Knocking on Doors, Handling Overbearing Mothers-In-Law, Cleaning Supermarket Floors, and Much More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go! Our first question is quote, "What is the correct amount of time to wait after knocking on a door before knocking again if you get no response? Does it depend on what and who is behind the door? Is it the same with doorbells? I get nervous that maybe they didn't hear me knock, but I also don't want to rush anyone and be too insistent."

Leah: I wrote "Same same. Did I write this question?"

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: I wrote, "Leah, you are famous for having trouble with doors."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. So I see that this is a problem that exists in the world. Yes. Doors are fraught. They are fraught.

Leah: This is the one that I said—I gave Nick a head's up. I said, "There's a question coming in that I think maybe I should stay away from."

Nick: So I guess my first question is: what door is this? Because I think it does matter what is the door? What is behind it? Because I think the rules for a bathroom door are very different than, like, an office door or, like, a door at a house. I think these are different rules, right?

Leah: Yes. I think that's a great breakdown.

Nick: Right? Because, like, bathroom door, I think we knock. We gotta wait long enough for somebody to say, "Someone's in here" or something equivalent.

Leah: And to make sure that they heard our knock.

Nick: Right. Yeah, if it's like a loud restaurant and you're, like, tapping very quietly, and then, like, maybe that's not enough. Right.

Leah: But that's always like, so—because you're like, "Am I knocking too loud? Do they sound like they're like, 'I heard you!' but you're like, 'I didn't hear you.'"

Nick: I mean, I do get it. There is a knock that sounds impatient, right? It's like a horn in a car.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Like, there's different types of honking. Like, there's the "Oh, the light turned green." You know, boop! And then there's the, "Oh, you're about to hit me!"

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: That's not a boop! So bathrooms, I think that's the rule for bathrooms. Offices, I think we knock once, and then I think we maybe don't knock again if they're not expecting you. Because then it's sort of like maybe they're in a meeting and they don't wanna be interrupted or, like, they're on the phone. So I feel like offices, I don't know how we handle offices.

Leah: I think with the office, I like where you're going. We knock.

Nick: Right?

Leah: They don't answer.

Nick: Right?

Leah: So we go back to our desk, we shoot an email. "Hey, I swung by. Seemed you were busy." Boom!

Nick: Ah! Love that. Right. But I don't think we keep knocking on an office door. Somebody's house, I think because that's a physically larger space, and they could be anywhere in the space, I think we knock, and then we can, like, wait a beat. And I think this is longer than the bathroom wait.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I think it's actually slightly longer. And then I think we can knock again. And I think doorbell, same rules apply. And I think three times on a front door of a house. Three times, you're not home or you're ignoring me. Either way, we gotta leave.

Leah: I like all of this breakdown. I agree with all of it.

Nick: So yeah, I think this is how I handle this. Yeah.

Leah: I knew once we got Nick involved, he'd figure out this door situation.

Nick: [laughs] Great! So our next question is quote, "My mother-in-law is very overbearing. She will text my husband asking us to see us almost every single weekend. When my husband says no, she will then text us in a group or even text me individually to try to bully us into coming. My husband tells me not to respond because he doesn't want us to give in to her bad behavior, but I feel guilty not responding. It is his mom, so I want to honor his wishes. Help!"

Leah: I feel this one. Like, I wonder if we could have a conversation with our husband that's like, "I'm not gonna tell her to come over. I don't want to encourage his behavior, but I feel so rude not responding to your mom. Is there a line I could say, like, 'Thanks for reaching out. We're super busy this weekend. Xoxoxo.' So I'm saying I've seen it. I hear you, but we're not doing that."

Nick: Yes, I think that's a good point. Yeah. I don't think we want to ignore people because that is rude. But I think getting a template, yeah. Or can we just defer back to your husband? Like, oh, check in with Toby.

Leah: Yeah. And I think you and your husband could agree in advance, but I think we can agree to say no, but then you can still fulfill your need to respond.

Nick: Right. Yes. And I think we can just say no. Right? Can we say no?

Leah: Yeah, because you're obviously not free every single weekend. Who is?

Nick: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I feel like that's totally legitimate. And as a reminder, being home with nothing to do is something on the calendar. That is an appointment you can have with yourself. That's allowed.

Leah: Yeah, I think just agree on a line that you can text back—because you're obviously uncomfortable not texting back—that's still a no. But then you feel less bad. Like, you feel like she's been acknowledged.

Nick: What about deferring back to the group text thread that we have? Like, she texts me individually, but I respond in the group.

Leah: I like that.

Nick: Okay. I think maybe that, you know, bring it back to the group. Don't try to, like, pick off one gazelle at the back of the herd.

Leah: That's exactly what's happening.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: And I'm always the gazelle that gets picked off.

Nick: Yeah. No, I think we gotta go back to the herd. Yeah. No, I think that might be your best move. Yeah, let's go back to the group text. Okay.

Leah: Safety in numbers.

Nick: So our next question is quote, "A good bagel place finally opened up in my neighborhood earlier this year, and the whole town rejoiced! The first few times I went there, it was absolutely fantastic. But ever since, it's gone downhill. Not in the quality of the food, but with the service. It's always swamped, so submitting an order online ahead of time is really the only way. And every single time, without fail, they get the order wrong. You want it double toasted? No way. It'll come cold and soft, never seeing the inside of a toaster. You want it cut in half? Absolutely not. Whole only. You said cucumbers? Not a chance. But you will get about three inches of red onion. So my question is: how do I let them know? My phone number is obviously connected to my past orders and my name. Is there a way to let a manager know that their product is great, but their ability to fill orders is abysmal without being flagged as a problem customer?"

Leah: I'm gonna do something that Nick loves right now, and that's circle back to the last question really quick, because I just thought of one more thing.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. No, that's great, because if anybody thinks that, like, oh, we record all of these questions individually, and I just edit them together randomly. No, no, this is one taping. Yep. All right. What are you talking about?

Leah: I think our letter-writer just feels bad leaving somebody not responded to, so if we can agree with our husband what's an okay sentence to say ...

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: Just reiterating, "Yes, I'm busy." And then for sure, the mother-in-law is going to continue to follow up. You don't have to follow up again. You've said you were busy. You said, "Thank you for reaching out." You just want to throw out one and then you can bounce.

Nick:Yes. Until the next week.

Leah: Right. Then you throw out one more, and then you bounce.

Nick: Right. Yes.

Leah: You don't need to text all weekend.

Nick: That is fair, yes. Once you've set the boundary, "Oh, thank you so much. Unfortunately, this is not a convenient time, but perhaps in the future." I mean, "perhaps in the future" sounds very vague with the mother-in-law, but you get what I mean. Yeah, I think once you've set the boundary, like, "Oh, you're not coming this weekend," that's not a negotiation. It's just not happening. Then yeah, you don't have to reiterate that.

Leah: And I think maybe that will make your husband feel better about not giving into her behavior. You're just gonna do it once and then you're letting it go. You just want to acknowledge somebody because it makes you feel better.

Nick: Yes. And it is also nice to not ignore family members when possible. Yes.

Leah: So that's—I just wanted to add that.

Nick: Okay, thank you.

Leah: Now we can go back to bagels.

Nick: [laughs] Back to bagels. So to recap, we have a great bagel place. Great bagels, service is bad. You're just not getting what you actually ordered. And my name is on this order, and I don't want to be flagged as a problem customer. So how do I complain in a nice way? This is the question.

Leah: I think this was the other one. I was like, "Oh, Nick's gonna have to answer, too."

Nick: Well, I know how you would handle this. You're just gonna eat the bagel that you're given and you're gonna say thank you.

Leah: I'm gonna take it home, I'm gonna retoast it myself. I'm gonna do the whole thing myself.

Nick: Right. Yeah. You don't live in a world in which you're gonna complain. No. I think, though, bagels. Bagels are great. Bagels is a great thing.

Leah: Bagels are amazing.

Nick: And I don't think we want to live in a world in which we are eating bagels that we don't want to eat. You know, life is too short for this. So I think we can just identify that oh, this is not the bagel I ordered. And so if you're picking it up, let's just check the order when you get it. "Oh, actually, I think I got somebody else's order. I wanted cucumbers, and this had red onions. Oopsies! I think I got somebody else's bagel."

Leah: I wasn't getting the idea that our letter-writer wanted to say something in the moment. I think they wanted to say to the managers that this always happens. I feel like they're saying in the moment, "This isn't what I ordered." I feel like they want to send a general thing to be like, "Do you know that your bagels are fantastic, but I've never once gotten the correct order?"

Nick: How do we have a broader conversation about this pattern?

Leah: And I just want to make it clear that if I picked up this bagel—I love bagels—I would be like, "Oh, no, I needed it—" because I'm not getting a raw bagel. I would say what you said. There is a lot of situations where I would just take it home and deal with it.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: But, you know, if you order a toasted bagel, you order a toasted bagel. I'm not messing around. I want an everything bagel, and I want scallion cream cheese.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: And I want it toasted.

Nick: Is that your go-to bagel?

Leah: That is my go-to bagel. What's yours?

Nick: Interesting. I like a plain bagel with plain cream cheese. I feel like this is the purest essence of bagel and cream cheese.

Leah: Please tell me it's toasted.

Nick: Always toasted. Absolutely. Yes. I mean, who are these people who are getting ...?

Leah: I recently met somebody who was like, "Bagels are not supposed to be toasted. I do not want it toasted."

Nick: Not supposed to be toasted?

Leah: I was like, "What's going on?"

Nick: No. Ignore them. You defriend them. Yeah. No, delete them from your address book. This is not a relationship you need. No, it does change the whole experience. And so they really should be toasted. But I mean, if you don't want to toasted, I mean, it doesn't affect my life. Live your truth. But I do think it is a superior bagel experience. But it's similar to, like, gelato flavors. I like fior di latte because that is sort of, like, the purest essence of a gelateria. So I feel like when you get somebody's plain bagel with their plain cream cheese, it really tells you a lot about the bagelria, you know?

Leah: I hear what you're saying, and I can appreciate it very much.

Nick: [laughs] So okay. So I guess how do we make it known that there's a service pattern here? I guess I would probably find the email to the manager and just be like, "Hey, amazing bagels. Just so you know, the consistency of the order accuracy is not where it should be, and I wanted you to know that maybe this is an area you can, like, look into and hopefully improve because you're nailing the bagel itself." And I think you just wanna, like, be nice about it.

Leah: I think it's a very fair way to handle it.

Nick: Yeah. So I think I would try that. And I think if you do try that, I would be curious what the response is and does it actually make a difference? I bet it will. Because also, you cannot be the only person, right? You can't be the only person that's having this problem.

Leah: It would be funny if they wrote you back and said, "Oh, we do that on purpose. We're giving you the order we think you should have."

Nick: Oh!

Leah: It's a whole other kind of bagel thing.

Nick: I would have a lot of respect for that business where they're like, "No, no. We know better."

Leah: I don't know why I find that sort of funny.

Nick: No, I think more businesses should just decide to like, "Oh, no, we know you ordered this entree. We think you'd prefer this."

Leah: "We're changing it."

Nick: "Oh, we know you ordered these jeans in this size. But actually, this is a better look for you."

Leah: "This is a much better leg for you." Although, to be honest, I wouldn't mind that at all. If somebody was messing with my bagel, I would be like, "Absolutely not." But if someone was like, "You know what would look great on you? We have some ideas." I'd be like, "Thank you so much!"

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess there's no such thing as a bagel stylist, right? Or maybe there should be.

Leah: I mean, maybe on TV, they make bagels look good, but they don't know what these buds are about.

Nick: [laughs] Right?

Leah: I love the way on a hot, crispy bagel, that cream cheese just sort of melts around the side. Oh!

Nick: And actually, I've never had bagels in New York City because all the "good places," quote unquote, are popular, and then the line's forever. And so, like, I'm not gonna wait in line for a bagel. And so oddly, the only time I ever have a bagel is, like, at an airport. That's, like, the only time I'm having a bagel.

Leah: Just like me and sushi.

Nick: [laughs] Right. And it's not—and sometimes, like, the bagel is sort of like, the best option in the case. And so you're like, "I guess I'll get that." And it's usually, like, an untoasted bagel, cut in half poorly with a dull serrated knife, and then, like, a square the size of a Kraft single of cream cheese that's, like, not attached to the bagel somehow.

Leah: Not at all.

Nick: Only suspended in between. [laughs]

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Wrapped in too much cellophane for $12. And so that's usually how I'm ...

Leah: That is the perfect description of an airport—have you had bagels in Montreal?

Nick: I have not, although I have heard that apparently it's a thing.

Leah: Yes. It's a different kind of a bagel. We used to go all the time and get—you could get, like, day olds in a bag and you get all the different kinds they have. I mean, delicious!

Nick: Yeah. No, it's almost a reason to go to Montreal.

Leah: It really is.

Nick: So our next question is quote, "My father died recently, and I will be in charge of writing thank-you notes. A wrinkle arose today. We as a family did not set up any memorial fund for a specific charity, but people are sending money to us in their sympathy cards. Of course I'll be sending notes of gratitude, but what is the appropriate use of these funds? Do we now come up with a memorial fund, or use these towards funeral expenses or something else? Please forgive me if this seems crass. I'm grieving and at a loss for what's the right thing to do."

Leah: I'm so sorry for your loss.

Nick: Yes. Yeah. No, this is tough. So I was—yeah, I was sorry to receive this email, but I think it's a good question, and I think a lot of people, I think, also have it.

Leah: I also think when you're grieving, it feels so hard to make decisions.

Nick: There's that, and then there's also this pressure of feeling that you want to do the right thing.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: There's all the decisions that you have to make—and there's a lot of decisions. And you do feel like, "Oh, I want to make sure this is the right one, each one of these decisions." And that can feel overwhelming because, like, it's really hard to know what the quote-unquote "right" thing is for all of these things. And so for this, I think a couple of things to note. One is there is no deadline to decide. I think just take this money, say thank you to these people, set it aside. You can decide what to do with it later. Like, there is no obligation to make a decision today on this. So, like, I think just take it off your radar for the moment.

Leah: I love that because it is—you know, you're in the throes of grief. I also think that people are just trying to find a way to be supportive.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And they are just sending it to you if you need help with funeral expenses, if you can't cook dinner for yourself and your family. You know, I feel like they want you to use it for whatever would make you feel right.

Nick: Yes. I mean, I think the idea with sympathy notes that you've been receiving is that these people want to bring comfort.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: This is sort of what they're hoping to do. And yeah, sending money, they're hoping, like, "Oh, please use this money. Hopefully this will bring some comfort." So you can use this money for funeral expenses. If you want to create a memorial fund, that's great. If the family needs financial support due to this loss, that's fair game. And then yeah, I think just wait until later. Maybe there is gonna be some decision that you all want to make as a family about, you know, what your father would want. Or maybe a nice way to honor him. Or, you know, maybe he had a love of some baseball team. Like, maybe let's take the family and let's go to a game in his honor kind of idea. And I think this would be a perfectly good use of this money. So I think anything that sort of feels like it will honor him or help the family, I think all of this is okay.

Leah: And then I wish I could give you a big hug.

Nick: So our next question is quote, "I have a question: are you crazy? Always return the shopping cart? Using a shopping cart isn't like borrowing your neighbor's shovel or something. We aren't borrowing a shopping cart to use at a different store. You are using it after spending money at the shopping cart's owner's store. And you and I would both agree that they only purchase and allow you to use the carts so as to increase the chances of gaining your business. So let the business hire a kid to collect the carts and put them back in a row. By the way, do you recommend we patrons both return the cart and push the carts together into a shopping cart train? And if so, why stop there? Should we not sweep or mop the grocery store floor if we inadvertently had some dirt on our shoes?"

Leah: When I saw this question, I was like, "Nick, we must! We must!"

Nick: [laughs] So this is in reference to a conversation we had in some episode where I think we felt fairly strongly that it is important to return your shopping cart. I think it's just this nice courtesy that we should do. And this person disagrees with us.

Leah: Not only do they disagree ...

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: ... they actively disagree.

Nick: Yes. And I appreciate this.

Leah: To the point where they're like—no, I appreciate it. That's why I was agreeing. I wanna say up top, obviously, we're saying return your card if you're physically able. And also, if you feel safe. Some parking lots at night, you know, you don't wanna walk back, so that's off the table. I think after that, we are returning the cards—Nick, tell me if you agree. I don't care if you line them up. We're pushing them to where the other carts are for the other people around us.

Nick: Yes, we are returning our carts because to not do so is corrosive on society. So I think that's important. But yes, it's a courtesy, because you are not gonna have carts in the parking lot rolling around potentially, hitting other cars. That's rude. You're not gonna have carts in parking spaces that other people might wanna park in. That's rude. And then it's nice to have carts available to other people who may want them. And so having carts in the area where carts are makes it easier for other people, like, to get the carts. Yes, if a store wants to hire people to, like, take care of the carts and they're roaming around and they're making sure that all carts are taken care of 100 percent of the time, then okay. But, you know, that's pretty rare.

Leah: Even if I see somebody, I still put my cart back in the cart place because they're coming to pick them up. I'm doing it for my fellow customer. I'm not doing it because I want the—I feel like I owe the store anything.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, we don't owe the store anything. No. No, this is not about the store. This is about my fellow customers. Yes, absolutely. And their cars and their time. Yes. Because I think—think about if nobody did it, if nobody returned the carts, all the carts were a mile away from the store at the back of the parking lot. Like, how annoying would that be?

Leah: And they're all just, like, rolling around, hitting people's cars.

Nick: Right. I mean, this person is benefiting from other people returning their carts.

Leah: Oh, for sure.

Nick: And it is important that we all participate in this, because etiquette really does work when we all are on board. Now the idea that, like, oh, this is a slippery slope to me cleaning the floors of the store, this is not a slippery slope because me having some dirt on my shoes is not inconveniencing other people in the store.

Leah: Yeah, it's not really related.

Nick: Now, if I have really muddy boots, I think I might want to, like, stomp them out a little bit before I, like, enter the store. Like, let's not, like, track mud down to the dairy section. But it's not the same.

Leah: I think it's like, why do we do so many things? We do it so as a group, it helps everybody.

Nick: Yes. I mean, that's—welcome to etiquette. I mean, the whole point of etiquette is it is a way for all of us to get along. Because all of us want to be selfish. All of us want to just do what we want to do 100 percent of the time. And that doesn't work in society. There has to be some give in order to have some take. And so yes, I want to have a cart available at the front door of the store for me, because that's more convenient. But that requires other people to agree to put their cart back. Like, that's etiquette. We all have to give a little, return our carts, in order to get something, have a cart available. And so this is, of course, what happens all throughout the etiquette world.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: The etiquette experience. Holding doors open for people, saying thank you and gratitude. All of it. It all has to do with it would be so much easier if we could all be selfish, but we can't. So welcome to etiquette.

Leah: I just love that they said, "Are you crazy?"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I'm glad that you wrote this in, though, because it really gave Nick and I a chance to be very definitive.

Nick: Yeah. No, I feel strongly that if you can, you should.

Leah: I also love that Nick said that you're corroding society.

Nick: It is corrosive. I mean, so many of these etiquette things are like, oh, what difference does it make? What difference does it make if you don't return your cart? What difference does it make if you don't send a thank-you note to your wedding gift? Well, it's corrosive. It just chips away. It just is rust on the machinery. And, you know, if there's too much rust, then the machine breaks down, and then society is lost. And then we're all in the wilderness and, like, I don't want to live there. No. I mean, for me, camping is when they don't have room service. So, like, I'm not interested in a society that does not work.

Leah: I really like the wilderness, but I also like a world in which people return their shopping carts. And just to reiterate, you're doing it for other people. It's not because they're making you work at the store.

Nick: Yes. I think for our letter-writer, it was really about, like, oh, we're doing something for the store, and it's a courtesy to the store. And for us, it is not about the store, it's about our other customers.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so I think if our letter-writer, I think, thought about it through that lens, I think they may think we were less crazy. But who could say?

Leah: Who can say? Also, I'm happy to be crazy.

Nick: Yeah, I can live with that. So speaking of crazy, now we have a bonkers.

Leah: Bonkers! Bonkers!

Nick: And it's quote, "My partner and I are getting married this summer, and the online RSVPs are starting to come in. We got this gem today—see attached—from a guest who did not receive a plus one, but who used the form to instruct us to invite an additional person and their child, who, you guessed it, are not invited. Just bonkers! It makes me a bit less mad about the whole thing to imagine your reaction to this story."

Nick: And so here is what they wrote in on the RSVP. They sent us a screenshot. "Hi. So happy for you. Lisa will be attending as well, and maybe Chad, six and a half years old, if he doesn't go with his father. Lisa will be contacting you guys directly. Did you send her an invite? If not, her address is blank." [laughs]

Leah: So bold! I mean, it's unbelievable. I reread this, like, three times. It made me giggle so hard.

Nick: Yeah. So, like, oh, by the way, oh, this person and their Chad are also coming.

Leah: And I mean, a statement. "Lisa will be attending as well, along with the six and a half year old."

Nick: Oh, yeah. Maybe. "Yeah, maybe the kid. Maybe not coming. FYI. We'll let you know."

Leah: "We'll let you know."

Nick: "We'll let you know. But, like, did you send her an invite? I mean, it's so weird that you didn't, right? But here's the address, just in case."

Leah: "Here's the address, so you can get that going."

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: What?

Nick: Yeah. No, this is—yeah, this is bonkers. And to be clear, just so we're all on the same page, the names on the invitation, and this is a printed invitation, electronic invitation, any invitation, the names on the invitation are the names of the people who are invited. If the name is not on the invitation, you are not invited. It is as simple as that.

Leah: Yes, Nick. But what if I want you to just send out another invite to this person who's not on the invitation? "Hey, did you send her one? Here's the address. Also send her one."

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. I think we say, like, "Oh, so sorry for any confusion. Unfortunately, our guest list is set for the moment. Hope to see you there!"

Leah: Boom!

Nick: Boom.

Leah: This is wild!

Nick: This is wild. And you do not have to give in to this. In fact, I hope you don't, because I think more people need to push back on this so that more people get the message that you can't just invite yourself to weddings if you're not invited.

Leah: It also is so wild that they'd be like, "Our kid may or may not be coming. We haven't decided yet."

Nick: "We'll let you know at our convenience."

Leah: "We'll let you know at our convenience when obviously this is not a structured event in any way that you're planning tables and seating. Whatever."

Nick: Yeah, whatever. And also, the fact that none of these people were invited in the first place, immaterial.

Leah: "They weren't invited anyway. I'm just letting you know, I might show up with a posse."

Nick: Yeah. Wow. So thank you for sending this to us.

Leah: Thank you for sharing. Bonkers!

Nick: Very bonkers. And you out there, do you have a bonkers story for us? A vent, a repent? Or just a question? Let us know! You can let us know through our website WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message, (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!