Managing Multiple Chopsticks, Behaving at Baggage Claims, Whining About Wedding Menus, and More

Nick: Do you mix up your chopsticks? Do you crowd baggage claims? Do you criticize wedding menus? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Let's get in it!

Nick: So as we know, a lot of times the amuse bouche segment is to help you be prepared. I want everyone to be prepared in life. If there's an unfamiliar etiquette situation, I want you to know what to do. I want you to feel confident and prepared. And so today is no exception.

Leah: I like that because I need as much preparation as possible.

Nick: And this does not come up that often, but it comes up. And so this is what it is. So we are going to dine in China, and we're gonna have, like, a nice meal and maybe, like, a bit of a formal place. Or maybe it's a banquet, even. Like, it's a big Chinese banquet, and we've sat down at the table and in front of you are a pair of chopsticks.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: But actually, there's not just one set of chopsticks. There are two sets of chopsticks.

Leah: Oh! Okay.

Nick: And they're different colors.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: One set is white, one set is black, and they're side by side.

Leah: I mean, I'm gonna guess this is a no?

Nick: Okay?

Leah: But I would say is one to pin back my hair.

Nick: That—that is a no. [laughs]

Leah: Yeah, I thought that was a no. I just wanted to make sure that was off the table. So I'm gonna guess they're for different courses, or we're playing chess. Our chopsticks are playing chess.

Nick: Okay. They are for different things. They are for touching different things, but not different courses. Any other ideas?

Leah: Is one for meat and one for dairy?

Nick: Okay. No, so what this is, is one is for taking food from the communal dishes to your plate. And then one is for the actually putting the food into your face.

Leah: Oh, that's so good. That's so good!

Nick: Right? But that's the point here. And so here's a little more detail. So sometimes actually, the communal dishes are actually gonna have maybe serving chopsticks, which are sometimes actually, like, longer and bigger. Or they'll have, like, spoons with them, or there'll be, like, some serving thing. But if there's not and it's sort of formal, then yeah, you would use this other set to transfer the food to your plate. Now a lot of times they're gonna be different colors, and so it could be black, could be white, could be red. I've read in different places, like, oh, black is always for, like, the communal dishes and, like, white is only for, like, you eating. But I have been to banquets where, like, oh, a set is red and you're like, oh, what do you do with that? So color? Ignore color. Placement. The set of chopsticks on the outer edge farthest away from the plate, that's gonna be used for the communal stuff, and then the chopsticks that are closest to the plate, that's for you to eat yourself. And so that's the way, no matter what color it is, just outer chopsticks, communal, inner chopsticks, non-communal.

Leah: That makes visual sense.

Nick: Right? Yeah. There's some logic there. And we just wanna keep track, you know, let's not mix it up.

Leah: Okay. I mean, once you said that, I was like, "Oh, that makes so much sense!"

Nick: Of course! But I think if you just sat down and, like, oh, why is there, like, multiple sets of chopsticks? You might not know.

Leah: Oh, I would definitely not know. And I feel so much better than I know now.

Nick: Now what happens if you're dining and you're using chopsticks, and a communal plate comes and there are no serving pieces, and you weren't given a second set of chopsticks? What do we do?

Leah: We tip the bowl onto our plate.

Nick: Uh-huh. Yeah. Just pour it out. Use gravity.

Leah: Do we hand sanitize our chopsticks? I'm just throwing out ideas. Do we turn our chopsticks around and use the other end?

Nick: We do that! Yes. That is actually exactly what you do. Yes.

Leah: Whoo! Got there!

Nick: So you'll flip the chopsticks around. Yeah. Did you know that, or was that just a lucky guess?

Leah: No, I just—I was working my way to what could be a possibility.

Nick: After we hand sanitize the chopsticks, then we move to flipping them around. Okay. Yeah, so we flip around and we use the back of the chopsticks to transport things to our plate because I mean, the general principle here is like, oh, let's not, like, double dip, you know? Let's not, like, have the thing that was in my mouth, like, touching the thing that we're all sharing. This is the principle, which I think we can all get on board with.

Leah: Yeah, that's a good train to get on.

Nick: Yeah. No, woo-woo! I'm on board. So that's the idea with the chopsticks. So if you see two sets of chopsticks, that's what this is.

Leah: I love this. I'm so glad to know this.

Nick: All right, that's what I'm here for.

Leah: Also, quick chopsticks story.

Nick: Uh oh.

Leah: Related-unrelated.

Nick: [laughs] Uh-huh. Okay.

Leah: Callback previous episode. I recently was staying with my—we'll call her a sister-in-law. I mean, after you've been with somebody 18 years. I was staying at her house, taking care of her family of lizards—baby dragons. I was taking care of the baby dragons, and I fed all the baby dragons with chopsticks.

Nick: Okay, is that how they prefer to eat?

Leah: That is how they prefer to eat.

Nick: Okay. And so, like, you're taking food, and I—okay, I don't need the specifics on feeding lizards.

Leah: Just so you know, that's another chopstick situation that may come up.

Nick: Okay. And I think it would be very nice when you're feeding the lizards to have one set of chopsticks for the communal lizard food, and then a separate set for actually the lizards to eat themselves.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: I mean, very polite lizards. Slow clap.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep into the airport.

Nick: That's right. So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about the baggage claim.

Leah: Please do!

Nick: And I think there's not much to say, but I just want to go on the record of what it should be, the world I wish we lived in, because I don't think we can achieve baggage claim harmony here. But I at least want our listeners to know how it should go down if we did live in a perfect world.

Leah: Because it does seem like it's a pretty simple format, and yet most places, it seems to not be going smoothly.

Nick: I mean, it's like the same logic of, oh, let's let people off the bus first before we get on.

Leah: [laughs] Yes!

Nick: And if we could all just agree to this, it would just be better for everybody. It's in everybody's best interest. So what is the problem with the baggage claim? What is happening currently?

Leah: Everybody's piling up around the opening, and then—where the baggage comes out.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then instead of moving a little bit around the circle where you're gonna wait two seconds to get your bag, and then nobody can get to their bag because you gotta push through groups.

Nick: Yes. And everybody's standing right up against the baggage claim. Right up against, like, the metal. And so there's no buffer. There's no buffer. And so even if you are down the way, there's somebody blocking the belt.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so to get your bag off the belt, you actually have to get it past them. Right.

Leah: Just back up a little bit. It's literally like the entire airport experience. I was just at the airport. We've already discussed this, but it's literally like the people who stand directly in front of the—where you walk onto the plane when their group has not been called.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And you're like, "You're blocking the entryway. It's not your group. Just step back until it's your time." What is going on?

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, I call that gate lice. So I guess there's also baggage claim lice.

Leah: Yes, there's lice everywhere.

Nick: Right? So have we talked about my theory of, like, why airports are fraught? I don't know if we've actually talked about on the show. My theory is that airports bring people together with different etiquette backgrounds, because etiquette is local. Paris, Texas and Paris, France? Different etiquette. And both are correct in their respective areas. And airports bring people together from different places, and so we all have different ideas of what personal space is. We have different ideas. And I feel like this is one of the issues with the baggage claim.

Leah: I think that's the nicest way to look at it.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I think the other way to look at it is people are tired.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: They're in a hurry.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: They've had a long day, they're irritated. And I think there's also this, like—you know how when you're on a road trip, and normally you eat pretty well, but you're like, "When I'm on a road trip and I pull into a gas station, it doesn't count."

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: "I'm on a road trip. I'm gonna get that fast food I never eat." I've heard this from multiple people. It's not me.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I think some people feel that way about, "I'm just in an airport, I'm not gonna see these people. I just gotta get in and get out."

Nick: Oh, there's no etiquette accountability.

Leah: But unlike the fast food on the road, I do not agree with the etiquette accountability not being real in an airport. It is exceptionally real there.

Nick: So your theory is that crowding the baggage claim spout is akin to Funyuns at a gas station on a road trip?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. Interesting. Yeah, I guess there is this idea of, like, oh, I'm away from home, and so certain norms are suspended.

Leah: Yes. And I'm tired, my skin is dry.

Nick: And it does feel like there's some anxiety component, too. Like, I know that I am often wondering, "Oh, did my bag make it?" And so I do kind of like to know, oh, is it here? But air tags have actually helped that a lot. Like, I can, like, look at my phone and be like, "Oh, my bag has checked in at this airport." So I know it got on the plane and has arrived, so it is somewhere on the compound.

Leah: I definitely think a lot of it has to do with anxiety.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then some people are just rude.

Nick: And some people are just rude. And in Japan—oh, let's go to the Japanese who figured out yet another thing. At Japanese airports, there's always a line that's usually like three or four feet away from the belt. And you just don't cross that line unless you're actively grabbing a bag off the belt.

Leah: Oh, can we just be ...?

Nick: And everybody, except for non-Japanese people who ignore the rules, stands on the other side of that line. And it is so efficient and lovely. It just works better.

Leah: It's just like if we all stood back, it goes so much smoother.

Nick: Yeah. So what should happen is you should spread out along the circumference of the belt, and it should be a single line of people. You shouldn't actually need to stand behind anybody. There's actually plenty of room for an entire plane to stand around a typical baggage belt. And I think we want to be at least three feet away—one meter for our international listeners. And I think we want to only approach the belt when we actively see our bag and need to grab it. And that's it. That's how it should go. And I know we don't live in that world, but it's a fantasy.

Leah: Because it is wild when your bag is coming and you try to grab it, and you can't get through the people.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And you try to grab, you're like—well, I travel with a big bag. If I'm gonna check, I'm checking.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: And so it's like you're trying to, like, pull it over the thing, but there's somebody there and you're like, "I gotta swing this bag to get it over. I'm either gonna hit you or have to put it over my head. Like, just move!"

Nick: Yeah. It's just madness. It is chaos and madness.

Leah: Chaos and madness. And I'm pretty sure I did a repent about this. Not good to complain about somebody on your flight on the phone with somebody, because they will end up being right next to you ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: ... by the time you get off that phone call.

Nick: Yeah. Just text your complaints to your friends.

Leah: Just text your complaints, or wait until you get out of the airport.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. No, that's a pro tip. Yeah.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So baggage claims. I just—yeah, I just wish that it was more civilized, but it is not, and I guess that's the world we live in.

Leah: I mean, be the change you want to see.

Nick: I do it. I try to model good behavior, but I'm not having much of an effect.

Leah: I don't know. Should we get cattle prods? I don't know.

Nick: Cattle prods? Okay. All right. Yeah, what should we do? I think electrification. That's interesting. We can explore this.

Leah: It would almost be fun if they just had a tape playing, like an audio tape that was like—audio tape. What is this, the '80s? Am I gonna roll it with my pencil?

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: "If you just backed up, we could all fit."

Nick: I think—well, love it. However, the etiquette hazard here is not great enough. It's just sort of a moderate inconvenience.

Leah: Well, it's just annoying.

Nick: It's just annoying. And so, like, that doesn't rise to a level of pre-taped messages to stand back, does it?

Leah: I don't know.

Nick: It does rise to the level of having a line painted on the floor, though. I think it does rise to that.

Leah: Nobody—can you imagine people with JFK paying attention to the line on the floor?

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. No, nobody's gonna do that. What if we had a system where everybody has to stand back, and if you cross the line and your bag is not on the belt, you actually have, like, a 10-minute penalty box. Like, you're given a flag on the play and you're like, "Oh, you overstepped the line and your bag wasn't on the belt." And so then you're actually penalized time?

Leah: I like that.

Nick: Yeah. Feel like that's achievable.

Leah: I also recently had a—I can't remember what airport I was in, where I had to get to to get back to the baggage claim was so far. And I walked, and by the time I got there, all the bags were out, and so they had lined them up.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: And we all just walked up and grabbed our bag out of the line.

Nick: Oh, isn't that nice?

Leah: And I was like, that's nice.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I guess we can also just do that. Yeah.

Leah: But then I also guess you're, like, worried that somebody will take your bag.

Nick: So baggage claim, yeah, it's just. I wish we didn't live in a world. It could be so much better if we all just agreed to certain etiquette rules because it does work better. Etiquette does work when we all agree to do it. But this is the fantasy. Although, if we can crack this, Leah, I mean, this is—this is Nobel Prize-worthy.

Leah: I mean, we don't like it easy. You know?

Nick: That's true. Yes. We don't pick the easy etiquette challenges.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So baggage claims. It's fraught. It's problematic. I don't think it's gonna get better.

Leah: It conveys a lot of anxiety.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I mean, no? Okay.

Nick: It's not a bad pun. It's not a bad pun.

Leah: It's very—we're gonna circle back around just like our bags.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. No, no. This is almost as bad as crowding the belt, Leah.

Leah: I'm a good time!

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "My son is getting married in the coming weeks. The bride and groom have chosen a dinner menu of almond-crusted walleye or ribeye steak that will be served medium rare. There are members of my extended family—my sisters, ages 64 and 61—that are notoriously picky. And when they heard what the meal options were going to be, they replied with comments ranging from, 'Guess I'll be eating the sides as I don't like fish or rare steak.' And another replied with, 'Sounds like a lot of guests will be going hungry—including me.' I suggested that they could choose the kids option, which is chicken fingers and fries. And then they inquired if they would still get a side salad. How do I politely respond to any comments regarding the dislike of the menu selections?"

Leah: A) We're very excited.

Nick: Yes. Congratulations and best wishes.

Leah: So people saying things is just like, come on. Come on!

Nick: They are getting a free meal, and they want the free meal that they want.

Leah: It's just so—I almost feel like you could just like—I don't know if these are coming in on the comments or they're saying it to your face.

Nick: Oh, these are to your face. Yeah. I mean, that would be wild. If on the RSVP card you wrote, "Sounds like a lot of guests will be going hungry—including me."

Leah: I mean ...

Nick: If you wrote that? [laughs]

Leah: You know, at this point, nothing shocks me, Nick.

Nick: That's true. My first thing is, why are you getting involved? This is your son getting married in the coming weeks. If people have complaints about the menu, let them complain to him.

Leah: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I'd stay out of this.

Nick: Yeah, don't get involved in this. Yeah. Yeah, this is not your problem.

Leah: I'd say "Feel free to talk about it with blankety blank."

Nick: Although I guess because when stuff like this happens, which is so rude, my guess is that these family members feel more comfortable being super rude to you, and they do not feel comfortable being rude to your son.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so isn't that interesting?

Leah: Or you could go, "Well, I'm sure there will be appetizers so you won't starve to death."

Nick: Or you could be like, "Hopefully you're coming to celebrate this union and aren't just coming for a free meal."

Leah: I like that. I also like, "Sorry, this entire event isn't centered around your needs."

Nick: [laughs] Although I guess I'm a little surprised that there's not a vegetarian option. And I bet there is, right? There must be. Is there no vegetarian option here? It's only fish or steak?

Leah: I mean, regardless.

Nick: Okay. Yeah, fair enough. Also, the chicken fingers and fries? That sounds pretty good. Like, let's go with that.

Leah: Have fries and the salad. I think there's a difference between being, like, "I'm a vegetarian."

Nick: Yes.

Leah: "Is that possible?" And then being like, "I like my steak medium."

Nick: Right. This is definitely not a dietary restriction conversation.

Leah: And either way, it's still not your responsibility, and they should take it up with your son.

Nick: Right. For sure. Right. So how do we respond? I guess, like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't pick the menu."

Leah: They just want to complain.

Nick: They just want to complain. Actually, that's just what it is. They want to be heard.

Leah: They want to be heard. They want to complain.

Nick: Yeah. And I guess you just say, "I'm sorry. Hopefully there'll be other things for you."

Leah: "I'm sorry. I'll take you out to dinner after." No, I'm not gonna take you out to dinner. "I'm sorry. Maybe you can swing by Panera Bread after the wedding."

Nick: Or, like, "I'll let you have my Jordan almonds."

Leah: "I'll let you have my Jordan almonds."

Nick: [laughs] But yeah. Yeah, I don't care for your relatives complaining about the menu. Also, it's not a restaurant. You don't get to pick at a lot of these events. That's just the deal. And so that's the deal.

Leah: Yeah, you just sort of sit and eat the food off the plate that you can eat, and you talk to the people around you, and you wish everybody well, and you cut a rug, and then you—then you go.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I do think that some people live for complaining. Like, it's their whole bag.

Nick: Yes. Yeah. No, this feels more about the performance of the complaint rather than an actual concern.

Leah: You could start a graph in your kitchen with their names on it and then you put, like, a tick every time they complain, and then you could go, "You know what's funny is that I started a tally of how many times you complain just to see if you could break 100 in a year, and you're already at 98. So use your next two wisely."

Nick: So it's like a construction site where it says, "It's been 392 days since our last complaint."

Leah: I mean, these are all—these are all rude ideas, I understand.

Nick: These are terrible ideas. Yes. Do not do any of these things.

Leah: It's just you're having a celebration. It's already complicated. Everybody's trying to get everybody's needs met.

Nick: Well also, we have not actually addressed the nature of these complaints, which are so sassy.

Leah: Sassy!

Nick: "I guess a lot of people are gonna be going hungry—including me." I mean ...

Leah: "Guess I'll be eating the sides."

Nick: "I guess I'll just starve then. I hope that makes you happy."

Leah: "I guess I'm gonna have to smuggle food in my purse so I don't die."

Nick: [laughs] So I feel like that is really the problem here, because, like, if you really couldn't eat these things and you didn't like them, like, "Oh, I really don't like walleye and ribeye steak. I wish there were some other options. Do you think there'll be other things that I can have?" That would actually be a very different conversation. Like, you could still say, like, "Oh, I don't like these menu options. Like, I don't eat those things. I don't like those things." But just the way that is being presented is just like, you could do it in a much nicer way.

Leah: Much nicer. It is that they're sassy. Like, I think the vegetarian thing is a great example. You could be a vegetarian and then write on the thing, "I'm a vegetarian, can I just get double of the sides?" What it is is that it's constructive. I want to find an answer to this. "Hey, can I just do double of the sides? Can I just—is there appetizer? You know, I just am not into—I don't want to make it complicated." This is just people being mean.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And the drama of going hungry.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "I'm going hungry!"

Nick: Well, and you know, even if we did accommodate you with some other entrée, you're not gonna like it. You're gonna complain about that.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Yeah. No, this never ends. Like, some people can't be pleased, and I guess just knowing that some people just can't be pleased is an important thing to know about that person.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Yeah. So our next thing is a repent, and it's quote, "I just spent the entire morning at the car mechanic. A repair that should have been two hours stretched to four hours, and when I was in the bathroom, I saw the toilet paper needed replacing, so I decided to help out and take care of it. Somehow in doing so, I dropped the toilet paper roller into the big, dark trashcan. I tried twice to fish it out—gross! But no luck. And it was nowhere to be found as it was the same color as all the paper towels. I felt terrible, but I left it behind. I tried to imagine fessing up to what had happened, but I was the only woman in the building all morning, and I just felt like a dope, and I couldn't do it. Sorry to the mechanics."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Oh, no. I could picture—I could see this happening.

Leah: Oh, I could see you climbing into the trash can as I have done it. Somewhere in the United States of America right now there is a toilet with no toilet paper roller at the mechanic's. I was just thinking of how we could fix it. Are we gonna go to every mechanic across America and be like, "Are you missing a toilet paper roll?"

Nick: Well, we actually do have some aftermath here.

Leah: Oh, do we?

Nick: We do. It is quote, "I wrote in recently to repent that I had somehow thrown the toilet paper spindle into the garbage while trying to be helpful. I am still horrified, but I am happy to report that I have mailed the repair shop a package of two spindles to be delivered in two days. This gives my heart relief."

Leah: I love this person so much. They are, to quote Love Island UK, this person is a little bit of me.

Nick: A little bit of you. Yeah. Yeah. They're your type on paper, for sure.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I love that you fixed it. Because I think, you know, etiquette problems happen. Of course they do. We all make etiquette mistakes, but it's how do we recover from these etiquette mistakes? And so I think replacing the spindles, I think that was a nice move. You did correct the problem, ultimately.

Leah: I love it so much because I imagine you go home, you're still thinking about it. You're like, "I dropped it in the trash! I couldn't find it!" And then you're like, "You know what? Let's just get this out of our brain. We're just gonna send them a new one." And then I love it because I like to imagine, you know, I always think my conscience is free and clear. I did the best I could. I tried to fix it. Now we can move on. And I bet they're gonna be delighted when they get it. They're like, "We just got toilet paper spindles in the mail."

Nick: [laughs] So thank you for sending in this great repent and aftermath. Love it!

Leah: I love that there's an aftermath!

Nick: And you out there, if you've ever heard a question on our show and you wanted to know, like, oh, what happened? How did that work out? Let us know. We will reach out to the original person, see if they got an update for us and we'll share. We'll share the aftermath. And of course, if you have questions for us or you want to vent or repent, let us know! You can let us know through our website WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently. Or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I'm gonna vent.

Nick: Okay. I'm intrigued.

Leah: And I want to say up top, that I was plotting revenge.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: But then I was like, you know what ...

Nick: And you didn't call me?

Leah: I'm just gonna vent. Well, it was very low stakes. I don't know why it got me.

Nick: [laughs] That's the best kind of revenge!

Leah: I was like, you know, I'm just gonna vent about it. And it really gave me solace.

Nick: Okay. All right. So what has happened?

Leah: So I'm out walking with Dustin and our two dogs. We are on a sidewalk.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And we're out of town. We're out of LA. We're in, like, a suburb area. So there's the sidewalk and then there's a pretty big road. And then on the other side of the sidewalk there's, like, bushes, you know?

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So it's not open grass.

Nick: Pretty typical scene I'm picturing in my head.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So we are walking two by two. We each have a dog.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Coming towards us is a couple.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I'm gonna put them in their mid-20s.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Possibly early-30s. Doesn't matter. I just wanna set the scene.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: They are holding hands.

Nick: Adorable.

Leah: Is it?

Nick: I guess we'll find out.

Leah: We immediately see these people.

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: We go into formation.

Nick: Okay. Single file.

Leah: Dustin drops behind me. We move to the side. Left side, right? So we're now on the left side. One person behind the other person.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Do they move at all?

Nick: I guess not.

Leah: Do they even inch?

Nick: Do they see you?

Leah: To the right? There's nothing in between us except for air that is clear.

Nick: So are they not familiar with, like, how electromagnetism works and how they cannot pass through you?

Leah: They are just looking at us, and then the man is, like, talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, and they're just walking. And here we are with two gorgeous dogs, and both Dustin and I want to fight. We do not like that you're coming up on our dogs. But we don't want to—this is not—we're trying not to be aggressive. We're in a lovely suburban area, so we just move off to the side.

Nick: So now we're totally off the sidewalk.

Leah: Now we're totally off the sidewalk, because we don't want to—I think if the dogs weren't there, it might have been a little bit different. We would have just ...

Nick: Well, you don't like to cause a scene in front of your dogs.

Leah: I do. For some reason, I really just don't want them ...

Nick: [laughs] They don't want to see you in that.

Leah: I don't want them to see me like that. They're both street dogs. You know what I mean? We're trying to give them a—I think we were trying to just not escalate anything.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So we both just moved. But for some reason, it really put us both over the edge that they then didn't say—I was like, we're gonna move some more, and they're gonna be like, "Oh, we were so lost in the romance of each other that we now realize that we've moved two humans and two dogs into the bushes." They didn't say thank you. They didn't say, "Oh, excuse me." I was assuming a thank you or excuse me.

Nick: Why would you assume that?

Leah: I was hoping. I'm gonna take the word 'assuming' back. I was hoping. I was like, this is the last—so then they said none of these things. So then I just stood there, and I was like, "Really?"

Nick: You said the word "Really?"

Leah: I did.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But then I just got more and more worked up about it, and when we got back to the house, I was like, "I'm gonna go out the same time every day and walk without the dogs so they don't have to see when I am my most worked up and just plow through these people in between them with my shoulders down."

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then I thought, is this how we want to spend our energy? You can just bring it up on the podcast. But let me say, if you are on a sidewalk and there are people coming towards you, and you do not acknowledge them in any way, you are garbage.

Nick: Okay. Well ...

Leah: Just move. you could have moved an inch and I would have felt better.

Nick: No, a lot of things could have been different here. Yeah, a lot of things could have been different.

Leah: And here Dustin and I are trying to be, like, polite and lovely and have a nice afternoon. And we're not gonna raise our voices or push into people or make snide comments.

Nick: Instead, we're just gonna hunt them down.

Leah: And instead I've formulated what blocks they must live on because I walked in circles. I just—why are you so rude? You know what I mean?

Nick: No, it's oblivious. Yeah.

Leah: It wasn't oblivious. If it was oblivious, it would have been different. It was cocky. It was so—the guy was so cocky, like, you will move. And I was like, if my dogs weren't here ...

Nick: Entitled.? Is that a better word?

Leah: Entitled is what it is. It was so entitled.

Nick: Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm sorry this happened to you.

Leah: Now that I think about it, I think I will go back.

Nick: [laughs] No, it's on the table. Yeah, for sure.

Leah: I just really—entitled people put me over the edge.

Nick: Yeah. No, I don't care for that either. Yeah.

Leah: Dump him! I wanted to yell, "Dump him!"

Nick: [laughs] So for me, I would like to vent.

Leah: Yay!

Nick: [laughs] So as we've discussed, holding doors is important. We should do that. It's a thing that we should do in society. But is there such a thing as too much of a good thing? So I was recently leaving a building the other day, and you exit the elevator in such a way that you exit the elevator and then there's, like, a long corridor, like 30 feet straight shot between the elevator and the front door of this building. And so I'm exiting the elevator and I'm walking down the corridor, and somebody's at the door and they're holding the door open for me. And 30 feet, that's a pretty good distance. Like, it's gonna take me a little while to get there.

Nick: Also, 30 feet is not a distance I want to yell at someone, like, "No, no, you go ahead." Like, that's—that's a volume I don't want to use in this small space. And so now I am forced to do that fake joggy thing that we do to make it look like I acknowledge you and I'm hurrying up. You know, like when we're crossing the street and the light's about to change, like, you know, as a pedestrian, we—like, we pretend to walk faster even though it's like the same pace. Like that fake jogging thing? Now I have to do this in this corridor to signal to this person, like, oh, I see you. I'm appreciative of your efforts. I'm making an effort to not hold you up. And it's like, I don't want to have to do that. I don't want to have to do that. And so yeah, at what point is politeness actually rude? That's the question.

Leah: Oof! I A) didn't know that we were doing fake joggies. I've been straight up jogging, both at the light and to the doors.

Nick: Okay. All right. So I do more of a fake jog, which is like more of a power walk, but it's basically the same speed as my walk.

Leah: They see the arms moving, they get that there's movement.

Nick: I'm just signaling to you that I'm making an effort. I am changing my gait in a way that acknowledges your existence. Yeah. But yeah, like, it did feel like it was too much. It was too much. Like, I kept them waiting way longer than reasonable to hold open a door. Like, if he did not hold open that door, I would not have given it a second thought. I wouldn't have been like, "Oh, that was rude." No. I mean, it was like 30 feet away.

Leah: I'm gonna stay out of this one. You gotta have your vent. You gotta vent, you gotta get it out.

Nick: You would hold the door. Yeah.

Leah: I did this yesterday. Literally, exactly yesterday. But I yelled because the person had a cart.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then they did the—they were like, "I'm gonna rush." And I yelled, "Don't you rush! I just saw that you had a cart. I'm not in a hurry." I will yell down a corridor.

Nick: No, that's a good—no, that's a good point.

Leah: I also think in this person's head, they were like, "It was too far," but they already were in it. Once you start holding ...

Nick: That's true.

Leah: You cannot walk away.

Nick: Oh, because imagine if he actually, like, held it and then, like, just dropped it.

Leah: And then was like, "This person's irritated with me. I'm irritated with me. I'm just gonna leave." That would be worse. Once you're in it, you're in it. So I appreciate the polite ...

Nick: Yeah, that's true.

Leah: The response was, "I wanna be polite."

Nick: It was coming from—you know what? I am actually going to recant my vent. I'm gonna turn it into a repent for feeling this, because yes, I don't think I wanna live in a world in which we decide, "Oh, it's too far away. I'm not gonna do a courteous thing." Maybe I don't wanna live in that world.

Leah: We've all done it where we held the door and we realized this was too far, and now that person feels rushed and I hate myself. But, like, you can't undo it.

Nick: Well, I guess the idea is if you're gonna hold open the door and it's, like, quite far, you don't wanna make the person feel rushed, but they may feel that anyway. But then your body language and your vibe as they're coming has to be very chill.

Leah: Yeah, be very chill. This is your call.

Nick: You cannot be, like, impatient. Yeah. Like, you caused this. Right. Okay. All right, so this is a repent for me. I'm gonna repent that I felt this. And I'm also using this as part of my tally. But yeah, okay.

Leah: I think you only get a half. You only get a half, Nick, on this one. It's not a full.

Nick: It's a point. I will take 0.5. I will make up a 0.5 elsewhere. Okay, fair enough. Deal. [laughs]

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned—and I really love this because I do feel, as Nick said, his amuse bouches are keeping us prepared—that if I come to a table and there are two sets of chopsticks, I know that the set on the furthest out, the furthest out set is for the communal.

Nick: Yep.

Leah: And the closest in is for me.

Nick: And I learned that there's someone out there who is your toilet paper spindle twin.

Leah: Yes. Yes, yes. [laughs]

Nick: Yep. Just a little bit of you out there.

Leah: I love it. I love it!

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick!

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, I want you to help us get more listeners. So post about us on your social media, mention our show at your next cocktail party. Like, help us get the word out.

Leah: I mean, you could even just leave it on all day while you're gone for your dogs.

Nick: Actually, you will get more polite dogs. We have had listeners who did that, and they did say they're dogs, more polite.

Leah: Ironically, I don't think it's the dogs that need help in this world.

Nick: [laughs] Probably not. But try that. Let us know how it goes.

Leah: I always leave stuff on in the house for the dogs when I leave.

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: I always leave the baking show on.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So I always wonder if Lacy and Greta were to meet the people in the baking show, would they be like, "I know you. I know your voice."

Nick: Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah.

Leah: So I wonder if people at home leave Were You Raised By Wolves? on for their dogs, if when we meet their dogs, their dogs would be like, "I know that voice!"

Nick: So for our next live show, we should ask people to bring their dogs and see.

Leah: I mean, that would be a dream come true, Nick!

Nick: [laughs] You would love that.

Leah: I would love that!

Nick: Well, it may happen, and so make sure you sign up for a newsletter and keep an eye out.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah, it's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: So I want to give a shout out to my friend Negin Farsad, who you—if you saw the live show in New York ...

Nick: Yes.

Leah: She was on the live show. So Negin and I always call each other after horrible shows.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And I recently had a show that I legitimately had to run out afterwards.

Nick: Oh, no!

Leah: Which it was actually funny because then the venue called me to say what a fun show it was. And I was like, "What?" But I—like, everybody was waiting at the elevators, so I ran down the stairs to get out and ...

Nick: Why? Because you wanted to, like, beat the elevator?

Leah: I wanted to beat the people in the elevator because I didn't want to have to make eye contact.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: And what was really funny is that my knee went out halfway through, and I was like, "I'm just gonna—I'm gonna one-leg hop down these stairs and get out." And I just voice memoed Negin as I was, like, jumping down the stairs to be, like, telling her about the whole event, and I was, like, running and getting out. And then she messaged me back and was like, "I think you're still in the line of fire!" It was just very funny. And I think it's wonderful to have friends that you can openly share rough experiences with, who can laugh it off with you.

Nick: And who get it. Negin gets it.

Leah: Who get it. Who gets it. And you can just both be like, "That's the worst!" And you're like, "Go get a cheesecake!" And you're like, "Comedy!" And then you go watch 10 hours of reality television and shake it off.

Nick: And for me, I want to give a shout out to someone else who gets it. And so I was recently in Washington, DC. We were doing a live show. I took Amtrak home back to New York, and I'm in the quiet car because that's how I do it. And I'm in the part of the seating where it's actually four seats around a table. And so I am at the window, and a woman has just sat down, and she's on the aisle opposite me, so we're kind of like, diagonal.

Nick: And behind me are people who do not seem to realize that we are in the quiet car. And they are talking. Oh, they are talking about nothing at all. And they are talking not as a whisper. No, no. They are talking at, like, full volume.

Leah: Ugh!

Nick: And so, like, I turn my head. I kind of do that head turn thing where I, like, try to catch someone's eye, try to convey, like, "Oh, we're talking? Oh, no, no." But it's not working. I can't get anybody's attention. And so then this woman actually stands up and goes over to them, and very nice, very polite, she says, "Oh, I don't know if you realize this is the quiet car. And so, you know, FYI." And that ends it. And it was, like, textbook perfect etiquette. She really nailed it. She nailed the tone. She nailed the approach. I was like, "Oh, so wonderful!" And then she sits down and she was like, "Sorry, my inner introvert just needs to recharge." And I say, "Oh, no apology required." And I was like, "I was gonna say something, and I'm so glad you did, and thank you." And for the rest of the trip, I was on my laptop, she was doing her thing, and we really bonded over not bothering each other. It was really wonderful. So I really—I really enjoyed the kindred spirit there. Like, I really enjoyed meeting her. And I loved it. [laughs]

Leah: I love it. Just visualizing it. I am cracking the biggest smile because, oh, what a dream to have somebody else handle it!

Nick: Oh, it was so great. Like, I didn't have to be the one to say, "No talking in the quiet car." And so. Woman on Amtrak, I salute you!

Leah: Brava!