Sitting on Suitcases, Going on Ghost Tours, Being Disappointed by Mahi-Mahi, and More

Nick: Do you run out of the house in a hurry? Do you complain about free meals? Do you block conveyor belts at airports? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

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So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Ooh! Let's get in it!

Nick: So for today's amuse bouche, I want to talk about sitting on suitcases.

Leah: Oh, okay?

Nick: Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? [laughs]

Leah: Sitting on suitcases?

Nick: Sitting on suitcases?

Leah: Yes. I've seen people sit on their suitcase.

Nick: Okay. So this is something I do, and I don't know when I started doing it. And I don't think anybody else in my family does it. And I don't know where I picked it up. I think I might have picked it up in Bulgaria. I was in Bulgaria one year, and fun fact, I spent Thanksgiving one year at the McDonald's in Sofia.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And I gotta say, thanksgiving dinner with a Big Mac in Sofia with a friend was like the best Thanksgiving. That's a real sidebar.

Leah: That's lovely!

Nick: But I think that trip is where this came from. And what this is is a very ancient custom from Russia. And what it is is that before you go on a long trip, you are supposed to sit down quietly and then you can leave. That's what this is.

Leah: Oh, I thought people just needed a place to sit. I didn't know this was a custom that we were preparing for a good trip.

Nick: Yeah, this is a very old custom. And so before I ever go on a long trip—and this is like a trip, this is not just like, oh, I'm going to work for the day. This is like, oh, I'm packed my bags. We are going on a voyage. I always have my bags at the front door. I'm dressed, I'm ready to go. Often, like, the lights in the apartment are already off, like keys in the hand, and I'm ready to leave. But I sit down on the couch and I just give it a beat. You know, maybe it's 15 seconds, maybe 30 seconds, but you just sort of like, sit quietly, gather your thoughts, and then you leave the house.

Nick: And everybody in the house does it, even the people who aren't leaving. Like, we all sit down. And yes, you could actually literally sit on your suitcase. In Russian, like, there's an expression that is exactly that. Or you're just like, sitting down in a chair, and the bags are, like, near you. But the idea is that you are literally going from the seated position out the door in one fell swoop. You are then leaving in that moment. We're not doing anything else. And it's a great tradition. I really like it.

Leah: This is so interesting because I thought you were asking me about one thing, but it turns out it's a whole other thing.

Nick: I mean, welcome to our show.

Leah: Welcome to our show. And I really love it. That seems very good for, like, taking a moment. I'm getting to be here in this moment, and then we're going.

Nick: And there are a lot of origin stories for this, but the one that I like a lot is that in sort of folklore, Russian folklore, there are spirits. And of course, there are house spirits. And the spirit that lives in your house doesn't like when you leave.

Leah: Ooh!

Nick: They really don't like when you leave. And so the idea is if you sit quietly first, you will be tricking them into thinking that you're not really going on a trip. And when you trick them, then they won't meddle with your trip, I guess, or they won't cause you harm, or they won't try to come with you. And so you want to make sure that the house spirit is not angry. And also, if the house spirit is cool, then as you're sitting there, they might whisper in your ear, like, "Oh, did you forget your passport? Do you have everything you need?" They might help you out. And so you want to give that house spirit a little opportunity to, like, do you a solid.

Leah: Interesting.

Nick: Oh, there's actually a lot of really interesting things about leaving the house in Russian tradition. Like, there's a related tradition, which is if you leave the house but then forget something, like, oh, I forgot my wallet or I forgot my umbrella, and you come back into the house, some people will look in the mirror at themselves first and, like, give themselves a stare before they leave again as sort of like a reset.

Leah: Oh, wow!

Nick: Which is kind of interesting.

Leah: Yeah, very interesting.

Nick: Right? And so the idea of sitting down first so you don't forget something is sort of related, which is like, oh, if I don't forget anything, then I won't have to come back and, like, go through that ritual. So that's very interesting, I think.

Leah: It is. I mean, I always do, like, a moment before I leave. I'm not sitting down, but I very much like this whole sitting down as a group.

Nick: Yeah, I like the sitting down thing. And I do it, and it really does help me start a trip in, like, the right mindset. And I think you can say a prayer quietly if you want. You can make this your own tradition. The Russian way to do it would just be to sit quietly, maybe sort of gaze down. You could close your eyes, sort of moment of silence kind of vibes, but you could do it how you want. But I think we should all do this.

Leah: I love how I thought you were asking me if I've seen people sitting on their suitcases in airports.

Nick: Um, yeah, this is not that.

Leah: [laughs] It is so much more!

Nick: So much more. So sitting on suitcases. And last thing, I've actually heard it's a Russian idiom. And so if we have any Russian speakers out there, I'd be curious if this is really true. But the idea of sitting on suitcases is also an idiom that just means, like, "Oh, I was about to leave the house." So you could say in Russian, like, "Oh, I was sitting on suitcases, but, like, oh, then I got the call and I got the news." And what that means is, like, oh, I was just about to dash, but then the phone rang. And so the idea of, like, sitting on suitcases is that moment right before you leave the house. And so I love that there's an expression for that.

Leah: I'm gonna throw it out to some of my Russian friends just real cazh. Like, I'm gonna try to work it in and then see if that's a thing.

Nick: Yeah, see if it's a thing. I think it's a thing. I don't think the internet would lie to me.

Leah: The internet would never lie about anything.

Nick: Never! But definitely sitting on suitcases and pausing a beat before you go on a journey, that is definitely a thing, and everybody should do it.

Leah: I love it. I'm in.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and on a tour.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about ghost tours.

Leah: Finally! So seasonal, so autumnal, so spooky.

Nick: So I have never been on a ghost tour. But this is one of your go-tos.

Leah: This is one of my go-tos, Nicholas Layton.

Nick: And so tell me all about it. Well first, what is a ghost tour exactly, and why do you like it?

Leah: Okay, so for those of you who don't know—actually, when I travel, and Nick actually gifted us a ghost tour.

Nick: I did.

Leah: A Los Angeles one. So I'll do it in my own home. I think it's a great way to get to know a city because you're getting a tour of the city. And essentially, it's a historical tour.

Nick: Right.

Leah: It's a tour of where people have been murdered.

Nick: [laughs] And that's a throughline, right? I guess you don't get ghosts without murder.

Leah: Yeah. Or I mean, there could just be, like, an odd death. It could also be like a—you know, I went on a tour and Edgar Allan Poe was involved. and it wasn't where he had passed on, but it was—you know, there was a part of his history there. So you know what I mean? They will throw in ...

Nick: So there's always a macabre adjacency.

Leah: Yes. A little ...

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But I love it because it's an activity. You always learn things about the city. You get to see the city. And I love—most of them are walking tours. I love walking. I love walking. I love walking a city. I have been on ones that are going over such large areas that you're in a bus. Also enjoyed that. But my preference is to walk. I love it because I love the people who give the tours because they love it.

Nick: Right.

Leah: They're really in it, and they all have different skill sets. Like, some—I've been on ones where people become a character.

Nick: Okay. Like, I'm the dead woman from this house.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. Uh-huh.

Leah: And they give the tour as that character. They're in an outfit. They do not break character. They speak from whatever time. You know, it's fantastic.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: There are people that are just really into the stories. They'll give you the stories. They're storytellers. Then there are people that are just like, "These are the facts about this area." You know, everybody has, like, a different gift. I'm into all of it. However you tell it, I love it.

Nick: And I guess there is an element of actually trying to find ghosts, right? Because I feel like the tour that I got you for your birthday in Los Angeles, there was an option to add, like, some sort of ghost meter. Like, I could have added in, like, the free ghost detector package.

Leah: I did do a ghost detector in—I did it in two places.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: I did the ghost detector in Charleston, which if you're gonna go on a ghost tour, Charleston.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And the woman who—it was the lady that sold me. When you met her, you were like, "I just—I'm watching her." You know what I mean? She's—whether or not you believe in ghosts, you're into ghosts. I'm not a ghost person. I like the person giving the tour and the stories, but it's an energy reader, so it'll just go ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! And then you're with a group of people, and everybody's like, "Whoo!" You know, it's fun. It's a good time.

Nick: So let's get to the etiquette then, because it's a group of people, so obviously there's etiquette involved, but it does feel like there is something special about doing the ghost tour specifically.

Leah: Yeah, you need to be in. Like, don't—I don't need somebody who's there being like, "Well, I think that was—" you know, we're all in on this as a group.

Nick: I guess that is the bottom line. You gotta commit as an audience member.

Leah: You gotta commit. Be an audience member. Also, I will say one time I went too far. I was in Edinburgh, and I went to—I did two ghost tours. They're both fantastic, but I actually got scared on one of them.

Nick: What?

Leah: Because it was in catacombs, and it was totally unlit, so the only light was coming from you. And I was alone, and I just—it was too much because I was just underground for too long, and I was like, "I'm just gonna run up to this next group and join them." [laughs]

Nick: Okay. So other than, like, being a good sport, like, is that all we need to know?

Leah: I would also suggest—I don't—didn't come to hear you talking.

Nick: Mmm.

Leah: I came to hear the ghost tour giver talk. I want to know about the history of the area. I want to know all that stuff, so I don't need to hear your feedback constantly.

Nick: And I guess with the ghost tour, it is different than other walking tours in that the presentation, it's a show. At the end of the day, it is actually more of a show. It's more of a—just sort of a moving theatrical experience. And so I think those rules apply. The we need to be a good audience and let the performers perform.

Leah: Yeah. And even the ones where they're not—some people, their gift is not performing, but their gift is information.

Nick: Right.

Leah: I want to hear their information. I don't want to hear—you know, sometimes people will throw in a ghost story of their own, but then there are some times where people just will not stop talking.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then you just hope that you have a ghost tour giver who is also able to be a little bit of a bouncer.

Nick: And I guess that's just a good walking tour rule in general. I guess that's sort of universal. Yeah.

Leah: Please don't talk constantly.

Nick: Please don't talk constantly. Yes.

Leah: I would also say it's always, like, a very random place you're meeting at a very specific time. So on both sides, you know, the tour givers and the people attending, we all gotta be on time.

Nick: Oh, for sure.

Leah: Oh, I will also say I did go on this one tour where I'm very sure that the person giving the tour did not have, you know—they take you in the backs of places. They take you into buildings. I'm very sure that this person had never asked permission. And so we went into the ...

Nick: You're just trespassing?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: We went into the back of this one building, and as we were going in, I realized, oh, I think we're trespassing. And he was like, "Oh, we gotta go" And I was like, I'm not—I don't wanna go on this one again.

Nick: Yeah. No, that's a good etiquette tip. Don't trespass.

Leah: Yeah. So, you know, I would look at the reviews, make sure that you're going with a tour that, you know, does these regularly.

Nick: A reputable ghost tour. Right.

Leah: Unless you're into that, you know, and you wanna feel like you are living on the edge or breaking the law, which I do not. That's not how I enjoy myself.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, in terms of etiquette, I don't know what we as guests can do on that front, but certainly if you were leading a tour, the etiquette is to not get your tour arrested.

Leah: Yes. That would be the dream. I also had the last one I went to, these people show up after they'd had a few too many. I think they thought, "Oh, this is a great night!" But then it really sort of takes over the whole group.

Nick: Yeah. I think you want to be present for the ghost tour.

Leah: Because a part of them is like—you know, on that one, we were in the fog. It was dark. Like, that was a whole part of the whole thing, you know?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Sort of the silence and then this person telling the story, and then you having, like, the drunk hiccups and talking loudly is throwing everybody out of it.

Nick: And I guess it's fine to not believe in ghosts and do this, right? That's fine.

Leah: Yes. I don't think it has anything to do with it. You're there for the stories.

Nick: Well, I don't know. I think you could be there for the ghosts.

Leah: You could be there for the ghosts if you're a ghost person. But, I mean, I don't go to see The Wizard of Oz because I believe that the house actually fell on a witch. You know what I mean? I'm there for the show.

Nick: Okay. Yeah, I think actually, that's probably the perfect way to put it. That's right.

Leah: And I think it's like, if you're a person who travels a lot, it's like a thing to do. It's an activity.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I always tip at the end.

Nick: Oh, that's a good—that's good. You gotta tip.

Leah: Just a little something something.

Nick: Yeah, you gotta tip. Tipping is required. That's true.

Leah: I feel like that really covers it.

Nick: Okay. So knowing what you know about me, would I like it?

Leah: Yes, I think you would. You know, because especially, like, an area, like, a downtown area that has, like, a cobblestone street, particularly if they're on, like, a port of some sort, there are just so many good stories.

Nick: Yeah. A lot of people got thrown into that water.

Leah: Yeah. You know, and so you walk along the town, and it's always at a beautiful time of night, you know, when, like, the lights are coming. It's just fantastic.

Nick: That's right. I guess there's not, like, brunch ghost tours.

Leah: No, it's an evening thing.

Nick: Okay, well, I'm gonna—I'm gonna try one. I'm gonna try one. I'm gonna—maybe I'll do a New York. I guess we must have ghost tours here.

Leah: There are great ones in Washington, DC. I'm sure there must—oddly, I've actually never been to one in New York, but I'm sure there's tons.

Nick: Oh, okay. Well, next time you're in town, Leah, let's go on a ghost tour.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Let's have a date night. Okay.

Leah: Let's do that!

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Let's absolutely do that.

Nick: Okay. Oh, it's a date.

Leah: Date! There it is!

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "I have been teaching at the same school for 30 years and rarely missed a day. Recently, I had to take medical leave for three months because of a knee surgery. Our school claims to promote belonging and inclusion, yet no one in my teaching team, nor in the administration, has reached out to see how I'm doing and it's been three weeks since my surgery. Is there an etiquette rule about this? The lack of communication feels exclusive and rude. Maybe I'm just being oversensitive? So, I'd appreciate your thoughts."

Leah: Yeah, I don't like this at all.

Nick: Uh, yeah. This is gross.

Leah: Gross. Rude. 30 years!

Nick: 30 years you've been at this school. That's a lot of years.

Leah: Also, I'm sending good vibes for your knee.

Nick: Yes. I hope you're on the mend and going to be back soon so we can confront these people.

Leah: Yes, let's confront.

Nick: So, yeah. I mean, is there an etiquette rule about this? No, not necessarily, but I think there's like a human decency.

Leah: Human decency.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Jinx. We just jinxed each other on human decency.

Nick: Right? It's like a decent thing to do. So yeah, I mean, I was thinking like, is there a benefit of the doubt explanation here? And the best I could come up with is that these people feel like, "Oh, we don't want to bother you." And so I guess that's the most charitable explanation for why nobody's reached out because they want to give you space.

Leah: Yes, I could imagine all of them at the same time thinking, "She's been here 30 years. She's never taken time off. We don't want her to feel like she has to do any work. So, let's all give her space."

Nick: Yes. "Let's not remind her of work." Right.

Leah: So that is the charitable read.

Nick: I don't love this.

Leah: I do not love it. I almost would want to send a group email and be like, "Hey, I want you to know that my surgery went well. I'm home recovering" and then see what the follow ups are.

Nick: Yeah, I guess I want some acknowledgment from these people that I mattered in their lives. Right?

Leah: We're giving them the opportunity to be like, "Oh, we were thinking about you, but we didn't want to bother you."

Nick: Right.

Leah: You're giving them that opportunity.

Nick: Yeah. And this actually reminded me of people that are like actually in mourning or going through a loss where nobody reaches out to, like, send condolences because they're like, "Oh, I didn't want to bother them" or "I didn't know what to say." And I wonder if there's a little of that flavor too, which is like, "Oh, I don't know what to say when somebody has knee surgery. So I'm just going to say nothing."

Leah: I do think it's a thing that happens because I often when something happens for somebody, I get nervous about what I'm saying. But then I think, just say something so they know you're thinking of them, and then also make sure they know that they don't have to do any work. They don't have to call me back. They don't have to show up for anything. I'm just thinking of them.

Nick: Yeah. Like, "Hey, no need to call me back. Just thinking of you. Hope you're doing well." Boom.

Leah: So I do like this idea. Let's send a group email. I want you to know it went well. Then if that's what it is, then they will reply back. And then if that's not, nobody replies back. Then we hate them for the rest of their lives.

Nick: I mean, if nobody replies back then please let us know because we're gonna have to brainstorm the next move. Which is...

Leah: Then we're gonna have to get some addresses.

Nick: Yeah, We're gonna have to show up. I mean, actually, if you send an email saying that you're doing well and no one responds? Yeah, you actually have to tell us where this is happening and I will book flights immediately. Like, I would show up at the school and it'd be like, "Hey, this person just had knee surgery. Nobody said anything. She sent an email. Nobody said anything. What is wrong with you?"

Leah: They've been there 30 years.

Nick: I would call an assembly.

Leah: I would go to Nick's assembly.

Nick: We're gonna have a very special assembly. Take everybody in the middle of the day. Everybody into the gym. Let's go. Nick's here.

Leah: Nick's here. And we are thinking of you and your knee. And I hope you're getting to watch some really trash TV and having fun snacks.

Nick: Yes. And if you need any ideas for trashy TV to watch, Leah and I are experts, so we have ideas for you.

Leah: We are actually, unfortunately, very truly experts on trash television.

Nick: Yeah, that's not a joke. Yeah, so if you want to know which season of "Love Island Australia" to start with, we can give you a definitive answer.

So our next question is quote, "What do you say when you treat someone to a meal, and then after they eat, they complain about the food? Recently, I took my mom to a four-star restaurant. The waitstaff checked in, and she said everything was fine. But after the meal, she told me her meal was 'too salty, too tough, and bad for my blood pressure.' Another time, my spouse and I treated a married couple, the wife's sister and their son, to a dinner out. Our wait person checked in, and no one complained. But after the meal was finished and paid for, the wife's sister and I used the restroom where she shared with me that she was, quote, 'Very disappointed in the mahi mahi.' And then my spouse and I took both sets of parents out to an excellent restaurant. My father-in-law told everyone after the meal that his Brussels sprouts were quote, 'burnt to ashes,' but he ate them. Again, the waitstaff checked in, but no issue was raised. Each time I said, 'I wish you said something sooner. We could have sent it back.' I would never complain about a gift, whether it be an item or a meal, so I'm unsure what to make of this. Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening again?"

Leah: I want to say up top, people just love to complain. It's like a part of the thing is they want to—like, they wouldn't have been taken out to dinner if they couldn't complain about it.

Nick: Yeah. That's the first thing I wrote down, which is it sounds like these are people who just like to complain. [laughs] Yeah. I mean, some people can't be pleased. Also, complaining is a sport for some people. It is a sport. So, like, that's also just kind of what it is.

Leah: I almost feel like you could say, "Hey, we wanted to take you out to dinner, but I feel like every time we take you out, you don't enjoy it. So what would you like to do?"

Nick: Oh!

Leah: And they say, "No, I love it!" And then you say, "Oh, but you always complain."

Nick: [laughs] I love that approach. Can you imagine? Can you imagine saying that?

Leah: Yes, I can. I can absolutely imagine. Because the idea that you're constantly taking people out to dinner and they're constantly complaining about it would grate on my nerves.

Nick: Yeah, I don't like that these are gifts and you've treated me, and I'm basically saying, "I didn't like your gift." I mean, that's what we're saying here.

Leah: It's rude!

Nick: It is rude. Now I will say complaining to the waiter, like, unless it's totally not what I ordered or there's, like, a safety issue. I'm not gonna send something back. I don't think I've ever sent something back that was not what I ordered. Like, if I ordered the burger and you brought me the fish, then obviously I'm gonna say something. But if it isn't that, I would never complain to a waiter. Like, I just won't go back.

Leah: I mean, you know I'm not complaining to waiters.

Nick: Well, I didn't even bother asking you.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So I think the idea of, like, "Oh, the waiter checked in and you said it was fine." I get why we wouldn't say something to the waiter. Like, I get why we wouldn't.

Leah: Yeah. But also, their food was absolutely fine. It was fine. That's why they ate it all. They just want to have something to complain about.

Nick: Yeah. Now I will say, I've been to plenty of restaurants where yeah, something wasn't to my liking or wasn't optimal, and I might have said something to the people I was dining with, like, "Oh, this is not quite—" like, "Oh, here's my thoughts on this." But we're all paying our own way. Nobody bought me that meal, so I think there is a difference.

Leah: Yeah. If somebody buys me a meal, I'm a-zippin' my lips.

Nick: "This was great. Thank you so much. What a treat. What a lovely evening."

Leah: "Thank you so much!"

Nick: Yeah. So yeah, this is rude. So your suggestion is don't basically dine with them again/

Leah: No. You give them the option, "I would love to take you out to dinner. It seems like you don't enjoy it. Is there something you would prefer to do?" And then they'll go, "What?"

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then you go, "Oh, you never like the food."

Nick: Okay, let's put that on the whiteboard. Another option would be, "I would love to take you out for dinner. Why don't you pick, because I don't seem to be doing a great job with that?" Or some better way to say that.

Leah: It's literally the same thing I said, just with different words.

Nick: [laughs] But different words matter. Somehow my thing was better.

Leah: I don't know.

Nick: Okay. All right, so those are both 1A and 1B. Those are very related. Okay. What about asking them during the meal? So not letting the waiter ask but, like, oh, we're enjoying our meal. I'm like, "Oh, Leah, how are your Brussels sprouts?" And giving you the opportunity to weigh in in that moment.

Leah: Yeah, but then if they complain, then is it any better than if they complain later?

Nick: Well, but then could I be like, "Oh, should we say something to the waiter?" Oh, yeah. No, I guess then you are still just complaining. Yeah. Okay. That's not good. I mean, I like the idea of asking you during the meal so that at least you're on record of having complained during the meal rather than after the fact. Because after the fact, we can't do anything about it. Although none of these complaints are, like, really legitimate.

Leah: No, they're just—it's like a gut reaction. People will be like, "You know what? I didn't—" you know what I mean? They just gotta complain.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, being disappointed in mahi mahi, I don't think that's a reason to send mahi-mahi back.

Leah: Nick, very disappointed in the mahi mahi.

Nick: [laughs] Very. Yeah, I'm not disappointed. I'm very disappointed.

Leah: I would have been like, "Oh, the free mahi mahi? Was it not up to your standards? The free mahi mahi?"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I just can't. It's too far for me that you're paying for people, you treated a married couple, the wife's sister, and their son. So four people you've taken out. The wife's sister, so not even your friend, right? It's your friend's sister.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And she's gonna come to the bathroom with you and complain about the fish? No.

Nick: Also, I wonder how that even came up. You're just, like, washing your hands and they're like, "That mahi mahi? I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed."

Leah: I would love if you were actually peeing. They went into the next stall. While you peed, they stuck their head under and they go, "I'm so disappointed in the mahi mahi."

Nick: [laughs] I don't know why I find that so funny.

Leah: I do, too. But, I mean, the drama of being very disappointed.

Nick: The drama! "[laughs] "Mahi mahi. Very disappointing." Yes.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: It's wonderful.

Leah: I would want to be like, "Who are you?" That's what I want to say.

Nick: Now short of having this sort of like, "Oh, I clearly can't please you with my restaurant suggestions approach," do we just not treat people? Like, maybe that's the solution. Like, I just don't want to treat you to dinner anymore.

Leah: I mean, that's, I think, totally fair. That's within the— "I don't want to treat you to dinner anymore. You always complain, and it makes me feel bad. I don't want to feel bad anymore. We're allowed to not feel bad anymore."

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have permission. You definitely have permission. Or do we treat you, but we just don't treat you to a nice meal? So I'm not gonna try to actually treat you to anything fancy or nice.

Leah: I mean, you could go in hard.

Nick: Uh-oh!

Leah: And when they say—see, it's one thing to say it to your mom. I don't know if we could say it to—we can't say it to our spouse's family. I mean, you could go in. If somebody says, "Mahi mahi, I'm so disappointed."

Nick: "Very disappointed!"

Leah: You could say, "Oh, I would take it personally since I wanted to treat you." Just reminding them I treated you.

Nick: Mmm.

Leah: "But I get the idea that you love to complain."

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: You could just say it in the moment. Just say it in the moment. You're just being honest. You're letting them know. "That would hurt my feelings because I treated you. But I feel like you not being happy is what makes you happy. So I'm gonna let this go."

Nick: "So then in some way, did I actually make you have a nice evening because you got to do the thing you enjoy doing?"

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Which is complaining.

Leah: That's—but I would just mention, "I would take this personally because this was a gift to you. But I feel like you need to complain in order to have a nice evening. And I know that it makes you feel better. So in the end, you're just having a nice evening, which is what I wanted. So you're welcome. You are welcome."

Nick: So mahi mahi is a red herring.

Leah: I mean, that could work.

Nick: Or could we play a game and, like, do a tally and be like, "Oh, can we get to 10 in this meal?"

Leah: As a way to lighten it?

Nick: "Free dessert for everybody if you complain 10 times in the next hour."

Leah: Oh, you could have, like, a little sheet of paper and put a thing on it. And then somebody will go, "What are you doing?" And you go, "Oh, I'm taking a tab for every time you complain."

Nick: Yeah, I think make a game of it. I think if you could have fun with it, that's a great way to approach this.

Leah: I feel like we've thrown a lot of options out there.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Some of them more edgy than others, but I feel like this is rude and you can act accordingly.

Nick: But somehow I do want to work the phrase "Very disappointed in the mahi mahi" into my life. I don't know how yet, but I feel like I gotta work that in. That has to be part of ...

Leah: It's gotta be somewhere.

Nick: It's gotta be somewhere.

Leah: If we had titles to our episodes.

Nick: We do have titles for our episodes.

Leah: No, but I mean like a title that's like a pull quote as opposed to ...

Nick: Sure. Although I feel like the title of this episode, one of the phrases will be "Being disappointed by mahi mahi." I think we're gonna throw that in the title for this one.

Leah: Oh, wonderful. Wonderful.

Nick: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we can accommodate. So speaking of rude things said to your face, SaidtoMyFace.com. it's one of our new features. Leah? We're expecting ...

Leah: I'm gonna go even harder on the way I was doing it. "No, you didn't!"

Nick: Oh! Oh, I like that variation.

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: So as you know, these are submissions from you all in the wilderness of rude things that have been said to your face. And they are so wonderful. So I pulled a few from the hat. The first one is quote, "At a Christmas party, someone I just met said, 'I would rather stick a fork in my eye than continue to talk to you.' AT A CHRISTMAS PARTY!"

Leah: Talk about antithetical Christmas spirit.

Nick: I don't know why the line "AT A CHRISTMAS PARTY!" which is in all caps, makes me giggle so hard. I mean, I think ... [laughs]

Leah: Who is this person that would say such a thing?

Nick: I just love the idea of, like, at a Christmas party. Can you imagine?

Leah: Like, sleigh bells jingling in the background? Ugh, brutal!

Nick: I just love the idea. Just to be at a cocktail party, and you're just, like, having a nice time. You're mingling, you're having some mulled wine, and someone's like, "I'd rather stick a fork in my eye."

Leah: I'd be like, "What just happened?"

Nick: It's also—I mean, what a thing to say. Because what a weird expression.

Leah: But also, the drama. The drama! Oh, are we talking? Wow!

Nick: Right? Oh, you know that mahi mahi I just had?

Leah: I know, I know. Very disappointed in the mahi mahi.

Nick: I'd rather stick a fork in my eye than eat more of that very disappointing mahi mahi.

Leah: All these people are definitely in the same group.

Nick: [laughs] Another great submission we got is quote, "You said, 'Who are these people who don't want their bagel toasted?' I died! Don't judge me on my untoasted bagel until you've had the plain Montreal bagel fresh out of the oven. Toasting is for bagels that have cooled down, and New York bagels and airport bagels. Thank you. Have a fantastic day. Love you both."

Leah: And our letter-writer did say that they're submitting this under the rudest thing ever because they think it's a funny place to put it.

Nick: Right. Yes. So we are getting called out for saying something. Right.

Leah: We're getting called out.

Nick: Which is we did say that we do not understand who goes through life with untoasted bagels. I mean, I said it.

Leah: We did say it, and I knew we were gonna get blowback because we are never so—but I also want to say ...

Nick: Uh-huh? Oh, you're gonna double down?

Leah: No, I'm not gonna double down. I am pretty sure—maybe it was on a Patreon, but I thought I did mention how Montreal bagels are particularly wonderful.

Nick: You do come to the defense of Montreal baked goods quite often. That's true.

Leah: And I would not consider any baked good out of the oven. That I'm not comparing toasted to out of the oven. It's still warm.

Nick: Oh, Leah. Oh, Leah.

Leah: It's warm. We were talking about warm bagels versus cold bagels.

Nick: No, no, no, no, no. But toasted changes the texture of the inner surface.

Leah: I understand that, but what I'm saying is what I have a problem with is the cold.

Nick: We're gonna get more letters, Leah.

Leah: That's fine.

Nick: We're gonna get more letters now.

Leah: I hope we do. I have a problem with the cold bagel.

Nick: Sure. Oh, absolutely.

Leah: If you were like, "Do you want a bagel out of the oven?" Yes, I do. Absolutely I do.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: I'm just saying that I'm not comparing those two. I was comparing cold versus warm in my mind.

Nick: I see. So toasted was just shorthand for a warmed bagel.

Leah: Something that has been heat—obviously, I don't really want it in a microwave.

Nick: No.

Leah: Because that's aggressive.

Nick: Right. Yeah, I do still want even a bagel out of the oven. I do like it now sliced, and then I do want the textural evolution that takes place with some toasting. So I will still say even in Montreal.

Leah: [gasps]

Nick: Even in Montreal, I would like it toasted. Unless the way it's done in Montreal is to never have it toasted. If that is the local etiquette, then I will follow the local procedure. I don't know enough about Montreal bagel etiquette to know whether or not toasting is forbidden.

Leah: What I'm saying is in my mind, we weren't looking at other options. So that's on us for not putting on also warm from the oven. I was thinking about it as toasted versus cold, not toasted versus out of the oven versus cold. Is that clear?

Nick: You are on—you are on record and you will not get any more mail.

Leah: Whether or not think toasted is—I'm fine if I get mail. But what I'm saying is I'm glad they brought this up because there is another option that we completely blanked because I wasn't thinking about it.

Nick: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. We cannot always cover every permutation of every topic in every episode. It's true. We will leave things on the table unsaid.

Leah: And this is very important. If we were talking about baked goods, it's very important. I'm glad they wrote it in. So I'm saying it's not that we weren't talking badly about it, we just weren't even talking about it, which is disrespectful in its own right.

Nick: Fair enough. Our bad.

Leah: And I'm not saying which one I prefer. I'm just saying it was not brought up. So we apologize.

Nick: Well, do you want to say which one you prefer? You want to go on the record?

Leah: No.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Woman of mystery.

Leah: [laughs] Just like when you go to a ghost tour, how you actually feel about ghosts is irrelevant.

Nick: That's your job.

Leah: Just be in the moment. I go to Montreal, you give me that warm Montreal bagel.

Nick: That's it.

Leah: I'm anywhere else? Toast it for me.

Nick: So thank you for sending this in. If you have anything you want to send us, SaidtoMyFace.com. And of course, please send us your questions, your vents, your repents, all of your submissions. Visit our website WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently. Or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: You know, it's been this weird place where I feel like I have really nothing to complain about.

Nick: Wow! You're just not paying attention.

Leah: No, I am. It's just nothing has bothered me enough. Maybe I'm just getting better at deep breathing. Or the egregious things that I've done in the past week, I've reached out immediately and been like, "I was thinking about that and I want to apologize." Or I had one yesterday where I was like, "I'm gonna let that sit. And it is what it is. And I don't feel bad about it." So ...

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: I think it's sort of, you know, next week I'll probably have 30, but this week I was like, I feel okay.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But I did have this one thing, but it's not—it didn't—it's just minor.

Nick: Okay, we'll take it.

Leah: I'm coming back from a gig. I'm gonna fill up before I drive back to LA.

Nick: Of gas in a car?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. Clarify.

Leah: So it's late. It's late enough. So, like, you know, lights are on.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I'm signaled to go over to the turning lane. The only place to go in this turning lane is a big gas station. That's the only place. This person pulls also in front of me. We are now driving together. We are clearly all going to the same place. They pull in front of me. They signal. Then we both wait at the light, signaling, the only place we can be going is into the gas station. It's the only turn. We drive in. There is one lane open. Like everybody else has a car. She drives to the front and stops, as opposed to driving up to the second—the second pump.

Nick: So just for the geography, we have a gas station. All the pumps are filled, except there is a lane totally open that has two pumps.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so what normal people would do is pull all the way up to the farthest pump, allowing space behind you for someone else to drive and use that pump.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: And so she chose not to do that.

Leah: She chose not to do that. And I just was like, what a nincompoop. What a nincompoop.

Nick: What a great word!

Leah: You know, that's all I could—I wasn't that like—but I was just like, we're all going this way. There's no other way to go. And even if I wasn't directly behind you, you should pull up.

Nick: Yeah, it doesn't matter. You should always just pull up. Right. It's what you do. So you had to, like, drive around and then back into the spot?

Leah: No, there was, like, one far down that I could turn, but I had to drive all the way around.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: And then I got out of the car, and I was like, I just want to go look at this person.

Nick: Oh, okay. Always a good idea.

Leah: I just want to go see.

Nick: And did that person look like you thought they would look like?

Leah: Yes, they did. I got there. It was like a girl, and she literally—she gets out of the car and then stands by the gas, but then gets on her phone.

Nick: Oh, are you not supposed to do that? Or is that like an old wives' tale?

Leah: What do you mean? What's the old wives' tale?

Nick: There's, like, a thing where you're not supposed to be, like, on your cell phone while you're pumping gas. Because, like, somehow if you get a call coming in, it could, like, spark the vapor.

Leah: No, that is not real. I mean, someone's gonna write us in and say, that's real. But if that's real at this point—but she's just standing there on her phone, like, out. I was like ...

Nick: Of course.

Leah: I mean—you know what I mean? But just so oblivious to anybody around her.

Nick: I mean, I guess I appreciate that it wasn't personal.

Leah: It wasn't personal at all.

Nick: It's just how she lives her life.

Leah: Just pull up. Why are you not pulling up to the first? That is a nincompoop. Just pull up to the thing.

Nick: Yeah, I mean, how hard is that?

Leah: How hard is that? It's literally, like, the easiest thing.

Nick: So for me, I would also like to vent. And so I was traveling recently, and we talk a lot about TSA security and, like, getting ready for security and, like, getting your belt off and all that. So we've really covered the before you go through the metal detector part, but there's the you've gone through the metal detector, and you're about to pick up your bags on the other side.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I feel like we do not discuss this enough.

Leah: No, I think you're right.

Nick: We did not discuss that part. And no, we need to. And so it's always maddening. It's always maddening. You know, people just don't know how to get recombobulated. Like, they just don't know. But I am waiting for my bag to come out of the machine, and there is a woman standing right at the spout, right at the place where bags come out. And she had come through the metal detector after me, which means her bags are behind mine on the belt.

Nick: And I, like a good citizen, give a nice buffer away from that conveyor belt in case anybody else needs to get in there, because I'm not gonna crowd it. So there was obviously a space for someone else to actually get in there right up at the belt, which she decided to do. And so now she's standing right at the spout. And as, you know, as bags are coming out, and if they're in those plastic bins, sometimes those plastic bins sort of back up.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: And so bags don't necessarily move freely until people actually get their bags. And so my bag is coming, and she's standing there. And so I say to her in a very nice way, "Oh, I'm so sorry. Let me get that out of your way."

Leah: Oh, so nice!

Nick: And that was my way of basically saying, like, you are in the way here and you need to move because you're blocking everybody. Like, that was the subtext. But what I said was like, "Oh, let me get that out of your way. Let me do something for your convenience." And she says in a tone which is like, I don't get it at all, "Oh, no problem." And it's sort of like, no, no, no. No, that's not what this is. Yeah, it is no problem for me because I'm not the problem here. You're the problem. And so I get my bag, and then she crowds the belt again, and my second bag is coming down, and I'm like, "Oh, so sorry. Let me get that one, too." And she's like, "Oh, no, it's fine." And it's like, no, no, no. You still don't get it. You are blocking everybody. What is wrong with you? And so it just feels like maybe I'm being too subtle.

Leah: [laughs] It almost feels like you should be like, "No, I actually meant you're in the way. And I'm trying to be polite, but you're not getting it."

Nick: I mean, so often when I'm actually trying to get by somebody who's blocking me, I'll be like, "Oh, sorry. Let me sneak by." Like, I definitely have very meek phrasing that I use. And maybe this is not a good thing, but I definitely was like, "Oh, let me get that out of your way. Let me sneak by." I have these phrases, and I guess yeah, these are too subtle for some people because she was just like, "Oh, no, it's fine. I can deal with it."

Leah: She's totally the person who drove up to the front and didn't pull all the way through.

Nick: Yeah, I know. And it's just ...

Leah: "Oh, no worries. You can drive around."

Nick: But definitely the post-security baggage pickup area, I think this is also fraught.

Leah: Oh, it's very fraught.

Nick: It's a fraught place. Yeah.

Leah: Don't be leaving your bins so it backs up.

Nick: Yeah, I just—I don't know what's happening.

Leah: Grab and move! Grab and move!

Nick: Oh, and as long as we're on the subject, let me do a little also minor vent that also happened at the same airport. There is a trend where people take photos of their TSA bins. Are you familiar with this?

Leah: No.

Nick: I've seen this on the social media. Yeah, it would be like an overhead shot of a bin. And, like, all of your objects are sort of, like, nicely laid out, like, your shoes and, like, your fancy passport wallet and, like, your bag and, like, your toiletry bag. Like, there is a trend of people taking social media photos of their items as they go into a TSA bin. This is a thing that's happening in the world. And of course it is. Like, how has it not been a thing already? And so this is a thing that's happening. And if you want to do that, that's fine. Live your truth. But do not do it and hold everybody up. And that was also happening on the other side of this X-ray machine where somebody was, like, trying to artfully arrange their things and then take the photo and get the right photo. Because, you know, for social media, you never get it on the first photo. And it was sort of like, I actually took my bin and it went, like, around them and was like, "Oh, you're clearly not ready. That's fine. I will go ahead." But it's sort of like, what are we doing? What are we doing?

Leah: Well, it's too bad the next social media trend can't be us taking pictures of people who are taking pictures that take up everybody else's time.

Nick: Ugh. Etiquette Inception.

Leah: It really all boils down to every single time not thinking about other people.

Nick: Yeah, other people exist. How novel.

Leah: Hello?

Nick: [laughs] So Leah, what have you learned?

Leah: Oh, sitting on suitcases. It's gonna be my new favorite tradition.

Nick: Yeah, everybody should do it. And I learned that you don't wanna go on the record about whether or not you believe in ghosts and your true feelings about toasting warm bagels. You wanna be a little mysterious on that.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah, some things are private.

Nick: Fair enough. Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening, I'd send a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we need your etiquette crime reports. Remember those? So you're in line somewhere, you're on an airplane, you're at the office, you're at a wedding. Etiquette crimes are happening all around you, and we want to hear about it. So file your reports at EtiquetteCrime.com. And we will share them with everybody.

Leah: Oh, I gotta work on my siren again. I gotta work on my siren sound.

Nick: Yeah, you're getting a little rusty. So send those to us, and we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: I would like to send a cordial of kindness out to my ladies weightlifting group.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: Which I think I've told Nick about. I can't stop talking about. I really love it. I've been doing it six months? I don't know.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And it's just, I love it, and I love the support. And it's really meant a lot to me, and I super appreciate it.

Nick: All right, I'm gonna get you a weight belt for Christmas.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And for me, we got a lovely letter. And it's quote, "I have just returned from a professional lunch and awards ceremony event at my city's fanciest hotel, and I had to write you a thank-you note as soon as I got back. When I tell you there were so many utensils and plates on this table, I mean, there was hardly room for them. I took a deep breath and told myself to remember my training. I knew how to butter my roll one bite at a time. I knew to work inward with the utensils. I knew over which shoulder to expect a plate to be cleared. Even the quirky things I've never seen before like the desserts already nestled near the centerpiece of our table and waiting for us from the moment we sat down, I was able to navigate seamlessly. To my colleague next to me, who expressed how over the top this was, I whispered the name of your podcast so we can all be as ready next time. So thanks for all you do, and for making learning about etiquette so fun."

Leah: That's so lovely!

Nick: Isn't that nice? So I love that you had a nice time, and that we were able to make it a little easier for you.

Leah: Less anxiety.

Nick: I mean, isn't that the name of the game?

Leah: And that's really all you, Nick. So thank you so much.

Nick: I mean, you helped.

Leah: I helped by being like, should I put the fork in my hair?

Nick: No. And then our listener was like, "I won't do that. Thanks, Leah." Yeah. So thank you for this lovely letter.

Leah: So lovely!

Nick: We love getting letters from you all. Hint, hint. We have a P.O. box. Send us mail.

Leah: I love it. "Hint, Hint. We are needy."

Nick: [laughs] Hint, hint. I need validation, and I only get it when I open your mail, so please do that. But no, thank you. This really makes my day.

Leah: So sweet. I love it. I love it. And I love they had a great experience. How wonderful!

Nick: Totally.

Leah: Thank you.