Handling Hot Potatoes, Claiming Seats at Buffets, Talking During Musicals, and More

Nick: Do you cut your baked potatoes the wrong way? Do you steal people's seats at dinner parties? Do you ask people if they're related? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Let's get in it!

Nick: So for today's amuse bouche, I want to talk about baked potatoes.

Leah: Oh, I'm so glad because I love potatoes.

Nick: Okay, that was my first question. How do we feel about baked potatoes specifically?

Leah: Well, we do a lot of potatoes in this house.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Not just because it comes up in The Lord of the Rings.

Nick: Oh, that's true.

Leah: Potatoes. Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew. I'm so glad you were ready with that, Nick. Oh!

Nick: [laughs] I'm ready. Yeah.

Leah: And well, we also just got done doing Whole30.

Nick: Okay. Meaning you're allowed to have potatoes now?

Leah: Potatoes—no, potatoes are like the only thing on there.

Nick: Oh, potatoes are allowed in Whole30?

Leah: Yes. Like, and it's your only starch. So I mean, you po-ta-to.

Nick: Okay, so you are an expert on baked potatoes.

Leah: At this point, I mean, I would really consider myself to be an expert.

Nick: So how do you eat it? We have a baked potato, and it's now on your plate. And what do you do with this potato?

Leah: Has it been cut yet? No.

Nick: No. It is just a potato out of the foil.

Leah: Okay. So I cut it down vertically the long way.

Nick: With what?

Leah: A knife?

Nick: Okay, so you're going vertically with a knife. All right, go on.

Leah: With my fingernails? I go with a knife.

Nick: We'll talk about it.

Leah: And—oh, no, Nick!

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Oh, no! And then I put ...

Nick: Sorry.

Leah: Great. Well, I'm using a knife.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then I put in each little cup side, each side, I put—I do a little slice in each one. And in that slice I stick in some ghee. Boom, boom.

Nick: Ghee? Okay.

Leah: And then I put pepper on top of each side, and then I smush it with my fork.

Nick: Okay. All right. All at once, we're just mushing it all up.

Leah: After I put the ghee in, so it then gets all through the whole thing.

Nick: Okay. So this is not ideal.

Leah: I mean ...

Nick: [laughs] I mean, it's how many people do it. And for me, baked potatoes just does not come up at all in my life. I think it's just not served in New York restaurants. Like, I'm not dining out and it's like, "Oh, here's a baked potato." And at home, I'm not having baked potatoes. And I guess, like, when does it come up in my life? I guess it just—I'm not in baked potato circles.

Leah: "I am not in baked potato circles." If each episode had to have a title that was a quote, that would be it.

Nick: But I do know the rules about baked potatoes. And there is a weird rule.

Leah: Oh, no.

Nick: That you're not supposed to use a knife on a baked potato.

Leah: Well, what are you cutting it with?

Nick: Okay, great question. So there is actually a great book. I don't think I've ever mentioned it. It's from 1917, and it's called Don't Eat Like a Boob. And in this book, quote, "A potato is never cut with a knife. It is broken open with your fork, and should never be touched with a knife or pressed down in your plate."

Leah: Nope, I'm gonna eat like a boob because I like to slice it. I like to let the ghee melt.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then sometimes, if I really want it, I'll throw those halves back together so they have extra time for melting.

Nick: Emily Post would not be thrilled. She says, quote, "The knife must never be used to scoop baked potatoes out of the skin or to butter potato. A fork must be used for all manipulations of vegetables. Butter for baked potatoes, taken on the tip of the fork, shovel fashion, laid on the potato and then pressed down and mixed with the prongs, held points cured up."

Leah: I feel like she's talking about a little baby potato that you mush with your fork, not like a large potato.

Nick: We're talking about baked potatoes here.

Leah: No, I'm gonna just say, no. I'll do that with my little potatoes, but with my big potato, I'm slicing it open with a knife. Emily, not the first thing we've disagreed on.

Nick: No, it's kind of a finger food in a weird way. And Amy Vanderbilt, she has weighed in on baked potatoes. She agrees with everybody, and she says that you hold the potato with your left hand—or in your case, your right hand, since you're left handed—and then, quote, "One explores its innards with the fork." So you're exploring innards.

Leah: How are we holding a hot potato?

Nick: I—you know, it doesn't have to make sense, but that is what you're supposed to do.

Leah: But it does have to make sense, Nick.

Nick: [laughs] And then regarding the mushing it all up all at once, Amy does have some thoughts on that.

Leah: Hit me, Amy.

Nick: She says, quote, "Except for a child, do not scoop out all the potato, set the skin aside and mash the contents all at once with butter and seasoning."

Leah: Well, I'm not taking it out. I eat the skin. I do it inside the skin.

Nick: I think for Amy's purposes, unless you're a child, we're not doing that.

Leah: Well, I think for Amy's purposes, I am a child. [laughs]

Nick: Okay, fair. That is a loophole. That is a valid loophole. Yes. So I think the question is, though, like, how did we get here? Why is this the rule? Because we—we agree. I admit, this is bonkers. We're holding hot potatoes? I mean, there's a whole expression in the English language about that.

Leah: Yes, there is! Hot potato!

Nick: So when we need wisdom, we turn to Miss Manners, Judith Martin, and she says, quote, "Baked potatoes confound those etiquetteers who like everything to make sense and claim that there's a logical reason as opposed to tradition, which is always interesting but seldom logical for all table manners." And then she has this, like, funny aside where she says, "Miss Manners, who revels in philosophic chaos, is not one of these." Philosophic chaos.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: She revels in it. [laughs] I love that. I want to revel in philosophic chaos.

Leah: I feel like that's a fun time.

Nick: Oh, that's a real fun time. And so she continues, quote, "One of their prime examples is the ban against using one's meat knife on fish or salad. The explanation being that meat knives have steel blades that would corrode from lemon or vinegar. Okay, but one is also banned from using one's meat or any other knife on potatoes. Why? Because so many people eat potatoes with lemon juice? One is just not supposed to. That's all." That's all. One is just not supposed to. It's the tradition. We just don't use knives on potatoes. Doesn't have to make sense.

Leah: Doesn't work for me.

Nick: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, etiquette is like poetry. You know what the rules for baked potatoes are, and you can continue to do what you're doing if you wish.

Leah: It's not the putting the ghee in with the fork, because sometimes I do that. I get wild. It's the opening the potato.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I'm not splitting it with my fingers. That's—I mean, I would say insanity.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: It's a hot potato. I'm gonna split it with my fingers? Can you imagine if you're at a dinner table, and then you're sitting there with human beings, and you just take a hot potato and you start splitting it with your fingers? Stop. That—it's the—it's the cutting it down, and then you're doing it with your fork like a—what? There's an easier way. Take a knife, slice it.

Nick: Well, I mean, obviously, we would need finger bowls.

Leah: I would need—and some sort of a glove that is heat resistant.

Nick: Oh, yes. An oven mitt. Yes. Well, luckily, baked potatoes are not typically served at formal meals so, you know, it does become a more casual operation. I will say, though, it does create a different texture of potato for you. It's like, a little more fluffy. There's more angles, there's more surface area, and so there's more places for butter or paprika or other seasoning to cling to. And so I actually see a practical reason why maybe we want to do that because it creates, like, more of a fluffiness. And so, like, that's better for flavor, I think, rather than a hard knife edge, where you have slick surfaces that are too slick to grab onto stuff.

Leah: You do the hard knife edge, and then when you put—which I mentioned. I put it and I mushed around my fork, then you re-get those things.

Nick: Okay. All right.

Leah: I see what you're doing, Nick. And I—I'm just splitting the—I'm splitting a potato with a knife.

Nick: Yeah. I think I feel like we should evolve this rule. I feel like maybe it's time to evolve this.

Leah: I mean, you know, I'm not like, the—but I just feel as a potato eater ...

Nick: Yeah. You're not coming to this casually. You're not a novice.

Leah: I'm not a novice. I have skin in the game. I have potato skin in the game.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, you do. And I think, does it make your methods invalid? No. Maybe we'll call it a regional variation.

Leah: Regional variation. Or, like, they are—I'm like a professional potato eater.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And they are, like, doing it at parties.

Nick: Right. They're just doing it on major holidays. Right. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Okay, so your expertise is worth something here.

Leah: Po-ta-toes. Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew.

Nick: And don't use a knife.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep into a dinner party.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about what to bring to somebody's house that is not wine.

Leah: I think this is a fun one.

Nick: Yeah, totally. Because I think so often we're invited to somebody's house for, like, a dinner party or something, and we're like, "Oh, gotta bring a bottle of wine." But it's sort of like, no, that doesn't have to be the only thing we could bring. So, like, let's actually get a little creative here.

Leah: You know, I asked Dustin and—just to get—I was curious, like, what would he think? And he and I both ...

Nick: You revealed the deep dive topic to someone else?

Leah: Oh, I didn't say it was a deep dive. I just said, "Hey."

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So it was out of context.

Nick: What should we bring to somebody's house that's not wine?

Leah: And we both actually thought of the same thing as our first choices.

Nick: Okay. And so what was that?

Leah: We both thought it would be really nice to bring, like, classy seltzers.

Nick: Classy seltzers. So a Topo Chico.

Leah: Like a collection of fun seltzers.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Artisanal seltzers.

Nick: Okay. So mineral waters elevated. Oh, that is kind of fun. I like that.

Leah: Like a collection of them, you know? And then they can have them for themselves, they can put them out, whatever they want to do.

Nick: Okay. Yeah, that's fun. I mean, I think before we even get there, Ms. Manners would say you don't have to bring anything. The thing you have to do is reciprocate the invitation. So I don't know if we live in that world anymore because, like, can you really show up somewhere totally empty handed? That does feel not great unless they're, like, close friends and you hang out with them all the time. Like, if you're invited to a dinner party, it does feel like showing up empty handed. Ah. Even if you reciprocate. Yeah, you do need to bring something.

Leah: Yeah, it doesn't feel good.

Nick: Doesn't feel great. Right. Okay. Water. That's fun. I think for me, whatever I hand over, I just want there to be a line about that item that explains why I'm giving it to you. So "Here are my favorite waters. I thought this would be fun. You could do a private mineral water tasting sometime." And, like, one sentence why I thought this was a thoughtful gift for you. And so whatever it is, as long as you can explain it, I think it actually makes it a good gift.

Leah: I also think, like, if there's something you know about them that you know that they love and you just picked it up.

Nick: Oh, well, that's the ultimate in thoughtfulness. I mean, the best gifts are the ones that are thoughtful and surprising, and the ones that make the person feel heard or seen. So, like, "Oh, you heard me talking about my love of bird watching," or "You noticed that I do X, Y, Z in my car. And so because you were observant, then you thought of me and you thought this gift would be fun for me." And, like, that's a great gift.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: So yeah, anything in that category. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's a little trickier. I mean, that's hard to, like, pick up at, like, the Piggly Wiggly on the way over. But if you can nail it.

Leah: Yeah, but they could be—like, you know, they love—to do our callback. A Buc-ee's fudge. Then you're at a Buc-ee's and you go, "Oh, we're going over to Erin's next week. She loves the Buc-ee's fudge."

Nick: "Let's get some fudge."

Leah: I mean ...

Nick: Yeah, great.

Leah: I also have a friend who always brought a baked good whenever we would go or she would come over. I loved it. She made it herself, so it was, like, full of love.

Nick: Yeah, I think baked goods are always great, especially if it's a for later, for tomorrow. I'm not giving this to you because I want you to serve it at this dinner party.

Leah: Yeah. It's like a for—for you.

Nick: Yeah. I think morning. Yeah, anything for the morning is great. So that could also be granola, preserves, baked goods, coffee, tea. Yeah, I think all that's a great category. And then we have, like, things for the house. So I don't love things for the house because unless you know me very well, I don't necessarily want tea towels. I don't really want a candle. Like, do I want these things? I'll graciously accept them but, like, do I need to make room for this in my house right now?

Leah: I love a candle. I know this—it's a divisive topic. A lot of people don't—I love a candle. I feel like it's safest now to always go with, like, a beeswax or a soy or a coconut because they're the—a lot of people have, like, allergies or they're—they're the safest to burn.

Nick: Yeah. I don't necessarily want the three wick peach bellini candle.

Leah: But I personally love a candle. I know a lot of people do not, but mmm! Love them.

Nick: So know your audience. Yeah. I mean, I think for me, the gifts that I prefer as a host are things that I can either use up, eat, or deposit. So ...

Leah: Wow!

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. So can I just—can I cash that check? Or, like, can I eat it? Or, like, can I use it up? But, like, something that doesn't permanently live in my home. I'm less excited about that category.

Leah: I see what you mean. I like that. I like that. Although a candle burns.

Nick: A candle burns. Yeah. So that's good. Although I think if you knew me, you would know that I'm more of an incense person.

Leah: Well, I would never bring you a candle, Nick. I'm saying ...

Nick: No, you would—you know better.

Leah: There are some candle people out there.

Nick: Right. And then when it comes to incense, obviously, I'm super picky. Like, there's only one brand I like. And so unless you're in Kyoto picking that up, like, what are we doing?

Leah: Wow.

Nick: [laughs] I'm the worst. Other things I think are good. If your host has a pet, that is your go-to answer always. Just get something for their pet.

Leah: I mean, that's lovely.

Nick: Right? As a pet owner, can that ever go wrong? Like, is that ever not the move?

Leah: Yeah, they love little toys. I mean, you may have a dog—if your friend's dog has a special diet.

Nick: Right. Don't bring treats.

Leah: Yeah, but like a little squeegee toy. Fun new ball.

Nick: Squeegee toy? Like, I'm cleaning windows?

Leah: Squeaky. Sorry.

Nick: Oh, squeaky. [laughs]

Leah: I'm using those words interchangeably. Like a squeaker.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: [squeaks]

Nick: Got it.

Leah: Greta loves those. She goes wild.

Nick: Yeah. So I think all these are good things. I think things not to bring: anything that requires work. So we've talked about it before. Don't bring flowers that need to be, like, arranged. Like, if it's not ready to roll, like, don't do that. Plants. Plants are tricky. Not everybody wants plants, and not everybody wants the plant that you brought, even if they are into plants. So, like, plants is a little dicey. And then nothing that could come across as making a comment. So ...

Leah: "I brought you teeth whitener."

Nick: Right? "Here's a self-help book about not being a narcissist. Yeah. Yeah, so, like, anything—anything that feels like, "Oh, this maybe—" like, even gifts like a Fitbit. Like, I don't think you would ever bring, like, an exercise watch as a host gift. But, like, that has the potential of, like, having a comment. So, like, we kind of just want to stay out of that lane.

Leah: I'm trying to think of—which is you show up and someone gives you, like ...

Nick: "Here's a bathroom scale."

Leah: [laughs] "Oh!"

Nick: "Oh, here's tweezers."

Leah: "Oh, pointed!"

Nick: "Oh, yes, they are pointed." [laughs]

Leah: "Please get in there. Fix those brows."

Nick: So yeah, anything that could be misinterpreted? Yeah, I don't think we want to do that. And I guess when in doubt, when, like, you just don't know your hosts or you have nothing better in mind? Box of chocolates. You know, it's a little cliche, but ...

Leah: I think a box of chocolates is nice. That was on my list. A box of chocolates is always nice.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, and it doesn't have to be, like, a big—a big one. You know, like a little box of four little jewels of just nibbly bits. You know, that's fine.

Leah: Just a little something to be like, "I appreciate being here. Thinking of you. I thought of you."

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, and that's what that gesture is. Yeah, it's just like, "Oh, thank you for having me. Looking forward to the evening." So yeah, listeners, if you have any ideas of, like, fun things that you like bringing that is not wine, let us know. We would love to create, like, a master list of ideas for people just to have at the ready.

Leah: Oh yeah, I love that idea.

Nick: Yeah, let's—this will be a resource. We'll put this on our website.

Leah: I love that. This will be a resource!

Nick: Yes, this is a resource. Yes. We're getting very service-y, so look for that.

Leah: Fantastic.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote ...

Leah: Wait, really quick.

Nick: What?

Leah: I just want to do a callback.

Nick: Oh?

Leah: To a episode, a previous episode that I had a thought about.

Nick: Okay. It's been haunting you?

Leah: It's been—well, it isn't haunting me in a bad way. I just re-listened to it and I thought, "Oh." I had one more thought. I thought it was important to add.

Nick: Okay. What?

Leah: It was from our eighth grade class questions.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: About the haircut.

Nick: Oh, what—what do you do if you get a bad haircut?

Leah: Yes. And I just thought—we didn't bring this up at all, and it was specifically a haircut. But I just wanted to add that if it was actually a hair dye ...

Nick: Oh!

Leah: I think do bring it up because they will fix it.

Nick: Yes. Dye is definitely different than cut. Yes.

Leah: So I recently had—I went to a new person, and I don't know, I really think she tried to get what I said. It's just that my idea of what color was and her idea of what color was were, like, different things.

Nick: Well, you gotta bring a Pantone book.

Leah: I mean, it was—we ended up pulling out all these things and went over. But she was more than happy. She was like, "Oh, I get it now." So just—it took a few, but we got it and it was totally fine me being like, "Oh, this wasn't the version that I—" I mean, I said in a polite way, and she was like, "Oh, I get it." And then we worked it out. It wasn't֫—because they can fix dye.

Nick: Most of the time. Right.

Leah: And once your hair is cut off, it's cut off. But I just wanted to add that in case our—in case any of our eighth graders were getting their hair dyed and they were like, "Oh, I can't say anything." They've fixed—I mean, you can always say something, but they'll fix it.

Nick: Okay. I love that this has been on your mind.

Leah: I just wanted to bring it up because I had such a great—this was such a great opportunity for me because I wasn't happy with something, but I really felt the person try. I brought it up. She wanted to do what I wanted, and we figured it out.

Nick: Oh, clear communication. It can be done.

Leah: It can be done.

Nick: All right, so to the wilderness then. Our first question is quote, "I recently attended a dinner party at a private event space. Cocktail time was outside on the patio, and then everyone was asked to go indoors for dinner, which was being served buffet style. Many of the chairs on the long main table had been claimed, so we headed to the smaller table. It was rectangle shaped and had four chairs on each side. One side had just one empty seat, and the other side had three empty adjacent seats. So my husband and I put our things down on that side, and he put his coat on the chair, and I put my coat on the chair, plus my purse and a glass of wine on the table. I've attached a diagram to make it easier to understand the layout." And thank you so much for sending a diagram.

Leah: They did, yes.

Nick: "We went to the buffet, and when we returned, there was a woman sitting in the unclaimed seat on our side. But there was a guy sitting in my husband's seat, and my husband's coat had been moved to the empty seat across from the woman on the other side of the table. I said, 'Uh, what's happening?' And the woman said, 'Oh, well, I just wanted to sit next to my husband.' I was speechless, but thinking, 'Yeah, so did I. That's why we put our things down there.' My husband, so as to not cause a scene, went and found another chair and put me at the head of the table on the side so at least we could sit together. Then I had to make two trips to my old seat to transfer all of my things to my new seat. I'm looking at that woman and thinking, 'Who does that?' I also have to say I had Leah's voice and inflection in my head as I was sitting there fuming. So my question is: What is the correct etiquette for saving seats at a casual dinner party? Were we wrong to put our things down before we had our food and were ready to sit? And do you think we handled what happened the right way, or was there something else we should have done?"

Leah: Who does that?

Nick: Uh, yeah. I mean, this woman. "My needs come before yours."

Leah: Also, are we touching people's things?

Nick: We are touching people's things who clearly—like, everybody knows what the coat-on-chair symbol means here, what the purse-and-wine-glass-at-this-spot means. It's not like we don't know what that means.

Leah: It's unbelievable.

Nick: This woman's just like, "Well, I want to rearrange this so that I can have a seat next to my husband."

Leah: "And I'm—I'm moving your belongings."

Nick: And I think, actually, what is most maddening is that this type of event, a dinner party at a communal table, our obligation as a guest is to socialize with the other guests. So now I'm at a table with these people, and I don't want to be because these are bad people, and now I have to be nice to them?

Leah: These are bad people.

Nick: And, like, what's—what is my small talk? "So tell me, Lisa, what other selfish things do you enjoy doing?"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Like, what is this conversation? Like, what is this conversation we're having? So, ugh!

Leah: This gets a full, like, wow!

Nick: Wow!

Leah: Wow!

Nick: So let's break it down. Is it okay to save a seat before you go up? Totally fine. In fact, in a buffet situation, that is what you do.

Leah: That's what you do. You're not carrying your jacket and your bags and your drink up there.

Nick: No, we get a seat, and then we go and get the plate. So that's normal and expected. So nothing wrong there. The husband went and got an extra chair—and I'll post this diagram to our social media accounts and in the show notes so you can see. Basically, it's just like a long table, and there's four seats on either side. And what the husband did is got an extra chair, a ninth chair, and put it on the short side of the rectangle where there was no place setting. And the husband turned a table for eight into a table for nine. I don't love that. I don't love that. I see why we had to do it but, like, I don't love that.

Leah: Mmm, I have no problem with it. They were—the other option is to push that lady physically out of the chair and be like, "That's my chair." And I feel like the husband was taking the high road and making it work for everybody.

Nick: Yes. I mean, I think the thing that could have been said is, like, "Oh, I don't know if you saw my things. I also want to sit next to my husband. I'm sure we can find another place for you, too."

Leah: Oh, you want to get him up?

Nick: I am tempted to start there.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Yeah. Like, "Oh, so sorry for any miscommunication. We had put these things down because we wanted to sit together. But, like, let me help you find a new spot."

Leah: And then just stand there and stare at them.

Nick: Yeah, I think that's one way to go. Because we've decided we don't like these people now.

Leah: Oh, yeah. We don't like these people. We do not like these people.

Nick: So, like, the damage is done. They're not on our Christmas card list now, and it's not gonna get better. So if we have to sit with these people anyway, at least let me do it in my original chair. That's an option. Another idea is there was an empty seat across from this Lisa woman. And so we could have said, "Hey, would it be possible for your husband to sit across from you," and ask one of the people to move. So they can sit across from each other, that's adjacent and then, you know, we can have our original seats. And that would avoid, like, adding this ninth chair at the table. So we could ask one of the people to, like, move around or shift down.

Leah: So now we're asking another group of people to move.

Nick: No, in the diagram, everybody else at the table would be fine. We're just asking the husband to move around the table across from his partner.

Leah: Oh, the husband. The husband. Okay.

Nick: Right. But that could have been something to ask for. Like, "Oh, would you mind?" But yeah, just accepting it? I mean, I guess that is the most polite thing because you've just allowed them to be rude and you'll just fix it on your end.

Leah: Which is sometimes the easiest thing.

Nick: Yes. And as long as it wasn't a problem to sort of add this extra chair thing, then yeah, I guess that's fine. Yeah, I guess the venue didn't mind. Your host didn't mind that this was happening.

Leah: I do sort of love the idea of standing there and being like, "No, we would like our chairs back."

Nick: Yeah. And I think you could say that in a polite-yet-direct way and, like, non judgmental. Be like, "Oh, surely you didn't just touch all my stuff and move my chair because you're just being super selfish right now. Like, obviously that wasn't what you meant. Of course not." So if the tone is just super chill, like, "Oh, I guess you didn't see my drink here. No problem. I'm sure we can find you another chair."

Leah: I would love to watch that.

Nick: It's hard to land. It's hard to land. I appreciate that that's an advanced etiquette technique. Because also, the response that you might get back, it's hard to know how that's gonna be received.

Leah: A woman like this is not moving.

Nick: That's true. She's already midway through her salad.

Leah: She's moved your belongings.

Nick: Yeah. She touched your stuff.

Leah: She touched stuff.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Knew exactly what was happening, and sat down and started eating. She's not moving.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So you're gonna have to cause a scene. It's not gonna be one thing; you're gonna have to say another thing. And I think the question is: Would you get a thrill out of that? Would that give you the strength to carry on after having such an etiquette crime committed to you? And if so, have at it.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Or is the easiest thing to do just to add another chair and be like, those people ...

Nick: Are the worst.

Leah: Are the worst. And Leah and Nick ...

Nick: Will validate you.

Leah: Will validate you on that. And also think very bad thoughts about them.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. No, they're in my thoughts. [laughs]

Leah: I do think in these moments we can look at somebody—because we're making it easy for them by moving. We could look at somebody and go, "Wow."

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I guess short of a wow, because I would want, as I'm going to pick up my stuff in two trips to move to my new chair, I would definitely want them to know that I don't approve. And so I would want to convey this in some way. In an etiquette-approved way. Like, I don't want to be rude myself, but I definitely would want to be surprised. Like, "Oh, I'm so surprised. I'm surprised."

Leah: I think you could you say, "I'm so shocked you would move somebody's stuff."

Nick: Yeah, that's fair. Actually, that's fair.

Leah: Because you're just saying exactly what happened. "I'm shocked that you would move somebody's stuff. It's shocking. I'm shocked."

Nick: I'm shocked.

Leah: Shocked.

Nick: [laughs] And then you say, "Good day."

Leah: "Good day."

Nick: So our next question is quote—and this comes from a listener in Paris, so bonjour. Quote, "I'd like to know what to answer when I go out with my best friend, and people—for example, waiters—ask us if we're mother and daughter. She's 50 and looks her age, and I'm 35, but I look younger. What can I say? We feel very uncomfortable after these comments."

Leah: I always like a "No?"

Nick: Or in French, "Non." [laughs]

Leah: And then—we gave that to you in both languages.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah.

Leah: And then just a cold stare. Don't fill the air.

Nick: Yeah, I actually had the exact same thing, which is just "No." Period. End quote. Ooh, Leah's staring at me right now, and it feels so chilly.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Oh, it really—I hope I haven't got little burn marks in the back of my skull now. Wow, she's good at this.

Leah: [laughs] Because people—people say ridiculous things. So it's not like you can head them off.

Nick: Yes. And this is ridiculous.

Leah: You can't head them off by being like, "Please don't bring up our relationship." People just say stuff, and it—they're—it's ridiculous.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, "No." Period. And there's a lot of different tones you can use. "No." "No."

Leah: I like that one.

Nick: Oh, that second one? Yeah. I mean, that's—that's a little more fun. And you also don't have to answer the question. "Oh, so kind of you to ask." And leave it at that.

Leah: Or you could always say, "I find it so weird that people feel like they need to bring up how they think we know each other."

Nick: "Oh, we get that so often. Isn't it wild how people make assumptions and ask rude questions like that?" Too far?

Leah: No, I like that one. I was gonna say I like that one.

Nick: That's too far. That's not approved. You could just answer the question, which is like, "No, we're just dear friends."

Leah: Yeah, but they don't like it.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, you shouldn't ask this question because no good will come of this question. Also, why do you need to know? Why is this information important to you?

Leah: Yeah, just stay away from it. You know, don't bring it up.

Nick: Yeah. So "No." Period. Or "No." Period. I guess those are your two options.

Leah: And I'm voting for B.

Nick: Yeah, I think decide who you are that day. Or one of you can do one, and one of you can do the other. The first can do "No," and then the second go "No."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Or you can just stare and not even say no.

Nick: Okay. Yeah, so practice your staring.

Leah: I would just say "No," and then—with the second no that Nick was doing, and then maybe they'll learn for next time not to do that to somebody else.

Nick: Or puzzled look? How about puzzled look?

Leah: I like puzzled look, and then a "No."

Nick: Okay. Puzzled look. I'm thinking about it, like, "Oh, what a weird question. No."

Leah: Yeah, I like that.

Nick: That's the best. Yeah. Because that registers some displeasure with the question.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Which I think we want to convey, which is like, "Oh, how odd."

Leah: I think more than registers displeasure, it also registers, like, it's not even just that I don't like the question. It's also, I think, "How odd of you."

Nick: "How odd of you to have had those words come out of your face."

Leah: "How weird!"

Nick: Hmm! Curious!

Leah: And not weird in a good way.

Nick: Yes. Not in a good way. No, no, no. "We'll have the brie, please."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So—so thank you for these great questions. And you out there, do you have questions for us about anything? Let us know! Let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we had recently. Or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: You know what, Nick?

Nick: I don't, actually.

Leah: You know how I was running dry for a while?

Nick: Oh, is the reservoir full?

Leah: The dam has broken.

Nick: Okay. [laughs]

Leah: And I was like, "Which one of these should I choose?"

Nick: Oh, we have choices!

Leah: And I actually think I'm gonna go with the one—there was two that bothered me so much.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: One of them is just people are out of control. It's sort of general.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So I put that to the side. And then two of them, one of them is just insanity. And then I think the third one is the one I'm gonna go with.

Nick: All right, Bring it. Give it to me.

Leah: You actually know this story.

Nick: Oh, okay. Well, tell it again.

Leah: Because it was so bonkers that I had to make a phone call.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So I'm at a venue. I'm out of town. It's a brewery.

Nick: Mmm, yes. Oh, I do know this story. [laughs]

Leah: I am performing.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I have a line in one of my jokes where I say I don't drink. It's not a part of the joke, it's like a descriptor to get to where I'm going. And after the performance—it was a very fun show, everybody was delightful—a person comes up to me and said, "Heard you don't drink. Before you quit drinking—" so we're already making assumptions.

Nick: Mmm.

Leah: "Did you like hops?" I look him straight in the face. And I say, "Nope."

Nick: Okay.

Leah: There were no extra words. "Nope."

Nick: "Nope. Don't like it. Nope."

Leah: And then he says, "Well, there's a seltzer here that we make with hops. It's hop flavored. Would you like to try it?" And I say ...

Nick: "Answer's still ..."

Leah: No.

Nick: Yeah. [laughs]

Leah: And I mean, I did not mince. I said "No." I might have said "No, thank you."

Nick: Right. But the message was, "That's not a thing I want."

Leah: Yeah. "No." And then he went away and then came back with a glass of the hops seltzer, put it in front of my face and goes, "You should just try it."

Nick: Uh ...

Leah: And then a woman sitting next to me looked at me and goes, "This is one of the most unbelievable things I've ever seen." She goes, "You hard no-ed that two times."

Nick: Two times!

Leah: And I go, "Right?"

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I mean, it was I no-ed. And then I no-ed again. And then he brought it over, put it in front of my face and goes, "You have to try it."

Nick: "No, I don't want to."

Leah: I was blown away.

Nick: Yeah, what do we do with this? What is going on in his head?

Leah: What is going—I—thinking about it, I think ...

Nick: It's patronizing.

Leah: It's patronizing. It's also, like, you know when people tell you that, like, people start breaking boundaries by being like, "Have you—take a slice—bite of this pizza," and you go, "I don't want pizza." "Just take a bite."

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Like, they just wear you down with it.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: In my mind, it was like sheer insanity. "No. No." And then he puts it down in front of me.

Nick: "Here it is."

Leah: "Here it is." And the girl who I didn't know at the time was like, "That was wild!"

Nick: Wow!

Leah: What? What? That's insanity.

Nick: Yeah. Weird. Yeah, I don't love this.

Leah: I do not love it. I wanted to bring it up also because I just think it's happening where people are like, "No, just try it. No, just try it." And, like, they kind of—people kind of bully you, and then you don't want to feel like you're rude.

Nick: Yes. That's a great etiquette lesson that you are not being rude.

Leah: You're not being rude.

Nick: You have declined. And they have pushed over your boundary. You have set a boundary.

Leah: They've pushed past your boundary.

Nick: And you're not rude for trying to maintain that boundary.

Leah: Old Leah—and this is what I told Nick—wanted to dump it so it was empty, so there was no ill will. New Leah was like, "I'm leaving that full. I'm leaving it in the middle of the table, and I'm walking away."

Nick: Yeah. Future Leah probably would dump it on his face.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So we'll see when we get there. Yeah.

Leah: But I mean, just unbelievable.

Nick: Yeah. No, that's super rude. Well, speaking of unbelievable, I would like to vent. So I was at Broadway last night, and I was seeing Boop, the musical about Betty Boop.

Leah: Oh, wow!

Nick: Yeah. Who knew she has a backstory? Like, who knows anything about Betty Boop? Not me. But yeah, the whole backstory. Fun production. They do very cool things with, like, how they handled the world in black and white and color. So some very cute, like, production things. So I am about to enjoy the show. And the show begins. Great dance number. And wouldn't you know it? The people in the seat behind me arrive late. And because a lot of Broadway theaters are very nice, they do allow people to, like, get to their seats while the number's happening. They do not make them wait until, like, an applause break. And it's like, okay. But it's sort of like, we all were on time, so, like, could you not make it on time? Okay.

Nick: But not only did they arrive late, they were not slick about it. Like, if you arrive late, you need to be quiet as a mouse. You need to just tiptoe in. You need to not make a fuss. They were so loud, talking at full voice, finding their seats. It was just like, could you be more disruptive? But I was like, okay, they've sat down now, on with the show. But no. So two things were happening—and these are the people directly behind me. So, like, directly behind me. One was they were kicking my seat like they were toddlers on a long-haul flight. And so, like, that's happening, and it's sort of like, oh, that's not fun. Because it's a Broadway theater, and if you've ever been in a Broadway theater, the seats are very close. Like, they—we don't have a lot of leg room in New York City theaters. The second thing that was happening is they were talking.

Leah: Oh, no!

Nick: And talking. Not, like, whispering and not like, "Oh, look at that dress." Or, like, "Oh, that dance number is really cool." Like, no. Just, like, other topics. And it's sort of like, oh, we don't live in that world.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: And so I do a quarter turn where, like, you kind of turn your head, but you don't actually, like, turn it all the way around. It's just like a "Oh, is there something happening behind me?" You're, like, sending that signal. That did not work. Then we do the full turnaround where, like, I make eye contact, which is like, "Okay, I think we're done now." And then they keep talking, and then we do the full head turn with the look. And, like, what is this look, Leah?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: How do we describe this look?

Leah: I'm trying to get it in one word.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: [laughs] It's really the lip with the cheek coming out.

Nick: It's a pursed lip. Yeah.

Leah: It's sort of like, "Are we done? Are we doing this? Are you kidding?"

Nick: Yeah, it has a little of that flavor, but it's nice. It's like a little apologetic, like, "Oh, I'm so sorry to bother you with this look. But, like, is this happening right now?" That has a lot of different flavors. So we did that: Direct eye contact. And that did not help. And this is going on for now half an hour. This is not, like, quick succession. Like, I let it give a rest before, like, you know, I turned around again. And it's not just me. Like, other people in the row are also doing this.

Nick: And so then I did something that I have mentioned is an option to people on this show, but I've never personally done it until now. I tattled.

Leah: Whoo!

Nick: I looped in an usher. And so luckily, I was on the aisle, and I was pretty far back in the house because they were cheap seats. And so I turn around down the aisle, and I looked to see if there was an usher, and luckily there was an usher at the end of the aisle. And I gave the usher a look, which was like, "Hey, eye contact." And then I shifted my eyes to the row behind me. I was sort of like, "You, look at this row." And that's all the usher needed. Like, super professional. And she got it immediately. And so then I turned around, I went back to the show, and I could hear her walking up, and I could hear her in full voice, "Hey, guys, you need to keep it down. No talking. Other people are trying to enjoy the show."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And I was like, "Oh, thank you. Thank you so much." And so that actually did work for most of the rest of the first act. So then at intermission, I flagged down another usher that I saw. I was like, "Hey, great show. Would you do me a favor? Would you keep an eye on L4 and 6? They're having a great time. Love it. Love the enthusiasm, but they're talking a bunch, and maybe you just, like, keep an eye on that and, like, you know, jump in if you feel you need to. Thanks!" And, like, she totally got it because, like, this happens all the time.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: And so I had her just sort of monitor. I didn't love that I had to do that, but I felt like—I felt like it had to be done.

Leah: I mean, they wouldn't stop talking.

Nick: They just wouldn't stop talking. Yeah. And it's like, you're not at home.

Leah: A) you're late.

Nick: This is a shared experience.

Leah: And then now you're talking.

Nick: And now you're talking.

Leah: And not even about the show.

Nick: So it was maddening. I don't love that I had a tattle, but I did it in a very polite way. I was very polite. I feel like this was an etiquette-approved way to handle it. I tried to do it nicely. It was beyond my ability. I didn't want to make a scene, and so I just looped in somebody very subtly—I don't think I bothered anybody else with my eye contact with the usher—and had them handle it. And that's their job. And, like, that's the end of it. And I feel like I was within my right to, like, loop them in about act two. Like, I think it was okay to, like, tell an usher and be like, "Hey, keep an eye on these people."

Leah: Nick is not only reseating people in his own personal theater ...

Nick: [laughs] I do it live in the real world, too!

Leah: He's taking care of all of the theaters.

Nick: All the theaters. Yes. I'm your personal usher. Yes. Yeah, I did want to reseat them, though. If I could have resat them in this physical theater into the lobby, I absolutely would have.

Leah: [laughs] You're like, "I wish I could reseat you in real life."

Nick: Oh, if I had that power?

Leah: Talk about a superpower!

Nick: Oh, if I could just, like, pluck—oh, our letter writer who was at the dinner party where somebody took their seat, I would just use my power to be like, "Boop! You no longer sit there."

Leah: I mean, there it is.

Nick: There it is.

Leah: Nick's superpower.

Nick: Oh, how do we make that happen? Yeah. Oh, I have to look into the laws of physics.

Leah: As soon as I figure out how to teleport, I'm gonna work on that one for you.

Nick: Okay, thank you.

Leah: No problem!

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: Well, I learned that there's some really crazy ideas out there about how we're supposed to be eating potatoes. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] No knives. No knives on our baked potatoes. Sorry. Don't eat like a boob.

Leah: Also, apparently, if you want to, like, go commit some crimes and lose your fingerprints, I guess just work on opening— "How'd you lose your fingerprints? Are you a criminal?" "No, I open hot potatoes." "Okay."

Nick: "No, I eat potatoes correctly." [laughs] It's the perfect crime. And I learned that you don't, like, seltzer with hops.

Leah: Oh, I don't like it. I don't want to try it. I don't want it near me. I mean, they're like, "Do you want stinky grassgrass hop—what is—what are your hops? Bushes? Do you want bush water? No, I don't want your ..."

Nick: Sparkling bush water.

Leah: "Do you want your sparkling bush water?" "No, I don't want it. Also, if I don't drink, I probably don't want something drinking adjacent, you insane person."

Nick: [laughs] Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we are doing a live show in Los Angeles. And your homework is to tell everyone you know who may know someone in the greater Southern California area to come to our show.

Leah: Please. It's the biggest venue we've done.

Nick: Yes. So we want to fill all the seats. And also we just want to meet all of you, because we are needy and we need the validation.

Leah: [laughs] We are needy. Do we have to be so open about it? [laughs]

Nick: I mean, this is a safe space. So please tell everybody you know in Los Angeles to come see us, and we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: Well, we're going over 30 seconds, Nick.

Nick: Again? Oh, we're gonna take this out of your annual allotment.

Leah: [laughs] Okay. Well, we had a great response from one of our Patreon members. So it's a cordial of kindness to him for sharing, but I also wanted to share it with all of our listeners because it's regarding the question we got about turkey slices.

Nick: Ah, turkeylicious!

Leah: Turkeylicious! And I thought, how great. Like, we have so many amazing listeners, and everybody has so much knowledge that I think it's so great we get to share. So ready?

Nick: Ready.

Leah: So this is the note from our Patreon. "Former deli worker here. The key to keep the cost the same or pretty close when ordering a specific number of slices is to keep the thickness of the slice the same. Most slicers do this by numbers. Our slicers had numbers from 1 to 10—10 was almost an inch thick." That's a thick piece of meat right there.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: "So you would say, 'I would like 12 slices of turkey on a number three slice, please.' To be fair, there may be some variability in the size of the slice. Our turkey breasts were a little like footballs, and could give smaller, more circular slices if cut from top to bottom, and bigger, more oval slices if sliced from side to side. We also had multiple types of turkey breast, with some less expensive." I like this information. "We also had multiple types of turkey breast, with some less expensive—the ones with more fillers typically—or the ones closer to a natural turkey breast that cost more. Our seasoned deli meats ..."

Nick: This is so much information about turkey. [laughs]

Leah: This is so much information. I love it. It's the best.

Nick: How much more do we have here?

Leah: There's one more sentence. "Our seasoned deli meats, ie. smoked or peppered, also cost more than the non-season. So it's always good to double check that you get the type and flavor of turkey breast that you asked for. Hope this is helpful."

Nick: Wow! Yeah, I mean, I learned a lot about turkey just now.

Leah: It's so great. So now we know. So when our letter-writer orders, there's slices from 1 to 10, 10 being the thickest. Also, make sure you're getting the seasons you want.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And the less fillers there are, the more expensive it's gonna be.

Nick: Love it.

Leah: So thank you so much, John, for that great information. Really appreciate it.

Nick: Yeah. Thank you. That was great. So for me, I just want to say thank you to everybody on a recent flight I just had. It was the weirdest thing. So as everybody's boarding, passengers were coming down the aisle smiling and saying hello to other passengers. And other passengers were, like, saying hello back. And it was like the weirdest thing because it was like, very nice and it wasn't forced, and it was kind of lovely and it was kind of like a good morning, we're all boarding this flight. Hello. And I kind of loved it. It was like, oh, we're not just, like, being grumpy on a bus. It was like, oh, this is kind of like, oh, we're all acknowledging everybody's humanity right now. And I just loved it. And so I thought, like, oh, let's celebrate that. And like, let's acknowledge that that's a nice thing.

Leah: Where—where was this?

Nick: This was a transcontinental flight in the United States.

Leah: Wow, that's so lovely!

Nick: Weird. Yeah. I mean, totally bizarre. So that's why I felt it was worth highlighting because it is so unusual. [laughs]

Leah: Yeah, we should all take that out and believe it can happen and all do it on our next flights.

Nick: Yeah. Although, should we? And then you're gonna be the weird one.

Leah: I'm always the weird one, Nick. I'm happy to continue.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. All right. So yeah, smile to a stranger on your next flight and let me know how that goes. But this was very nice because everybody was doing it. Like, everybody was on board. And so, like, I did it, I smiled back. Hello.

Leah: Isn't there a commercial that goes "Smile, it's contagious?"

Nick: Look at me, I'm smiling back. So thank you, passengers.

Leah: Lovely!