Inviting Dogs Into Your Home, Lowering Gift-Giving Anxiety, Crashing Birthday Parties, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go! Our first question is quote, "I have been invited to a holiday office party. For the first time in my career, I'm working for a very small firm where the owner runs the company from her home office. All of our work is done off site with clients, but we do hold occasional staff meetings around the owner's dining room table. The office party will also be at her home. So do I bring a hostess gift? In my previous job, I would not have brought a gift to a party at the office or at an event space, but would have brought a gift if the party was at the home of a coworker. Is this party at a home or at 'the office?'"

Leah: I was delighted by this question because it seemed like yet another opportunity for me to work in my hummus plates idea. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Okay, that did not occur to me. Okay. All I wrote down was "Tricky. This is tricky." Yeah, the answer for this is not obvious at all.

Leah: No, it's definitely tricky.

Nick: Yeah. Because it is true, like, if you're invited to the office holiday party and it's at the office or it's at a restaurant, like, yeah, you're not bringing a gift to the host—which is your boss. Like, no, of course not. But now it's in their home. And then it's like, oh, what is it? What is this event?

Leah: Which is that's why I feel like can we just bring a food item?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess before we get there, why is it that it feels tricky? Can we put our finger on that?

Leah: Oh, I think it's exactly this question. Is this party at a home or is it an office?

Nick: Right. So I guess then the question is: is your gift in the capacity of giving a gift to your boss, which you wouldn't do for an office party? Or is it in the capacity of giving a gift to the host of the home where the party is taking place, which happens to be your boss? And I guess maybe that's the distinction. Like, what is the gift you're bringing?

Leah: Well, I think that we can take B, the host—the person who's at the home of.

Nick: Right.

Leah: Who happens to be our boss. But then because it is a work party, we could then make the hostess gift a little bit of a "This is for everybody if you want to share."

Nick: Okay. So, like, "Oh, I brought something for the office."

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Like, "Oh, I brought something for all of us to celebrate with."

Leah: But also they're more than welcome to just put it in their kitchen if it doesn't work with whatever it is. We don't expect anything from it. But it's a plate of cookies, it is holiday chocolates. It is hummus that we have dyed red and green or blue and white. Maybe a silver. It also—we did our colors this year: blue, white and silver. It's my first LA Christmas.

Nick: Just a sidebar: is dyeing hummus colors, is that actually a thing that's happening in the world?

Leah: I don't—and is it a side note? I would like to add that I don't know of anybody's ever dyed hummus different colors. I'm just throwing out—I'm throwing out wild ideas.

Nick: I mean, that does seem wild. That definitely seems wild. The idea of bringing food? Yeah, I mean, in general, bringing food to a party for your host, yeah, the idea is anything you bring as a hostess gift is not something that has to be served. It's up to the host to decide what they do with this gift. Hummus doesn't feel like something that's like for later. Hummus feels a little perishable. So hummus sort of implies, oh, you're serving this hummus now. Like, this is a for-now hummus. I don't think there's such thing as for-later hummus.

Leah: Yeah, I agree with that.

Nick: Right?

Leah: That seems to be ...

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: ... this is a for—unless you want to have some late-night hummus, and ...

Nick: Which, you know, there is a world in which you want some late-night hummus.

Leah: I mean, I've wanted late night hummus.

Nick: So okay. So we're gonna bring something, and we want to bring it in the capacity—well, I guess that's my question: am I feeling like I don't want to show up empty handed because it's something in somebody's home and they've opened in their home and they've kind of gone through that trouble of hosting? And I guess that's what the gift is for, and that is for your boss as a person, not as your boss. So then I guess then the gift needs to be for that person, not your boss. So the idea that this is a thing that's for everybody? Like, that actually doesn't square with that concept because, like, I'm not giving you a gift because you're my boss hosting an office party. I'm giving you a gift because you are a person who has opened their home to me. Am I overthinking this? Maybe I'm overthinking this.

Leah: I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking about it this way. I think that you're making very good points. I'm just blurring the lines to be like, we don't know what the line is, so I'm just bringing—because that is what the feeling is for me. I don't want to show up at a home empty handed.

Nick: Right. Actually, I think your approach is better. I take everything I said back, just ignore everything I just said. I think because this is a blurry event, the gift we bring should be blurry. I think we would just want to match the level of blurring that this event is, and I think maybe that's the right answer.

Leah: I feel good with that answer. I feel like it's blurred, and so I'm just doing what I think covers all—as many of my options as I can. And that's a group food.

Nick: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so like a food item? "Oh, I baked some brownies. I brought some hummus."

Leah: But then with the brownies, it's like that you are then welcome to just put it in your kitchen and not put out. I'm not gonna say anything about it. You're gonna make that decision for me as to what this gift is, because it's a blurred line. "Here you go!"

Nick: Okay, I think this is the right answer. I think we want to bring something that's sort of vague, non-specific, and something that's not necessarily for the boss specifically. So, like, if the boss is really into ornithology, we're not gonna bring a book of, like, North American birds because that's, like, too specific to this person.

Leah: Unless we have a relationship where we give a gift to our boss.

Nick: Which, like, just generally speaking, when we talk about office gifting, they should typically flow down, not up. So bosses can give gifts to people below them, but people do not typically give gifts to their supervisors.

Leah: I think we could bring a plate of cookies, and here's some cookies. And then if we wanted to give our boss or our supervisor a card to fill that other need because we felt like that was something we wanted to do, I think that's fine.

Nick: Okay. Oh, the card. Yes, the card is nice.

Leah: "Been such a pleasure working with you this year, I look forward ..."

Nick: Yeah. Oh, a nice heartfelt note, handwritten? Okay. This is—this is not bad.

Leah: And then I think that when you put it in the envelope, you would dump a bunch of glitter inside. Is this correct, Nick?

Nick: Absolutely correct. Yes.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: This is—well, if you don't like your boss, absolutely. [laughs] So I think we got somewhere with this.

Leah: I feel good about it.

Nick: Okay, well, have a great time. Our next question is quote, "I recently invited my sister-in-law and brother-in-law to spend the night at our house on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. They are from out of town. My sister-in-law then asked if she could bring their dog with them as well, and explained that their neighbors who usually watch their dog when they go away, were not available to do so over the holidays. I was taken aback by this question, and sort of stammered that I'd have to talk to my husband and see how he felt about it, and I said I'd get back to her ASAP. In the past, I would be raving on and on about how rude she was to ask, but I'm trying to do better. Rather than indignation and feeling put upon—which I feel—I'm planning on just telling her no. I appreciate her position, but I'm not comfortable with her dog staying the night in our house, and I appreciate her understanding. I ask you, is this the best way to deal with this situation? Could I have done something better? Was she raised by wolves?"

Leah: May I?

Nick: Please! Yeah. No, as I was reading this question, Leah was very animated.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So I feel like you have some thoughts here.

Leah: I have layered thoughts.

Nick: Okay, let's start with the first layer of that onion.

Leah: So I also recognize I have skin in the game in this question.

Nick: You are a dog parent.

Leah: And not only a dog parent, I bring her everywhere. So there's multiple layers to this question. I understand feeling put upon by questions and being like, "Why would this person ask me that?"

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And then having feelings about it, because then I feel—essentially I feel guilty saying no, but I want to say no. And so I'm like, why would they put me in this position? And I've had conversations about this where I can't believe people asked me certain questions that I consider to be out of bounds. And my therapist would always say, "They can ask and you can say no. And it doesn't have to be any more than that." So I always think about that up top. So that's the top layer. I understand the feeling of having people ask questions that you don't think are appropriate questions.

Leah: In this case with the "Was she raised by wolves?" I don't think that what your sister-in-law is asking is wild, because she's explained that the person who watches their dog is gone.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So they have nowhere to put their dog.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And it's the holidays, And you can't just leave a dog at home for 24 hours, so it may affect whether or not they can actually travel. So I think her asking is because she needs to know is there a place I can leave my dog because they need to have a home for their dog during the holidays.

Nick: Yes, I was a little surprised by the reaction of our letter-writer. It felt like maybe there was more that has happened in the past with this dog, or this is maybe a string of other sort of requests that come from this person, and this is sort of a piece. Like, it felt like this reaction to this request, which seems sort of reasonable, and it feels like it was asked in a way which was like, "Is it okay if we bring our dog, yes or no?" like, it feels like the reaction was a little strong. So I am wondering if there is more behind this that we are not aware of. But yes, it is true that you are not obligated to have a dog in your home if you really feel like you don't want to have a dog in your home. Just know that that may mean that the person that comes with that dog also can't come. So that's just what that would mean. And so if you're comfortable with that, well then that's what that is.

Leah: I think that what threw me off is that I would be raving on and on about how rude she was to ask me. People with dogs travel with their dogs.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And you can say no.

Nick: Yes. And I think people who travel with their dogs know that not every place is pet friendly, and that no is sometimes the answer.

Leah: Yeah, they're asking because they need to know where their dog goes. Also, like, I could say, "Hey, can I—we're coming. Oh, thank you for inviting me. We'd love to come. Can I bring my dog?" And you would say, "No, I don't have dogs in my house." I'd say, "Oh, okay. Totally understand. I'm gonna still come, but I gotta stay in a hotel. I have nowhere to put my dog, so I'm just gonna go to a dog-friendly hotel. We'll come over for Christmas dinner."

Nick: Right. That's a perfectly fine way to handle that.

Leah: Yeah. I just don't think that her—the sister-in-law asking the question is a Wolves-y question at all.

Nick: No. So were you raised by wolves? No. [laughs]

Leah: If I was like, "Hey, I have a horse, and I only like to travel with this horse. Small horse, goes in the back of the car."

Nick: Basically a pony.

Leah: "Could I have a small pony in your house?" I would, as the host, be like, "You know, seems a little odd to me that this person wants a horse in my house, that I would ..."

Nick: Although how delightful to bring a pony.

Leah: I would say yes just for the Instagram pictures, but I'm saying that might to me be like, "What a wild question!" I would still say yes, because that's the kind of time I like to have. But ...

Nick: Although would it be a wild question? Because, like, what's wild about that is, like, oh, you have a pony. Like, that's the wild part.

Leah: No, what's wild is that you keep it in the house. That's what's wild.

Nick: Oh, that it's an indoor pony.

Leah: That I want to keep my pony in your—I have an indoor pony.

Nick: [laughs] Sure. Okay. Yeah well, I mean, you know, pony gets cold.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, because that would be—but if I had an indoor pony and you knew that about me, like, me asking if I can bring my indoor pony to your house, like, that request does not then become wild. The wildness has already been established.

Leah: That's so true. And that's the point. If you're asking a dog—if a dog person's asking you if they can bring their dog, they have a dog. They're a dog person.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah.

Leah: That's who you invited.

Nick: Although I want a pony now.

Leah: Nicholas Layton.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I can't even tell you how clearly I see this. You having like a ...

Nick: I want like a My Little Pony-style pony.

Leah: ... like a Shetland just in your apartment.

Nick: Yep!

Leah: I—and if they could just sort of, like, walk behind you while we're on Zoom?

Nick: Oh, just in the frame?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: "Don't—don't mind—don't mind my pony."

Leah: We just have to hold for sound because they're clomping.

Nick: No, this is a great—this is a great idea. I'm definitely gonna put this on the maybe list for next year. It's not a hard no.

Leah: Which is it gonna be? Is it gonna be a pony or a fancy toilet?

Nick: Oh is it either/or? No, no. Next year is all about more not or.

Leah: More not or.

Nick: I'm not making choices next year. It's all about both. So our next question is quote, "I was wondering if you had any suggestions for a small gift or gesture I could make for coworkers who were let go this year? Is there something I could do in addition to sending them a handwritten thank-you note for their time with our organization with warm wishes? There are two coworkers that I don't know very well, but I would like to show them that I care about them as people, even though we no longer work together. Thoughts?"

Leah: I don't know why I keep having the same answer, but it's a reflection of question number one. I think a thoughtful card, "Thinking of you at this holiday season. You know, warm wishes to your family or you and your family or you." And I'm never mad at some holiday cookies.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, like, the right tone. I mean, I think for these people it's nice to be thought of. And so I think the idea that oh, you put pen to paper and you didn't have to and you mailed me something, I think actually that is very nice. I think that'll have a nice impact and will come across as thoughtful as you're intending. I think I want to make it sort of a nice card, so I think we want to say a few more things than maybe your usual holiday greetings, but I think that's great. Yeah. And cookies. I'm not mad at a tin of cookies either.

Leah: I'm not mad at it at all.

Nick: Yeah, so I like that. I don't like the idea of, like, gift card. I think a handmade gift or like a thoughtful sort of crafty thing, I think that's kind of nice.

Leah: I think it's nice because what you're doing is very personal. You're saying—you know, you're not saying this specifically, but the thought behind it is, "You aren't here anymore, but I'm thinking of you," so you're giving them something thoughtful.

Nick: Also, I think what makes that work is that when it's something that's sort of handmade or crafty or something, like, thoughtful in that zone, it means that it came from you as a person. Because anything you bought, that could be like, "Oh, did that go on the corporate credit card?"

Leah: Hmm.

Nick: You know, did that come from the business that just fired you, like that coffee gift card? Whereas like, oh, the cookies, like, obviously you made the cookies. So I think that's also why that works, because I think what we don't want here is your note to be on behalf of this organization in any way. Like, it needs to just be on behalf of you as just a human being.

Leah: Yes, I like that. You as a human being thinking of another human being.

Nick: Yeah. So I think that's kind of what that should be.

Leah: I think so too.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Also, look at our listeners. So lovely! Our listeners, always so lovely.

Nick: Right? Yeah. We—I actually—I would venture to say that our listeners, probably the most lovely.

Leah: Probably the most lovely.

Nick: I mean, if not our listeners, who? Who's got better listeners?

Leah: Nobody.

Nick: So our next question is quote, "My husband and I are not huge gift people. We rarely exchange gifts with each other, and for our three children, we curate a few meaningful gifts that we know they will love. Both of our families, however, love gifts and always insist on large, elaborate gift exchanges. They even send each other birthday gifts all year long. Each year at the holidays, I spend considerably more money and time and mental energy on gifts for our extended family than on our own family, and each year it gives me so much stress and anxiety. We can afford the gifts, but the time and mental stress are slowly making me want to flee the country. I'd love creative ideas to lessen the stress of all this gift procuring instead of just bowing out."

Leah: This is where we're so lucky to have a Nicholas Layton on board, because I feel like if anybody is going to come up with the right wordage for this situation, the verbiage ...

Nick: Okay.

Leah: ... the walking-the-line wording, it's Nicholas Layton.

Nick: Well, why is it wording? It's not wording. We have to buy gifts for these people.

Leah: I think if this person wants to flee the country, we can find a way to tamper it down a little bit.

Nick: Yeah. No, I think there's a solution here. But I mean, what's your take on gifting? You love gifts. You're all about it.

Leah: I love gifts, so I'm not—I mean, obviously I'm the other people in this.

Nick: You're the wrong person.

Leah: But ...

Nick: You're the wrong person to ask.

Leah: ... if the person on the other side of the equation, I don't want the other person on the other side of the equation to even feel like they have to give me gifts. And I mean that from the very bottom of my heart. I like gift giving. So I don't think these people want you to want to flee the country.

Nick: Yes. I don't think anybody wants to give people anxiety. I mean, like, nobody is like, "Oh, I intentionally want to give this family member anxiety over this thing." Like, that's not what's happening, but it is what is actually happening. That's the reality. That's the result of all of this. And anytime gifting becomes not fun and like a drag, like, then we have lost the whole reason for giving gifts and gratitude in the first place. Like, we've, like, forgotten the whole point of this. And so I think we have to rediscover something here.

Leah: And I think that we can change it to make it work for us because ...

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Yeah, as I was saying, I don't think these—these people, if they knew how much it upset you, they would be like, "Oh no! Oh no!"

Nick: Well, hopefully. Otherwise that's greedy.

Leah: Well if not, I don't even know what to do.

Nick: [laughs] So my initial thought here was that we need to just come up with a quote-unquote "standard gift" each year: one thing that we give to everybody. Like, just the one thing. And so this year we are gonna do hand-dipped beeswax candles. And I'm gonna buy 25 of them, and there's just gonna be one for everybody. Everybody gets the same thing. And I'm gonna buy these things at Labor Day, and they'll just be ready to roll when it's time to give them out. And so I think each year you just want to come up with the one standard gift, and that's what you do. And so I think that would be the solution here. And if all these people are expecting more from you, I'm so sorry. That is not what is happening. You are gonna receive my standard gift this year, which this year is the beeswax candle. And so you are welcome. And I think that's how—I think that's how that goes.

Leah: I also like what Nick said: buying it at Labor Day. I think it's so much less stressful—not less stressful, I don't get stressed out buying gifts because I have some sort of a wild—I love it, and I understand a lot of people aren't in that boat, but I enjoy doing it over the summer because there's no pressure to think of an idea or get anything done. You're just—"Oh, I'm out. This person would like this. I'm gonna grab that now." Now it's done.

Nick: Yeah. So I think if you just have a plan at some set time of the year to figure out what your one thing is that's universal and works for everybody, then that's what that is. I know people who actually do the same standard gift every year. It's like, oh, you always, you know, can peaches in the summer, so I know for Christmas I'm gonna get, you know, a can of your peaches. And, like, how wonderful. And that's just like, I know that's your standard gift and that's what I'm going to get from you every year. So you don't even have to come up with a new standard gift every year. But I think for this letter-writer? The standard gift, I think that's—that's the way to go.

Leah: I forgot how much I love home canned peaches. Oh!

Nick: It is one of my favorite things.

Leah: They're really good.

Nick: It's definitely one of my favorite things. Just yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. If that's your standard gift, I would be very happy.

Leah: I also though—sorry, I'm just writing down "canned peaches."

Nick: [laughs] I even like just, like, the canned ones you get in the supermarket. They come in, like, the syrup? Like, I'm even into that. Yeah.

Leah: Have you ever—how do you feel about them on top of cottage cheese?

Nick: I'm not a cottage cheese person, but I would do it on top of, like, a Greek yogurt or on top of ice cream.

Leah: Oh! Oh, wow!

Nick: Well, then we're getting more into, like, a peach melbas sort of direction, which is also fine.

Leah: Yeah. Now we've moved into a whole new place.

Nick: Happy to go in that direction, yeah.

Leah: I do think that in a world where we feel very anxious about this switch over because, hey, we were—we were going down this lane with everybody ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: ... and now we're changing lanes. We're doing this other thing. If—I'm trotting this out like a baby Shetland pony, I'm trotting it out, and we can bring it back in the stables if we think it's a bad idea.

Nick: No, no, we keep the pony in the apartment.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: It's an indoor pony we're trying.

Leah: It's a—I have an indoor pony who travels with me. I'm gonna get her a animal vest for the plane, and she will sit next to me in the seat.

Nick: I'm sure it's been done on Spirit.

Leah: I'm sure it has been done on Spirit.

Nick: Yeah, I'm sure we could Google that real fast. [laughs]

Leah: If we felt like it was too much anxiety just making this change, I feel like we could contact the other whoever—I feel like in every family there's like one person who sort of spearheads the whole gift giving when it's like, contact that person, say, "You know, hey, within our close—you know, our family unit in this house, we don't actually do gift exchanges, so I find this very overwhelming. But I love this back and forth with you. But I want you to know, I sort of need to change the way we've been doing it because it brings me so much anxiety."

Nick: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think that would help with the anxiety to sort of make an announcement that, like, "Oh, you know, we're dialing it back this year." I guess you could do that. Yeah. I think you probably want to make that sort of pronouncement before anybody else has done their shopping, in case they want to change their plans for you.

Leah: Yeah, I would just have that conversation in the summer with, like, the person that sort of is spearheading this whole thing. And I would explain that it's coming from—it feels overwhelming for you. And I, as the person receiving that information, would be like, "Oh no, I don't want this for you to be overwhelming at all. Of course!" And if they aren't like that, then, I mean, that's on them.

Nick: Yeah. Then enjoy this candle. Enjoy these canned peaches. Happy holidays. End of story.

Leah: I think that that's—we have multiple ideas.

Nick: Yeah. Great. So our next question is quote, "I usually use Facebook events to invite people to informal gatherings, which is pretty standard in my community. I usually hide the guest list, so neither invitees nor accepted guests can see it. I do this for a few reasons. First, I have a tiny house and can only accommodate 20-ish people, and I want to be able to invite additional people as people decline without the stigma of a B list. Also, I don't want people analyzing the acceptances to see whether or not my event is worth their time. I recently received two requests to unhide the guest list. One person—let's call her Lisa—claimed she wanted to avoid a particular person she believed might be on my guest list. I assured Lisa that this person wasn't invited, but she maintained that she still wanted to see the whole list. The other person—let's call him Chad—wanted to get a general idea of the size of the party, which I was happy to provide without sharing specifics. I feel like these requests are unreasonable. If I were mailing paper invitations, no guests would ever have access to the entire guest list. Just because you can make it public on social media doesn't mean you're required to, right? Moreover, I can't guarantee the accuracy of the online list. A 'Yes' RSVP may not actually attend, or there might be a random plus one at the last minute. This all feels like some Gilded Age, who-will-cross-the street nonsense. I just want friends and high quality snacks in my house."

Leah: A) Great Gilded Age reference.

Nick: Love it!

Leah: Also B) How lovely are our letter-writers? They don't want—they already know they don't want people who get invited second to know that they were invited second. So thoughtful!

Nick: Very nice!

Leah: I wrote in capital letters, "IT'S YOUR PARTY. YOU CAN HIDE THE GUEST LIST IF YOU WANT TO."

Nick: Absolutely. Yes, not a problem.

Leah: Also, this Lisa person ...

Nick: Yeah, let's talk about Lisa.

Leah: What—can you imagine I'd say, "Oh no, that person's not coming." And then you say, "I want to see it anyway." I'd be like, "Maybe you should see yourself out of here." I—what, what?

Nick: My first thought with Lisa is like, can we not tough it out? Like, if there's somebody who's invited to this party that you just can't stand, can't be in the same room with, I mean, really? For 90 minutes? Can we not just be adults and tough it out? Like, is that not possible? Like, sometimes that's what's required. So, like, do you even need to burden your host with your drama? Like that's kind of rude to, like, put this on your host and make them edit their guest list to accommodate you. Like, sure, there may be—I don't know what happened with Lisa and what their issue is with this person, maybe it actually is quite serious. Maybe it is really true that we cannot be in the same space together. Fine. But it's like if it's not that and you're just, like, mad at someone I don't know, tough it out rather than burdening my host with this.

Leah: To add onto that, just because there was the second part of it, it also just seems like a controlling issue. Because our host has clearly stated that person is not invited, and then you demand to see the list anyway? I'm sorry, what?

Nick: Or are there a lot of people that you don't want to be in the same room with, and so you want to know if anybody else is on that list? Maybe there's, like, a lot of people, you can't be in the same room with.

Leah: Maybe you should stay home if this is ...

Nick: Well, yeah. If that's the case, maybe you're the problem.

Leah: And then Chad, in a world I can imagine—this is the only world I can imagine. Say you're a bit of a holiday fanatic like a Leah Bonnema, and you like to show up at holiday parties—which I feel like this is gonna get red flagged immediately by Nick, but I'm just gonna say—and we're trotting it out, Shetland pony.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Trotting it around the apartment.

Nick: Does this involve dyeing hummus?

Leah: No, but it's in that vein.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: And say we would like to—because it's the holidays and we love to make homemade candy, we love homemade candy, we can't stop making homemade candy, We want to share it with the world. And we want to bring a homemade candy little bag for all the—all the guests, even though it's not our party, but we just like to give it out.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: We say, "About how many people do you think are gonna be there because I just want to make sure if anybody wants homemade candy, that I have enough for everybody."

Nick: "My house is a fudge factory right now, and I want to make individual fudge bags for all of your guests."

Leah: "If that's okay with you."

Nick: "How many bags should I make?"

Leah: :If that's okay with you that I hand out fudge at your party. I don't have to hand out fudge at your party, but I want you to know I've been making fudge, and I love to share it at the holidays, so I'm just—I'm looking for a is this a fiver or is this a fiftier? Let me know!"

Nick: Okay. I mean, that's an intriguing possibility for Chad. I actually had something for Chad, which was sort of like a reason why that question maybe is not so problematic—which had nothing to do with fudge. It's that some people don't like big parties, and their decision to attend actually probably would depend on how big the party is. And so Chad may just not be comfortable in groups larger than some number. And if it was 20, it might actually just not be a place he wants to be. And so maybe that's why he's asking. So I would give Chad a pass if, like, that was the spirit in which that was being asked.

Leah: Oh, I would too. I don't find Chad's question to be anywhere near the same.

Nick: No, it's Lisa were mad at. Yeah, Chad? We're fine with Chad.

Leah: I'm also—this may surprise people. I've probably brought it up before, actually. I don't like large groups of people at parties either but, you know, so I will ask people how big is this party gonna be? But I'll specifically say, you know, why, so they don't think it's because I want to know who's there. It's more because I'm— I'm guessing how long I can be there without having a panic attack before I gotta go home and watch a baking show.

Nick: And generally speaking, how it should work with invitations is the host needs to give the potential guest all the information they need to make a decision. So the host does need to convey where this is, when this is, and most importantly, what this is. And the "what" should actually be fairly descriptive, should indicate the level of formality, should indicate sort of the size and nature. Like, are we doing keg stands at your party, or is there gonna be a harpist in the corner? Like, is this canapés? Is this—you know, what is this? That all should be conveyed in the initial invitation so that a guest can just decide yes or no without any sort of follow up questions. Like, that is the ideal invitational situation.

Leah: And I do feel like our letter-writer is saying they just want high-quality snacks and some friends. Like, we get the idea. This is like a home get together. This is a casual holiday hangout.

Nick: Yeah. So yes, I think hiding the guest list, honestly, I think you should always hide the guest list. I think guest lists should never be public. Like, I'm trying to think of occasions, like, oh, when that's a good idea. Like, I don't know if it's ever a good idea. I think the host should always just keep that to themselves.

Leah: I also find it unbelievable that somebody—Lisa, not Chad. Chad I can see in multiple worlds in which that's a regular question as we discussed. But Lisa being like—saying why you say no, that person's not there, and them being like, "I need to see it." I just can't ...

Nick: And you know Lisa has never thrown a party. She's never invited you to her house. Yeah. No, people who do this have never entertained. Because I think if you've ever entertained and thrown a party, you would know that, like, oh, you don't—this is not something you do. No.

Leah: I don't—I don't like it.

Nick: So maybe everybody in their lives should have to work retail, have to work in a restaurant and have to host a party. Maybe—maybe these are like three things that everybody in life should do.

Leah: I also think they should spend about a week in a hospital.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I don't mean being sick. I'm obviously not wishing—but I just mean to see, like what, people are going through.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess at the end of the day, it's like we need empathy boot camp.

Leah: [laughs] Empathy boot camp. We get you for a month. These are the four weeks you're doing.

Nick: Yeah. Week one, you're working retail. Week two, you're in a restaurant. Week three, you're a candy striper in a hospital. Week four, you're throwing cocktail parties every day.

Leah: [laughs] Yes! Yes! Yes!

Nick: So, all right, great. I mean, I feel like this is a thing that should happen in the world.

Leah: I mean, this would—maybe this is our reality show, Nick. We take 10 unempathetic people ...

Nick: Oh, gosh! Oh, that casting call. Ooh!

Leah: Oh, I would—I would probably—I would get a rash.

Nick: Yeah. I can think of 10 people right off the top of my head in my personal Rolodex who are good candidates.

Leah: Imagine it's not even a casting director making a call. It's you specifically. "Hey, I thought you would be great for this."

Nick: "Hey, I think this is a good fit for you."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I mean, this is not a bad idea, Leah.

Leah: I think it would be interesting for people to see.

Nick: Yes. Oh no, to have to see how other people's lives are and sort of experience it for themselves and then realize how that changes their own behavior? Yeah, this would be wonderful. Because so many times you're like, "Don't you know what it's like to be on the other side of this?" And then you're like, "Oh, you have no idea."

Nick: Yeah, you have no idea. So of course you act like this, Lisa. You've never thrown a party.

Leah: And you're not the kind of person who—I can go into things and not have done the thing and be like, "Oh, I wonder what that's like on the other side."

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And some people just seem to not—it's not what's happening.

Nick: Yes. I think it's a skill that does need to be practiced. You know, we don't all come out of the gate with this. But yeah, a lot of etiquette does require that skill. I mean, to be able to identify with other people, act in a way that you would want to be treated yourself, you know that is not sort of natural for everybody, as evidenced by everything that is happening on airplanes or in restaurants or on the subway or anywhere when I leave the house. Yeah. [laughs]

Leah: I also just want to say on a brighter note ...

Nick: Yes?

Leah: You know who else comes out of a gate?

Nick: A pony.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Oh, I can see the merchandise already. So our next thing is a Bonkers.

Leah: Bonkers!

Nick: And this is bonkers.

Leah: It's bonkers.

Nick: And it's quote, "For my daughter's ninth birthday, a dad dropped off his son. We did not invite this boy. The dad did it really quickly before I could even say hello. We were so confused! My daughter even had to ask the boy his name. I had made a scavenger hunt with 10 clues for the 10 kids I invited, and this boy was just there—not a friendly kid. At pickup, I said hello to the dad and then said, 'Sorry, I didn't have a goody bag for your son, but I didn't know he was coming.' And the dad said, 'Oh, how could you? He didn't get an invite. He overheard the kids talking about it walking home from school, and I told him that parties are for everyone.' I was so flabbergasted that I just said 'Bye?' I said it as a hopeful question. They left. Now my kid is a teen and photos from that birthday still make us laugh until we cry. And no, my daughter has never been friends with that boy."

Leah: This is ...

Nick: Bonkers.

Leah: Bonkers. It's almost like the person who invented the word "bonkers ..."

Nick: Had this in mind.

Leah: Knew about this story.

Nick: Yeah. It sounds like the dad just dropped the kid so fast knowing that the kid wasn't invited, and that was intentional.

Leah: Oh, the dad is—if we could follow this dad around, what kind of life is this man living where he tells his son parties are for everyone? "Oh, did you overhear that? I'm gonna drop you off and I'm gonna bounce so fast. And then when I pick you up, I'm gonna openly be like, 'How could you know they would have been here? He wasn't invited, and I left him anyway.'"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: What? What? What?

Nick: I mean, what else is happening? Like, "Oh, I'm on an airplane. I'm just gonna go up to first class and I'm gonna, like, just take somebody nuts and be like, 'These nuts are for everybody. I don't have a ticket for first class, but these cashews, they're for everybody.'"

Leah: My guess is that the dad actually walked this kid right into the pilot—right into the pilot's cockpit.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. "Flying planes is for everybody!"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. I mean, on some level, how wonderful would it be to go through life with the part of the brain that we have that's like, "Oh, you can't do that," to not have that part of your brain? For—for that just to be missing? Like, how freeing!

Leah: That is also where we get serial killers.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: My favorite line in this whole thing—it's the same part of your brain. My favorite line in this is "Not a friendly kid." [laughs]

Nick: Oh yeah, that's very telling. That's very telling. Yeah. Which is like, hmm.

Leah: Would have been a whole different story if they're, like, "Dropped him off. So lovely! Life of the party. Made everybody feel so special."

Nick: "He brought his own pony and fudge."

Leah: Pony and fudge! [laughs]

Nick: I mean, what a party! Yes.

Leah: Wonderful way to bring it all back in, Nick!

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. So I—this is bonkers. Yeah, this is definitely bonkers. So thank you for sharing this with us.

Leah: Thank you for—sometimes these—some of these bonkers, like, I sort of achieve weightlessness. Like, all of the air rushes out of my body, and then it hits me really hard and I feel like I'm falling to the ground. That's this question for me.

Nick: So do you have a bonkers story for us, or an etiquette crime to report or a vent, a repent, or even just a question? We'll take it all! Please send it to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!