Oh, that person is staring at us because we were bad people earlier," and you want them to make that connection? They won't make that connection.

Leah: Oh, I don't even want them to make that connection. I didn't think that far ahead. I just can't stop staring. I want to be like, "What kind of a ..."

Nick: Oh, that's why I keep staring at people who do rude things. I do secretly hope that they'll realize.

Leah: They'll never realize. They live in a unreal world. I just want to be in their head and be like, "What part of you doesn't get how disruptive and incredibly rude you are?" Like—like I'm gonna somehow unlock the secret, but I never do.

Nick: Yeah, if we could figure that out though, because then we could figure out what can be done about it.

Leah: Is there a remedy? Some sort of an elixir?

Nick: Salve?

Leah: A vitamin perhaps?

Nick: Yeah. An injection? Is there molecular something something that sounds technical and scientific?

Leah: Could we get some nuclear fission involved? I don't know.

Nick: Yeh, is there quantum wave theory available to us somehow?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah, are there gluons? I feel like those could come in handy. I don't know. Well, I'm sorry that happened to you.

Leah: I'm sorry it happened to the person on stage is who I'm sorry it happened to.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, that is unfortunate, but I guess when you're professional, that's what you gotta deal with.

Nick: I wanted to go up to that person and be like, "Sorry the people behind me—sitting behind me are complete monsters." But I didn't want to—them to point out—I didn't want to obviously point out to them anything that was, like, not perfect. So I just was like, "You were fantastic."

Nick: Yeah. We still have our work cut out for us, Leah.

Leah: I guess we should just get on that. Maybe we should invent something that at least we put out into the world you shouldn't be doing this. So we can make a commercial like, "Do you have friends that talk in the theater? Give them one of these." And then it's sort of like zips their mouth shut for, like, 30 minutes.

Nick: [laughs] I mean, I feel like if there were a line of products we could sell on a late night infomercial that would solve this problem, I'm right there.

Leah: And so, like, some sort of an intense taffy that she sort of just can't work through.

Nick: [laughs] Oh! All right, an intense taffy. Okay. Intense taffy. And also, great name.

Leah: Intense taffy!

Nick: Yes. "Do you have a friend that won't stop talking at the wrong times? Intense taffy. Now in diet."

Leah: [laughs] Yes, please!

Nick: Okay. All right. I'm gonna call our R&D facility. We're gonna get some prototypes on our desk by Tuesday.

Leah: Let's get on it!

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned about suspended coffee.

Nick: Oh, yes!

Leah: I'm very pumped about it. Like, I'm just gonna start working it into my regular life.

Nick: And I'm going to take you in Naples and we will try it there.

Leah: I have it in my calendar, "Nick promised to take me to Naples."

Nick: [laughs] And I learned that you discovered food delivery quite late in life.

Leah: I did. And truth be told, I've still never used GrubHub.

Nick: Oh, it's great. You should get in on that.

Leah: I still walk out to pick up delivery, but I have seen a lot of the delivery robots. There's a lot of them in Los Angeles.

Nick: What?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: What is a delivery robot?

Leah: You haven't—you haven't seen one?

Nick: We do not have delivery robots in New York, as far as I know. Unless they just look like—unless they look like us.

Leah: No, they—they most certainly do not. I—no disrespect to delivery robots. You look fantastic, but you have your own look. And I talk to them just to be polite. "Oh, excuse me!" They actually wait for you. Like, if you're gonna walk in front of them, they back up. They must have sensors.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: I have videos on my phone. I'll send one to you.

Nick: Oh. I mean, I think it's a good idea for you to be polite to them because they'll remember during the AI takeover, who to save and who to get rid of.

Leah: They will. They'll have a picture of me being like, "Oh, excuse me!" and they'll be like, "Let that one be."

Nick: "We'll keep that one." Yeah.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note to my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, did you know you can support our show on Patreon?

Leah: Come check it out!

Nick: Please! Go to our website, click on "Monthly Membership" and see if it's something you'd like to do.

Leah: We started doing videos.

Nick: Yeah, they're cute!

Leah: And you can ask us questions at any time of day.

Nick: Yes, and we will answer them. You'll get VIP access to our thoughts—for better or for worse.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So please join us. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: I want to do a shout out cordials of kindness to Nat Goldberg, who took us out for the most lovely picnic at the park, and the most lovely, wonderful, surprised, delightful time.

Nick: I mean, that sounds great. And for me, I want to read a nice review we just got, which is quote, "This is my favorite podcast, and therefore makes Mondays my favorite day of the week. Nick and Leah solve every problem with humor and panache, and they're delightful, engaging and just the right amount of sassy. I am stressed about the day in the future when I've listened to every episode and have no more in reserve. Thank you, Nick and Leah, for making the world a brighter place."

Leah: That is so sweet.

Nick: Isn't that nice? And if you're worried about running out of episodes, go back to episode one. Go on the journey again. It is actually fascinating to see how this show has evolved and how we've evolved and how the questions have evolved. Like, actually it's a really interesting journey. So, like, if you're worried about no new episodes, go back to episode one and, like, do it again.

Leah: We've changed so much.

Nick: Oh, for sure. Yeah, I've listened to those early episodes and they're great, but definitely, like, our rhythm is different, our vibe is different. There was a time before Chad and Lisa were on the scene. Do you remember? There was a time.

Leah: I would say this probably happens with everybody who does a weekly, that we evolve.

Nick: Yes. Yeah. And if we had not evolved, well then what are we doing?

Leah: What are we doing?

Nick: So go on the journey with us again, and thank you for this great review. This makes our day.

Leah: It's so nice. It's so nice!

Nick: So thank you.

Leah: Thank you.