Removing Shoes on Airplanes, Exiting Weddings Early, Welcoming Guests In, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody, it's Nick Layton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go. So all these questions come from our last live show. We had so many questions in the bucket that we couldn't get to that we will be using them for future episodes. And all of these are from our last live show.

Leah: Because we ran out of time! You guys gave us so many great questions, we ran out of time and we still had more left over.

Nick: Yeah, it just goes to show we have not solved all the world's etiquette problems yet, Leah. There is still work for us to do.

Leah: And we have a really fun audience.

Nick: And we have a really fun audience. So the first question is quote, "On an airplane, let's talk about shoes. Should you A) keep them on at all costs (but my feet will swell and I can't sleep)? B) take them off and stash them under the seat in front of you (but maybe they smell)? Or C) put them in a tote bag and stash them into an overhead bin (I admit this is my preference and maybe the least obnoxious)?"

Nick: So before we even begin, health and safety always trumps etiquette. So if you have a need to take off your shoes, if there's a reason why you gotta do it, like, this conversation is not for you. We're talking about purely voluntary shoe removal here.

Leah: And I don't think you should keep your shoes on at all costs if it makes you so uncomfortable. Just have socks on, and maybe wear a pair of shoes that—do you have, like, fresh smelling shoes?

Nick: Well, so in general ...

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: ... we want to talk about what is good etiquette on an airplane. And for me, it's about staying in your bubble. And so I guess the question is: can you achieve what you want to achieve while you're staying in your bubble?

Leah: And when you take your feet—your shoes off. You can't take your—when you take your shoes off, you know, we got clean socks on. Please don't be barefoot. That's wild.

Nick: Barefoot is definitely another level. I feel like if we don't need to be taking our socks off, like, let's not do that.

Leah: And I don't know what an elegant way to put this is, so I won't even try ...

Nick: Okay, Leah Bonnema, give it a shot. [laughs]

Leah: I will not even try. If you have feet that are very ...

Nick: Pungent?

Leah: Fragrant?

Nick: Odoriferous?

Leah: Odoriferous?

Nick: Bold? Provocative?

Leah: [laughs] If you have bold feet. If you have bold feet, maybe before we get on the flight, we, like, have shoes that are shoes that we are—like, more of like a slipper. Not like a—not like a bedroom slipper, but just sort of like a slip on-slip off that we use very rarely, so they haven't been, you know, lived in and fragranted in. And, you know, we just put on a fresh sock and our slip ons, and then that way if we worry about the way they smell, they're fresh. So we just slip our feet out and we got those little fresh lip ons right there.

Nick: Yeah. I think you know your feet and you know if they smell. And so, like, let's not inconvenience the people around you. I think that's, like, really the baseline.

Leah: My feet? Roses. Roses.

Nick: And I think when we walk to the bathroom, I do put my shoes back on. I don't want to be, like, in socks in an airplane bathroom.

Leah: I mean, if you want to walk to an airplane bathroom in socks.

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: I mean, it's not harming me, but I feel like your socks are gonna be taking one.

Nick: Oh, that's true. Yeah, that's true. That does fall into the doesn't affect my life, but for you, I would—actually, well it does affect society. I think it is a little corrosive on society in general. [laughs]

Leah: [laughs] I mean, it affects the person's house that you're gonna go stay at, and you're wearing those socks in.

Nick: But yeah, I mean, it's just like you think those airplane carpets get shampooed between each flight? I don't think so.

Leah: How about ever? Do you think they get shampooed ever?

Nick: Yeah, I think the idea of, like, oh, let me just run around this plane in bare feet? Okay. No, thank you.

Leah: I just wanna say that I recognize our letter writer is most comfortable with C, which is the idea of putting their shoes in the overhead...

Nick: Right.

Leah: ...which is why I suggested maybe bringing a separate pair of shoes, that way you still get that same vibe, but you don't have to stand up and put them on while you're trying to exit the plane. It just seems like an easier way to do that.

Nick: Right, yes, yeah, you're not telling people like they must bring a second set of shoes for the airport.

Leah: Yes, I would never suggest that. I think your shoes probably are lovely and you're just overly aware of other people because you're a lovely person. And this is just because you said that.

Nick: Got it, yeah, no, that makes sense. So our next question is quote, "How do you handle a platonic situation where one person wants to be friends more than the other? For example, when the initiator of the hangout wants the friendship more and wants it to happen closer to them, such as Queens versus Upper Manhattan?"

Leah: I wish we could have seen who in our audience wrote this. [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. And just for the record, it's not me, even though, you know, I do have a hard time with friends that live far away, such as on the East Side.

Leah: [laughs] On the East Side, that's like ...

Nick: Yeah, once you cross Fifth Avenue, it's sort of like, "Ugh. Oh, the hassle! Meet me in Madison Square Park."

Leah: Nick is making a trek!

Nick: Yeah. No, it's a real journey. Yeah, so how do we handle this?

Leah: Well, I think it's interesting that the friend who wants to hang out more is the friend who wants our letter-writer to travel.

Nick: Yeah, that's kind of a fun detail. It's sort of like, "I don't want this friendship, and you're making it inconvenient."

Leah: Yeah.

Nick:*[laughs]* So what do we do with that?

Leah: I think they could say, "Hey, you know, everybody's short on time. You know, we all just can't be running around all the time."

Nick: Sure.

Leah: You say, "You know, life is busy, as everybody is. If you're out in Queens, let's make a date. But I don't want to come into the city."

Nick: Boom. I think that's the way to handle it. And I don't think we need to have, like, a grand conversation about, like, our friendship and how uneven it is and how inconvenient you—I don't think we need to actually go down that road.

Leah: Because I'm trying to pull this out of New York, and then, like, putting it in terms of, if I was in ...

Nick: If I'm in Siena and you live in Florence, and I want to be friends with you more than you want to be friends with me, and I am always telling you, "Leah, just come to Florence," and you're like, "I don't want to."

Leah: And then you should come to me and have a coffee.

Nick: Right. So, like, "Oh, if I am in Siena, then I'll look you up, and then, you know, we'll have a coffee." Yeah.

Leah: That seems right.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I think this is universal.

Leah: And I think if a person—if you're initiating, realize that when you're asking a person to put in more work, to travel further ...

Nick: Yeah, that's a great point. Also, relationships should be sort of reciprocal. So, like, oh, I visit you in Queens, and you visit me in the Upper West Side, and we kind of take turns sharing this burden. But, you know, with this kind of relationship, which is like, I could take it or leave it, which is the vibe I'm getting, yeah, it's a little hard to reciprocate when you don't really want to reciprocate.

Leah: I just love that it's Queens versus Upper Manhattan, because outside of New York, you'd be like, isn't that sort of the same?

Nick: Oh, my gosh. It so is not. [laughs]

Leah: With Nick, you're like, "Are you more than five blocks away? I can't go."

Nick: I mean, for me to get to Queens, even Long Island City, like, the most convenient part of Queens for me to get to, it's still gonna be, like, 45 minutes door to door.

Leah: It is abs—also, I want everybody to know that every time Nick and I do something, I went from Queens to Manhattan.

Nick: And your point is?

Leah: And I never received a pat on the back. [laughs]

Nick: Did you—well, next time you're in New York, if you have time, I will give you a pat. How's that? Or do you want me to, like, visit you in Queens? Is that what you want?

Leah: I mean, we know you never offered, so we know you were like, "I will not!"

Nick: Well, yeah. I mean, I never said it, but I think that is implied.

Leah: Yeah, it was very implied. Yeah.

Nick: Yeah. Okay. Well, that's my deal. [laughs]

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Maybe I did write this letter, Leah. [laughs]

Leah: Did you write this letter?

Nick: So our next question is quote, "I was at a wedding yesterday, and as the DJ called last song, another friend and her husband remarked, 'Oh, the bride and groom are still here. We were told that you should never be present for the last song at your own wedding, because then your final memories are of people awkwardly shuffling out.' What do you think? Is it acceptable for newlyweds to slip out early at their own party?"

Leah: I haven't heard this before. I've never been at a wedding where my friends didn't say bye to everybody leaving. "Thanks for coming! Big hugs!" Sometimes we even go out somewhere afterwards, and then I have to be like, "I gotta go to bed early." But maybe this is out there. It's just not something I've come across.

Nick: Yeah. So I'm not super familiar with this specifically, so this is definitely, like, regional, I think. Or it's sort of like, a twist on, like, the actual tradition, like, the Emily Post 1922 version of this, which was like, you had the reception in, like, your home very often, and the idea is, like, you're having your party and all that. And then the bride goes upstairs to change into her traveling clothes, whatever that is, so wherever they're going off to. And then at the top of the stairs, she's joined by her groom. And then what happens is all the guests are, like, lined up along the hallway, and the bride and groom then basically make a mad dash down the stairs through the hallway as rice is being thrown at them like shrapnel. And then they get right into the car, and then they leave for their honeymoon. So that's kind of the vibe for Emily Post in 1922 about how a lot of these things happened. But today, nobody's going from the reception to, like, their honeymoon. Like, nobody's going to the airport that night. Like, I don't know who that person is.

Leah: I immediately thought, "Who's gonna clean up? Who's gonna lock up the house?"

Nick: But there is a thing called a 'formal exit,' which is a thing that people do in their weddings, which is a lot of people want to have the photo of them 'exiting,' quote-unquote, the reception with all their guests around them. Often, like, there's streamers, like sparklers in the photo. And the idea is like, oh, it's all your guests, like, sending you off. And we get a great photo of that. And a lot of people do a fake version of this early in the reception when most of the guests are there. So they, like, pretend to leave for the photos and then the actual party happens. And also, this actually allows you to have your photographer not have to stay to the bitter end so you don't have to pay them for the entire party. So it's actually a good strategy on some level, but a lot of people do that, and so, like, have at it if you want.

Leah: I also don't think that your final memories are of people awkwardly shuffling out. I think it's more your friends are saying bye to you and a great night and wishing you well. And that's the memory.

Nick: Yeah. And honestly, a lot of parties, like, it actually gets more intimate and kind of nice at the very end when there's only a few guests, and you actually can talk to people and people are a little more relaxed. And there's something about that sort of twilight of a party that I really like.

Leah: And the real die-hards are still out on the dance floor. So I will dance through a whole wedding. I will dance to every song. I can't get enough of dancing!

Nick: And a lot of weddings then do have, like, this second chapter, which is like the midnight buffet. So then there's an after party that's also planned. It's very common for there to be like, "Oh, there's pancakes at midnight now. Like, oh, the menu has now changed, and now we're gonna be here for another four hours." And for some guests, you're like, "I cannot stay 'til the end. I cannot stay for this entire afterparty. I'm going home." So for that, then yeah, you are gonna see your guests leave, and that's fine.

Leah: Or I've been to a lot of weddings where they go to a second location afterwards, and then you're like, "I can't make it."

Nick: Oh, kidnapping and weddings? Never go to a second location.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] But I think the idea that bride and groom can't stay to the end, I don't think that's an etiquette rule.

Leah: I don't think so either. And I personally would want to stay 'til the end because I would want to be there to say bye to all my friends and thank you.

Nick: Yeah. So I think that's fine. So do that. But if the tradition in your area is to leave early, well then yeah, etiquette is local. So then do whatever is etiquette in your area.

Leah: Yeah. Or if that's what you really wanted was to have that old school idea of, like, we're running off ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And everybody's wishing us well, then do that. Whatever makes you happy on your wedding day.

Nick: So at the end of the day, stay to the end, don't stay to the end. What you wanna make sure is that your guests have a nice time. So whatever you choose, just make sure you keep that in mind.

Leah: Yes. I wouldn't, like, slip out.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: And not say goodbye to anybody. I would not do that.

Nick: You'd just, like, through the back door and don't tell anybody?

Leah: I mean, I wouldn't, like, "Peace out" through the kitchen.

Nick: "Where is Chad and Lisa? Are they here?"

Leah: [laughs] "Where did they go?" I would not do that.

Nick: Yeah. No, that would be bonkers. I mean, does that happen?

Leah: I don't know. You're like, "I flew in. Where did you go?" [laughs]

Nick: Audience, have you been at a wedding where the newlyweds just left the party and didn't tell anybody? Let me know. Let me know, like, what that was.

Leah: And never came back. They have to have never come back.

Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it has to be like, "Oh, we have just left and we didn't tell anybody." If it was before the cake cutting, I definitely wanna hear about that. That would be wild.

Leah: Wild!

Nick: That'd be wild. So our next question is quote, "In the past few years, I've noticed that salespeople and baristas often greet customers with 'Welcome in.' I don't remember this being common until recently. To me, 'welcome' implies that someone has just arrived and it's unnecessary to add the word 'in.' What do you think? Is this a faux pas or something I should just get over?"

Leah: I have a very strong feeling on this.

Nick: Okay, what's your very strong feeling?

Leah: But I would like to run it. I'm going to play the barista. You play...

Nick: Okay, I'm "Nick the Customer".

Leah: You're "Nick the Customer".

Nick: Doo doo doo doo doo doo. I'm walking into the store.

Leah: "Welcome In!"

Nick: "Hello." Was that our roll play?

Leah: No, you're supposed to say, "Oh..." What would you say? What would you say to be like, "Welcome in is...you don't need the 'in'"?

Nick: I mean, I wouldn't necessarily respond to that greeting in any particular way. It's sort of like an Irasshaimase (いらっしゃいませ). You don't have to respond. You can just acknowledge their existence.

Leah: Right. But our letter writer is saying, "can I tell them that they don't need the 'in'?"

Nick: Our letter writer is not saying that we need to correct their expression to their face. I think our letter writer wants to know, "should I just be bothered?" Under no circumstances are we actually saying something back to them about like, 'oh, please do not say this to me."

Leah: Oh, okay. Good. I wanted to make sure because I wanted to role role play that and we would show how that would not go well.

Nick: Yeah. Oh no no no no. If somebody says welcome in and you're bothered by it, we do not now say to that person, "Excuse me, the 'in' is unnecessary a nd please don't say that to me." No, that that is that is not the role play that's about to happen.

Leah: Okay. Good. I just wanted to make sure because I was like, "This is not going to go well. We're not doing that."

Nick: But I will say, I do get why you're bothered because there is something that feels very corporate jargony about it. It feels like it's some corporate hospitality handbook phrase that the corporation makes servers say, like, "Oh, you must say 'welcome in,' you must list the specials, you must try to upsell the guacamole. It feels like part of that because there's no real reason to say it. And also, you would never say this outside of a commercial transactional sort of situation. If I have you over to my house for a party, I'm not going to be like, "Welcome in." I don't think I would say that. I think you only say "Welcome In" to my store in the mall. "Welcome in to this chain restaurant." Right?

Leah: I also think we don't need to be bothered by it. Like, just assume that person has to say that.

Nick: They don't realize they're saying it or it's not really a problem. I mean, is this the hill you want to die on? Of all the things that are happening out there, of all the things is this it? Is this the thing for you? I don't know.

Leah: "Thank you."

Nick: That's it does feel friendly. It kind of feels a little southern.

Leah: It feels friendly. I think we can acknowledge somebody when they say welcome in. We say "thanks."

Nick: Yeah. Oh, we don't ignore them totally.

Leah: Well, that's what i saw saying.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I just don't feel the need to necessarily like respond to that phrase like, "Thank you for your welcome." Like, I don't feel I have to say that, but I can make eye contact with them and say 'thanks."

Leah: "Thanks, Hi."

Nick: Sure, yes. Any of these things are fine. But yes, I think it is a newer thing. I don't know if 30 years ago we were saying "Welcome in." I think it is a phrase that is coming and it's sort of making its way through different industries and different cities. And now that we've said it on this show, I think you will now be more aware of it in the wild. And then maybe you're going to notice everybody saying it.

Leah: Let me say this, I would way rather a "welcome in" than people not acknowledging me at all.

Nick: Oh yes, that's true. Absolutely. Yeah. There's nothing worse than like you walk into a store or cafe or restaurant and then they just don't acknowledge you at all.

Leah: I feel like these are just people trying to do their job and, you know, recognize that you walked in as opposed to ignoring you. And we could just leave it at that.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, actually, the more I think about it, "welcome in" does feel kind of nice. You're like "welcome in." It feels cozy. "Out" is bad, scary, cold, damp, wet. "In" is good.

Leah: What they're saying is "welcome into the family. Welcome into the family of our coffee shop. Welcome into love. Welcome into air conditioning or welcoming into a heated room."

Nick: Leah's going to start a cult.

Leah: You know, I think it's meant with love. And we can take it that way.

Nick: Yeah, I feel like it should be accepted in the way it was intended. That would be your best bet, yes. But if you'd like to be bothered by something, who am I to tell you not to be bothered by something? So have at it.

So our next question is quote, "I have a friend who's a real downer at parties. She unloads a lot of unpleasant information and brings up difficult political conversations. How can I politely ask her to move on from a topic? I try to change the conversation, but it doesn't always work. Is there something I can say? The last time I tried, I was sort of attacked."

Leah: This is a hard one.

Nick: This is tricky because you have said up top that this is a friend. Because if this is an acquaintance, we could do more of a, "Oh, okay. Well, excuse me for a second. I'm gonna refresh my drink," and then just avoid this person for the entire party. Like, that would be your strategy if this is an acquaintance. If it's a friend, though, yeah, a little more engagement is required.

Leah: I mean, it seems like you tried to talk about this with them, and then they quote, "sort of attacked you."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: You're still bothered by it. So I think besides not going to any parties where they're at, the only other option is—not at a party, at some other time—say to them, "Hey," then bring up what happened where you tried to talk about it, and then say, "I just don't like talking about upsetting things at parties or sad things at parties. If there's something you need to talk to me about, I would love it to be in private because at parties it makes me uncomfortable."

Nick: Yeah. Just that polite-yet-direct, non-judgmental, sort of value-neutral. Make it about how it makes you feel, and just your request for how things could be different in the future.

Leah: Because as a friend, you want to—you know, if they're going through something, you want to be able to listen, and then but also for your—you're allowed to be uncomfortable, and to not want to talk about it in public.

Nick: Yeah. Both of these things can be true.

Leah: And I think if they can't respect that you don't want to talk about personal things at parties and they get mad at you for that, that's really on them.

Nick: And that's gonna feel like a hard conversation and one you might not be looking forward to having, but I think doing it will actually be in your best interest and will make you feel much better once it happens.

Leah: And you're also not saying you don't want to hear about what they want to talk about. You just don't want to hear about it at a party.

Nick: Yeah. I think, Leah, you are onto something with that. So I think, letter-writer, try this, report back. Let us know how we did.

Leah: Yeah. Also, like, as a person who—I don't do well in large social events, I do better one on one. If I'm at a party and you're, like, trying to have an intense conversation, it's just gonna throw my anxiety off.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, that's not fun.

Leah: So ideally, this person will understand that other people don't necessarily socialize in the same way, and they can find a middle ground.

Nick: Yeah, fair enough. So our next thing is a PSA. Leah, do you not have a sound effect for this?

Leah: Oh, do you want me to have a sound for PSA?

Nick: Well, I mean, every time—we kind of have a call and response thing that happens.

Leah: Okay. All right.

Nick: You know?

Leah: All right, let me work one out.

Nick: Although we did not discuss it. That's true. So I don't know what sound is PSA, unless you can make the sound of the star shooting through the sky.

Leah: I have an idea.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Let's do it again.

Nick: All right. So our next thing is a PSA.

Leah: "Pssa!"

Nick: What? No. No.

Leah: [laughs] That's PSA sounded out phonetically. "Pssa!"

Nick: All right.

Leah: All right. Well, next one, I'll try another one. And you can vote.

Nick: But I'm not voting. I'm vetoing. But it's quote, "If you sit front row in an opera or musical, you are most likely in the conductor's monitor, and the actors backstage will watch a live feed of you sleeping, on your phone or picking your nose. Beware!"

Leah: This is a great PSA!

Nick: This is a great PSA. Because I love sort of, like, insider-y, industry specific PSAs. Things that, like, as a civilian you might not actually know about. Like, this actually would not occur to me. I'm not sleeping, on my phone or picking my nose at a theater, so I'm in the clear. But it would not occur to me, like, oh, if I'm front row, I'm on camera all the whole time.

Leah: And everybody is—all the people on stage are paying attention. They see you in the front row. You are very clear.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, there's definitely that.

Leah: And then we go backstage and talk about you.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: If you're sleeping or picking your nose or on your phone.

Nick: And everybody backstage knows about it because they can then see you on the camera. So, like, we all see it, I guess. Yeah. No, it's amazing. So I love this. So you out there, if you work for an industry and you have, like, an industry-specific PSA that, like, people outside of your industry wouldn't know about, but should. Oh, let us know!

Leah: Please let us know! I would love to know things because I'm sure I'm missing so much.

Nick: Oh, I would love to know things because I don't wanna be wrong. Yeah.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Of course! And if you have questions for us, a vent or repent, we'll take it all. So please send it to us. Send it to us through our website WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!