Remembering Wedding Anniversaries, Throwing Yourself Parties, Examining Other People's Zippers, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go! Our first question is quote, "I work in an office, and occasionally we get treated to in-office lunch parties by our superiors. Usually, any leftover food is packaged up and saved for any late-arriving employees who miss the party, or eaten by everybody over the next day or two. There is one superior—let's call him Chad—who when he treats us to lunch, he wraps up the food immediately afterwards and takes it home. I find this odd. And I get it. He paid for it, and it could be his family's dinner. But something about this seems tacky. Am I the only one who is raised by wolves thinking it's wrong? I don't think it's an extreme etiquette crime, but I'm curious your thoughts."

Leah: I also think for our audience, the word "superiors" is in quotes.

Nick: Yes. I mean, I guess this is certainly somebody above them at the office.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I mean, a boss, I guess we could say.

Leah: I mean, yeah, it seems tacky.

Nick: Yeah. Something seems a little off about this, right? Yeah, something is a little off. Yeah. And I guess I was thinking, like, why is it off? Because, yeah, it's true, like, technically, I guess you could take the leftovers, but I guess the point of me buying you lunch is for me to be like, "I'm the cool boss. Look at me, I'm buying everybody lunch." And then when I just take all the leftovers, it almost makes it seem insincere, right? Because, like, I'm taking that generosity back or, like, I'm taking that gesture back. I'm retracting it.

Leah: Yeah, it is sort of like, "This is for you!" And then it's like, "Oh, it's only for you if you could get it in your mouth in this half an hour. Because then it's back to me again."

Nick: [laughs] Right? Yeah. So it's a little miserly. Yeah, it's a little miserly. So is there anything we can do about it, though? I mean, we can't say anything to Chad, like, "Oh, Chad, do you want to leave the brownies for Becky, who's gonna be back tomorrow?"

Leah: I mean, I guess we could.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: But do we want to?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think we just have to know that this is Chad's deal.

Leah: I mean, we could be like, "I was just gonna put some aside for Becky. She didn't make it to lunch because she's, you know, working on blankety, blank, blank."

Nick: Oh, should we bring Tupperware? Oh, maybe we bring containers, and we try to get to the leftovers before Chad can. And he's like, "What are you doing?" And I'm like, "Oh, I'm just saving some for the people who are on that off site right now so that they have something. Because you're gonna take it all for your own personal use."

Leah: I imagine that we're all at, like, a large table. We can say when they're wrapping it up, be like, "Hey, what do you think if we put some aside for that team that's working on this off site?"

Nick: Yeah. Okay, I feel like if somebody is coming back to the office that day and wasn't there, that could work. But I mean, it's also like, oh, there's some food, and we could also have it tomorrow. Put it in the office fridge for the people who are also here today.

Leah: Yeah. I mean, that would be the goal, but I don't know how we would say that. But I think we could just agree with our letter-writer. Yes, it's tacky, but I don't know how we would be like, "Hey, stop being tacky." We can't really say that.

Nick: Yes. [laughs] Yeah. I mean, some etiquette problems can't be solved, only acknowledged. So we just have to acknowledge that this is tacky and we can't do anything about it. But we could just note it, and you're welcome to tell us about it.

Leah: And we can sit in solidarity at the tackiness.

Nick: Yes, we see you. We're with you. We're on your side.

Leah: Nick is doing a fist in the air, so you know it's real.

Nick: Yes. I feel like Sally Field standing on a table.

Leah: That's the vibe I was getting!

Nick: Amazing! So our next question is quote, "I recently had a situation arise with a very close friend that has left me confused about one specific social expectation. This friend expressed disappointment that I did not congratulate them on their 15th wedding anniversary. For context, we are close now, and we were close then—I was in the wedding. And so I apologized and mentioned that it's not my typical way of showing support, meaning remembering specific dates in order to text message. But because it's important to them, I will try to do better in the future. And I've marked it in my calendar, and I will genuinely try to remember to say something next year. Admittingly, I'm a little salty because some comments made around this made it feel like a tit-for-tat situation, which is not how I like to navigate friendships. So it does make me question: I do this for no other friends. Am I making a giant faux pas? Is someone else's anniversary something we're socially expected to remember and comment on?"

Leah: I wish we'd gotten the tit-for-tat comments.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, there's more there.

Leah: But I imagine it. They were like, "I remember when you did blank."

Nick: It was definitely that. It's like, "I remembered your anniversary."

Leah: And I dislike it when people do that.

Nick: Yeah. So I mean, you are not obligated to remember the wedding anniversary date of a friend.

Leah: A 15-year wedding anniversary?

Nick: Right?

Leah: And I feel like we could say to people—because I really don't like it when people tit for tat. We could say, "Hey, you could bring this up to me without mentioning all the things you do, because I do do other things."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, certainly there could be that conversation. Yeah. To try to, you know, end that tit-for-tat vibe.

Leah: Which wasn't in the letter at all, but I just did want to bring that up because I have actually had that conversation with somebody.

Nick: Yeah. And sometimes that is necessary. Yeah. But I mean for this, yeah, I feel like this is not a thing that society does. Yeah. I mean, because also the wedding anniversary, even though I was at the wedding, so technically I do know that date, this is a private thing for, you know, you two. You know, this is sort of your anniversary. This is your event. So yeah, it's not normal for, like, people around you to weigh in. I think it's nice if your kids weigh in. I think it's nice when kids sort of remember their parents' wedding anniversary. But yeah, friends? Yeah, friends, I don't think this is required.

Leah: I want to say also our letter-writer's so nice that they were like, "Hey, this is not something I do, but I see that it's important to you, so I'll put it in my calendar."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: But I—if I had a friend text me, I go, "What are you up to today?" And they go, "Oh, it's our 15th wedding anniversary. We were doing this." Then I would say, "Happy anniversary!"

Nick: "Oh my goodness!" Right.

Leah: But the idea that I would remember your 15-year anniversary, I don't even know—sometimes I get my own dates mixed up.

Nick: Yes. I mean, very often people who are in that marriage don't remember the anniversary date. Right. So I think it's very nice that you're making an effort for next year. You're a very good friend. But no, this is not something that you have to do for everybody.

Leah: Yeah. I know my parents, and that's really the only wedding anniversary I know.

Nick: Yeah. And do you reach out and just be like, "Hey, happy anniversary?"

Leah: Yeah. I sent a text.

Nick: And I think if it's a big anniversary—25, 50—I mean, you're probably gonna have a party at that point.

Leah: But I also feel like my friends, when they're celebrating their anniversary, they post it online, and then I'm reminded by it, and then I text or I DM or I post a comment. "Happy anniversary!" But the idea that I would, on my own, remember and just reach out to you seems, I would say, slightly unhinged.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. No, unhinged. I guess it's a little unhinged.

Leah: Just slightly. Just a little bit.

Nick: Ever so slight. A little ajar.

Leah: A little ajar, a little myopic.

Nick: Clearly, the wedding anniversary is very important to this friend.

Leah: And now we know. And now it's in our calendar, and you're a good friend.

Nick: Now we know.

Leah: And I would just next time they tit for tat, that's what I would bring up. "Stop tit for tatting me."

Nick: Yeah. And I'm sure this is coming up in other areas of your relationship, so there'll be other opportunities to have that conversation, I'm sure.

Leah: Yes. What a dream. What a gift.

Nick: Oh, lucky you. So our next question is quote, "What's the etiquette around throwing yourself a housewarming party? I just want to invite people over to see our new home and to celebrate with us. I'm really not trying to make it into a gift grab, although I know some people will bring gifts. What's the right way to have this party without seeming greedy?"

Leah: For sure, have a housewarming celebration of your new home. Congratulations!

Nick: Very exciting.

Leah: I think we just say, "Hey, I just want to have my nearest and dearest over to celebrate this home. Please don't feel like you need to bring presents. I just want to hang out and show you our new house."

Nick: Yes. Or just have a party and don't call it housewarming. "Hey, having some people over on Friday. Hope you can come." Boom!

Leah: But I want to show you my new house.

Nick: Well, you're going to be in the house, so you're gonna see it.

Leah: But I want to celebrate that I have a new house.

Nick: [laughs] Well, you're in the house. We're hanging out in the house. It's a party.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: I mean, what more do you want?

Leah: I see what you're saying. I like what you're saying. It seems like a viable option. I do think people like to have a reason for a party. "I'm having this party because it's October. I'm having this party because it's January. I'm having this party as a spring awakening. I'm having this party because it's a new home."

Nick: [laughs] Spring awakening. Oh, wow! Yes. Actually, you bring up a very interesting point. I think a lot of people feel the need to have an occasion for a party, and I think it is a lost art to just entertain for the sake of entertaining. I just want to have people over. There's no occasion other than I enjoy your company. And I feel like because we've lost that, because we feel like we can't just do that, we actually have invented all this bizarre etiquette and etiquette problems, and all this could be solved if we just, like, had people over, entertained, enjoyed each other's company, socialized. And so, like, "Come over on Friday. Love to see you. Seven to nine. Drop by, and then you'll be in my house. And then it's like, oh, it's new."

Leah: I hear you.

Nick: I know, but do you?

Leah: No, I do. That's why I heard you. And then I left space.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: I just love a theme, Nick.

Nick: Okay. Well, let's have a theme party. "Come over on Friday for an under the sea-themed party."

Leah: That makes me feel better.

Nick: Yeah, it's all gonna be sushi and mermaids and treasure chests, so come on down.

Leah: That seems fun!

Nick: Okay, so that's a theme. And it doesn't have to be a housewarming.

Leah: But if you want to have a housewarming, and that's what you want to do ...

Nick: If the theme of this party is housewarming.

Leah: The theme of this is housewarming. I would just say, "Please, no gifts. I just want to celebrate my new home with my closest friends."

Nick: Yeah, I guess you could do that. I mean, I don't love that. I don't love that. I think it would just be easier to, like, not brand this as a housewarming party specifically, because then that comes with all this baggage.

Leah: I just think people get anxious. Like, they want to invite people over to show them their new house, but they don't want people to feel like they have to do anything or be anything.

Nick: Right. And so just come over.

Leah: Okay. Just come over.

Nick: But, you know, have a housewarming then. And don't talk about gifts, and if people want to bring you things, then, like, that's what they can do, and that's on them. And if they want to do something to warm up your house, well, then that's very nice. And hopefully people are modest with their gifts, and don't do anything extravagant or crazy. And, you know, maybe that's lovely.

Leah: So that would be the middle ground to say, "Come over to christen our new home."

Nick: Yeah. If you have to admit that this is because there's a new home involved.

Leah: Well, it's not because admitting. I think sometimes you want to celebrate it. This is a big deal.

Nick: Well, but I'm asking you over anyway. Like, would you not come to my house just to hang out on Friday unless you knew it was a celebration? Like, I don't want to come to your house if we're not celebrating anything. Like, is any guest gonna say that?

Leah: No, but I feel like it's not for my guests. It's for me to get to say this is a big deal in my life.

Nick: Well, you can say that when people get there. Or you can make that clear. I mean, I guess do you feel like you're gonna trick people, that they're gonna walk in your house and be like, "I didn't realize this was a housewarming."

Leah: Well, it's also—it's just like, I'm in a new house. I'm giving you a new address.

Nick: That's true. I mean, people will figure it out. Yeah.

Leah: So then I might as well just be like, "This is a new place I want you guys to see."

Nick: Okay. Well, then have housewarming and don't talk about gifts. And if people wanna bring stuff, then fine.

Leah: But I think have a party, whether you want to just not say what the party is for ...

Nick: Yes. Don't not have a party.

Leah: Don't not have a party. Have a party.

Nick: Right. No, party is the baseline. We're having a party. It's just whether or not you're gonna be getting kitchen towels or not.

Leah: Well, we have three ways to handle this now. We have—we're just having a party, you're not saying why. You're having a party that's a random theme that's low work for people. And then you're having a housewarming party where we say no gifts, which Nick doesn't like, and you say "Housewarming party," and then you just leave it at that.

Nick: So here are your options. Pick one, let us know how it goes.

Leah: But they're—the one option that's off the table is not having a party. So I feel like at least we gave them that.

Nick: Yeah, exactly. Congrats.

Leah: It's very exciting!

Nick: Oh, I love it! I mean, I kind of want to move just so I can have a party. I mean, I've been in this place for so long. Like, ugh!

Leah: I want a backyard. That's my new thing.

Nick: That's your new thing? Okay.

Leah: "Come to the house. We have a backyard."

Nick: You just want to shove more animals in there.

Leah: You know that's true.

Nick: [laughs] So our next question is quote, "My fiancé and I have been together for five years, and it has recently come to my attention—read my parents made a comment about it—that his table manners leave a bit to be desired. He frequently spills food as a result of eating with his plate too far away, often chews with his mouth slightly open, and talks with food in his mouth, in addition to other more minor mistakes. In the comfort of her own home, I don't typically mind more relaxed table manners from him, but as he is about to enter the job search for a sophisticated legal career, one that will involve lots of dinners with potential employers who will be watching for this, I want to bring these things to his attention without hurting his feelings. Is there a way that I can gently let a person know that their table manners need some improvement? Also, should I even be the one to tell him these things, or should I let him continue as he is?"

Leah: I struggled with this question.

Nick: This is tough! Oh, this is so tough because ugh, how do you approach this?

Leah: I don't think there's a way that you could tell somebody this and not have it hurt their feelings.

Nick: Yes. I mean, you have to be kind and gentle here, and that's really tricky.

Leah: Even if you're—even if they don't tell you you've hurt their feelings, you're basically saying, "Look, the way that you do this is not appropriate, and you kind of have to get it together." Which is hurtful.

Nick: So I guess the first question is: Do we think this person is aware that their table manners might need some improvement? Do they care? Do they know they're not great and don't want to change? Like, I guess, what's their take on it? What do we think they think?

Leah: My guess is they're not thinking about it.

Nick: Yes. I feel like they may not realize what's happening. So I guess that's good because it gives us an opportunity to be like, "Hey, you don't realize this is what's happening. Let me offer some suggestions," I guess.

Leah: I'm sort of divided down the middle. As a fiancé, even as a close friend, even as a—let me say it out loud, and then we'll see. I feel uncomfortable telling somebody they need to change something about themselves.

Nick: Yes. Yeah. No, I totally get that. I guess the wrinkle here is this might hold this person back from getting a job. That's the concern of our letter-writer, that "I'm fine with it at home. I don't really mind what my parents are saying, but this person is about to apply for jobs, and that's gonna involve dinners with potential employers. And that's what I'm worried about."

Leah: Let me walk this out.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Because we love our partner. We want the best for them.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: We think that this will help them. I'm gonna walk it out. I'm gonna say it out loud, and then I may completely go back on it.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: So we say, "Hey, babe. I love you exactly the way you are. This has nothing to do with in-the-house, but I know you're gonna, like, be going on big dinners because you're getting new law jobs. And I think, like, dinner etiquette is a specific type of business meeting. And I listened to this really fun podcast, and we've been doing dinner etiquette. And I thought we could go out to, like, a fun dinner and practice, like, eating dinner etiquette. Or we could go to a class together because I know you're gonna be doing all these big meetings."

Nick: Yeah. I feel like this is the—this is the direction. Yeah. Make it a team effort.

Leah: And then what if they say "No, that's okay."

Nick: Then I think then we drop it. Yeah. Because we can't make people do something. Like, we can't make him. Like, he's an adult and, you know, he just won't get the job then if this is an employer that really cares, and the table manners at that business interview didn't go well, you know, that dinner, then he just won't get the job. And then, you know, that'll ask and answered. And then maybe he'll care. But until that point, yeah. But I feel like what you suggest is kind of gentle.

Leah: And I also—when you do things together, it doesn't feel like, "You have to. You're a mess."

Nick: Yeah. But it is true that, like, when we're applying for jobs, yeah we do practice, like, how to answer interview questions. We do think about, like, oh, what are we gonna wear? And so yeah, if there's gonna be dining with a potential employer, we should absolutely think about what it would take to nail that aspect of the job interview. And etiquette is also about just feeling comfortable, you know? We want to actually get to the place where we don't worry about our table manners. We don't worry about are we doing the right thing because it's sort of automatic. And that takes practice. That just takes practice, because we don't want to be consciously thinking about, like, "Am I holding the fork the right way? Is that my water glass?" You know, like, we don't want to live like that. And so you just have to get in the reps. And so I think your idea of, like, a practice dinner, I think, is a good one.

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I also think that if you could sign you guys up for a class, the pair of you, then you're not the person correcting them.

Nick: Yes. I think that could also be useful. And, you know, you might learn something, too. There's always things to learn.

Leah: And it's fun to have a—I mean, is it fun? You know, I do like what Nick said about you want to do your best in every aspect to help you get the job.

Nick: And my hope is that I think when you present it that way, that this is not a comment on your table manners. It's just a comment on, like, how can we nail this job? And I think it's also important to note that there are different types of table manners. So, like, there is the very formal, fussy law-dinner-with-the-boss table manners, which is different than the, you know, casual-dinner-with-friends table manners. And both of them are correct and polite, they're just slightly different for the different contexts. So yeah, in your house, the table manners are fine. And I think the thing to sort of convey to your fiancé is that, like, table manners are different in different contexts. You're gonna be in a new context, and so let's talk about what the manners are in that context. And so that could be a way to frame it.

Leah: I guess I'm thinking if my fiancé knew that I had a habit that was getting directly in the way of something that I wanted ...

Nick: Yeah. You would want him to say something.

Leah: Would I?

Nick: Oh, I don't know. Okay. Would you not?

Leah: That's—that's what I'm—that's what I'm thinking. I think if I genuinely felt like they didn't care and they loved me and they didn't think it was weird, but they were like, "This is a thing that people are doing out there that you're not doing, and this may help you," but I wouldn't want to feel like they thought that what I was doing was ...

Nick: Yes. I think you still want that core of support and love.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And that's that line you're gonna have to ...

Nick: But I feel like it's, you know, getting this job is good for both of you. So we both have our goals aligned here. So it's just, you know, what is it gonna take to get to the finish line? And you need every advantage you can get. And final thought on this. Etiquette gives you an advantage. Etiquette helps you get ahead. You know, given the choice between two people and who has the better etiquette, the better etiquette usually wins.

Leah: I mean, you could just sign you both up for an etiquette class and not say anything and be like, "I know you're looking for new jobs. I listen to this podcast. I think it's a really fun idea. Let's go together."

Nick: Yeah. If you want to ambush them with etiquette classes.

Leah: No, but I mean, you're telling them that's what it is, as opposed to being like, "You need dinner etiquette." You know what I mean? It's just a general ...

Nick: Yeah. Okay. And then we do it together, so it's a group activity.

Leah: We're hanging out.

Nick: And fun date night.

Leah: And we're getting food. We're gonna be fed.

Nick: Yeah. Okay. So I think actually this is the way to do it.

Leah: If we decide to do it, this is the way to do it.

Nick: Okay. So our next question is quote, "What's a lady to do when she sees that a man's zipper is down? I've been in this situation several times, and I just don't know if I should say something or not. So much depends on the person and the situation. What would you do?"

Leah: Quick, back to the last question, which I know is Nick's favorite things that I do. I think that we employ Nick's trademark line in this. It's so important because we love this person and people want to be loved for who they are.

Nick: Yeah. What line do I have that is vaguely related to what you're about to say?

Leah: This is value neutral. You are not making a judgment on the way they eat. You just want the best. You want them to have the most opportunities possible, and this is not a world where they've run in before. And that's what that is. There is no judgment on it.

Nick: Right? Yeah, that has to be the approach. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I think if you can do that, and you should be able to do that, then I think it should be okay.

Leah: I got the vibe from the letter that they love them the way they are.

Nick: Yeah. And yeah, they may have their feelings hurt a little bit, and I guess that's sort of gonna be understandable, but hopefully then they'll realize, like, oh, the big picture here, forest for the trees. That little bit of hurt is worth it because in the end, actually, it's gonna be in my best interest. It's a tough one, though.

Leah: It is a real tough one.

Nick: Right?

Leah: It's a real tough one.

Nick: So letter-writer, let us know what you end up doing and then how does it go? I'd be very curious if there's some follow up here. So please stay in touch with us on this.

Leah: Because it's so interesting, because if it was like a baking bread class where you were like, "I don't know how to make bread," and they've always—they need to make bread for this thing. You would just make the—you would just get them a baking bread class, because there is no somebody feeling—you don't want somebody to feel bad about it. They just don't know how to make bread. And in many ways it's that way. They just don't know how to do this kind of dining, but there's feelings associated with it.

Nick: Yes, they just don't know how to do this type of dining. Right.

Leah: So we're taking a class. Let's take a class.

Nick: Take a class. Okay. So we have some zippers. What do we do about it? You're a lady.

Leah: I am a lady.

Nick: Mm-hmm. It's often—often how you're described.

Leah: I've—I've struggled with this. There was a zipper down the other day, and I spent so much time thinking—because I feel like the times that I've pointed out there was a zipper down ...

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: ... the person didn't ...

Nick: Address it immediately?

Leah: No, it was addressed immediately. But then I felt like I was the bad person, or I was like ...

Nick: Oh, like somehow you caused this?

Leah: Yeah. Like, they were like, "Here's Leah, talking about my zipper." You know what I mean? So then you're like—what is the phrase, "Your barn door is open?"

Nick: I mean, that's one that is used. Sure. Yes. I mean, I feel like that if the idea is to be discreet and quick about it, I think barn doors open is not—I don't know if that's the direction we're going in.

Leah: I do remember one time, it was a close male friend, I just stepped into him and I was like, "Hey, your zipper's down." Like, in a voice where he could hear me but nobody else could.

Nick: Yeah. I think most men understand "XYZ."

Leah: If you said "XYZ?"

Nick: Yeah. You could say that to a man. Yeah, I think most men understand what that is.

Leah: XYZ?

Nick: XYZ. Yeah.

Leah: Are you making this up right now?

Nick: No, no, no. Examine your zipper. Yeah.

Leah: Stop! Is this real?

Nick: No, that's a thing. It's a real thing. Yeah.

Leah: Okay, I'm gonna say that to somebody.

Nick: Yeah. See how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, men, men of the world, we have our own, like, secret thing happening over here.

Leah: You have your own language that we don't know about?

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. XYZ. Yeah. I mean, if you said that to me, I would know what you meant. I feel like a lot of people would. Listeners let me know. Is this something you're familiar with? Have you heard this? Would you know what to do if somebody whispered "XYZ" in your ear?

Leah: I—you know, I tell guys because a lot of times it's at comedy shows and they're about to go on stage. And I feel like a second of uncomfortability is way better than them getting on stage.

Nick: Oh, a hundred percent. If somebody's about to walk on stage in front of a room full of people with their fly down, you must say something.

Leah: You must. And I have.

Nick: Suffer the consequences. Yes.

Leah: But, like, there was an older gentleman recently, and I feel like he just—he seemed sort of like life had been disheveled that day. And I didn't want to just walk up to him and be like, "Hey, Bubs, you missed your pants."

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I didn't even know him.

Nick: Yeah. So when it's an acquaintance, that does make it slightly trickier, but I think it's something we do want to address. Like, I don't want to go through my day with my fly down. And I would like a stranger to let me know this. I think I would—I would want this. I don't want to go—like, chances are I'm not gonna catch it right away. And so, like, how many hours am I gonna go where this is happening? Like, at what point is it gonna catch my eye?

Leah: But then I think, what if he had it down on purpose?

Nick: Well, if I had it down on purpose, then that's on me.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Then that's—that's my issue. Right. Because oh, if you were like, "Oh, your fly's down," and you're like, "I know."

Leah: I know. And then I'm just like, "Uh ..."

Nick: Then we walk away. Yeah, we just walk away at that point. Yeah, we do not engage with that person.

Leah: Okay, so this is coming from a man. So now I feel like now I know even if I do not know this person at all and we're just, like, at Target together, I'm gonna walk over and say "XYZ."

Nick: Well, it's the—no. So there has to be some rules. So it has to be very fast, very discreet, and you have to be very close. I do not need you walking from across the room to come up to me and then, like, engage in conversation. So if you're a total stranger, I would need it very passing, like, "Hey, your fly's down." It would have to be very quick like that.

Leah: Yes, but you want it. You want it.

Nick: I think I do. Yeah, I think I do. Ideally, it's from a friend or somebody I know who's with me, but if I'm alone and my fly is totally down? Yeah, I think I would want that heads up.

Leah: I'm telling friends always, and then I'm telling people that I don't—might not know, but they're going on comedy shows or they're going to go speak in front of something always. So the only place where it feels weird is, like, you're at Target. I don't know you.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I think Target, I feel like I would want to know. Subway, public transportation, I don't want to be engaged no matter what. So I think I do—I would kind of draw the line maybe on the subway.

Leah: So the line is on the subway. If your pants are unzipped on the subway, don't tell Nick.

Nick: Although I kind of—no, but I kind of—no, I think I would want to know there. Yeah, I feel like I kind of—because I don't have any feelings about it. It's not like, oh, I'm such a sloppy person. I'm a bad person. My fly's down. Like, that's a character flaw. Like, I don't feel any sort of way about it. So I kind of feel like, oh, just tell me. Because it's something also I can correct in the moment because there's the rule, like, don't tell people about a hole in their sweater if they can't go home and change immediately. But, like, a fly, I could totally address that.

Leah: I wonder if people feel weird saying it because you feel like you're walking up to someone saying, "Hey, I'm staring at your crotch."

Nick: Yes, there's absolutely that. That is a hundred percent why there is hesitation. Yes. Because it does feel like a notable area, and so that notability is, I think, what drives some of this anxiety.

Leah: Yes. That is where the anxiety is coming from.

Nick: Now is there a female equivalent to this? Is there something that happens with women's wardrobes? Or women have flies down.

Leah: Women have flies that come down, especially in, like, a pants with a short waist. Ugh. Nightmare

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. Often Those zippers, very—not great zippers in women's pants, sometimes.

Leah: I get anxious about it. Every time before I go on stage, I touch my zipper.

Nick: Yeah. So would you want to know?

Leah: Yes, I would want to know immediately.

Nick: And in all circumstances. We're on the subway. We're at Target.

Leah: Well, I agree with you that I don't want it, like, yelled across the subway. "Hey!" And then everybody looks.

Nick: Right.

Leah: This is so—but, like, if a woman came over to me and was like, "Hey, your fly's down."

Nick: Okay, I could see that.

Leah: But then if a man came over and was like, "Your fly's down," I think it just has to be presented very gender neutral.

Nick: But yeah, I could see this is a little fraught. But I think for me, personally, do it quick. Do it discreetly. Don't embarrass me.

Leah: Yeah, I don't want to embarrass anybody. You don't want to embarrass anybody.

Nick: Yeah. But if you can just, like, discreetly just say, "XYZ. Your fly's down." Or "Check your pants," then that's enough.

Leah: And then I do feel like sometimes you feel like with some guys, there's gonna be blowback. I'm just gonna let them go out there with their pants out.

Nick: Yeah. Fine. Yeah. No, I mean, read the room. If you feel like you're about to say something to somebody where that's not gonna be received in the spirit in which it's intended, well then, okay. Yeah, you don't have to. But okay listeners, I'd be very curious out there besides just whether or not you know what XYZ is, would you want to know? Would you want to know? Would you want to have somebody tell you, and how do you feel about strangers doing it? And how do you feel about men versus women? Or, like, what do you feel?

Leah: Yeah, I would be interested in knowing if people feel the same. I will always tell a friend.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I will tell anybody about to get on stage whether we're friends or not.

Nick: Okay. But yeah, it's everybody else.

Leah: It's the Target walk by that I feel ...

Nick: Yeah. Oh, it's fraught.

Leah: XYZ.

Nick: XYZ.

Leah: This is wild!

Nick: Yeah. Well, you learned something new. So you out there, do you have questions for us? Oh, yes you do! Please send them to us. Send them to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!