Handling Chronic Complainers, Paying Bar Tabs, Choosing Garnishes, and More

Nick: Do you take photos of your sushi? Do you ruin people's vacations? Do you use the wrong garnish? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse-bouche.

Leah: Let's get in it!

Nick: So as you may recall, we talked about sushi some time ago. And so did you implement any of the things we talked about? How's your sushi life going?

Leah: I would like to say that as I ate sushi incorrectly ...

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: ... I knew that I was doing it wrong.

Nick: Okay. I mean, I'll take that as a first step.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Sure. Okay, so you knew you were breaking rules, but you did it anyway?

Leah: I'm still mixing and dunking.

Nick: Okay. You know what? I've done what I can. You can lead a horse to etiquette water, but, you know, that's all I can do.

Leah: You can't stop—and I looked around me to go, "I know. I know!"

Nick: Yeah. All right, fine. All right. Well, I've done what I can. Well for today, I want to talk about Sushi 2.0. I was just in Tokyo, and I was observing both Japanese people and non-Japanese people in the sushi restaurants, and some other things came to mind, which I thought I would pass it along.

Leah: Okay. I feel like I should take notes. [laughs]

Nick: I mean, it would be ideal.

Leah: I haven't passed the first level of exams.

Nick: Yeah. You could take notes or you could just listen to the podcast and have it absorb somehow. So the first thing I want to talk about is the word "Irasshaimase." And so this is something you're gonna hear as you're entering almost any restaurant or store or, like, retail establishment. And so what it means is just like, "Welcome. Come on in." So "Irasshaimase." And other people might say it to other staff people. Like, they'll hear one person say it, and so they'll just say it too. And there's no response required here. You don't have to say anything in return. You can smile and nod if you've caught someone's eye, but actually, a lot of times people aren't even looking at you when they say this. They're just, like, saying it to the air because they heard someone come in.

Nick: So now we're in a fancy Tokyo sushi bar. And so some additional things to mention beyond what we've already talked about, I think no photos. I think this one we gotta just, like, really underline, highlight, italic, bold.

Leah: Hmm.

Nick: Let's just not. Let's just not take photos. Definitely do not take photos of the sushi chef. Like, don't do that without permission. Like, please don't do that. Like, you shouldn't do that anywhere but, like, definitely not in, like, a Tokyo fancy sushi bar, please. And some sushi restaurants actually just have a rule that you're definitely not allowed and they actually tell you this, but I think it is just assumed that just don't take pictures.

Leah: That's very good to know because I can see people not knowing that.

Nick: Yes. And some of the sushi is beautiful and you're like, "Oh, I must take a photo." But I think one of the reasons why they don't want you doing that is like, A) it's distracting for everybody. But B) the idea is that once the sushi hits the little wood plank thing, they want you to eat it. Like, the clock has started and, like, sushi doesn't get better the longer you wait.

Leah: Definitely not.

Nick: And so—yeah, right? I mean, some sushi chefs even say, like, "Oh, the taste at the counter is different than the taste at a table because of the distance between the sushi chef and your mouth."

Leah: Oh, wow!

Nick: So, like, there's definitely a feeling, like, oh, time is of the essence. So if you happen to take photos, you're actually adding to that time and you're actually detracting from the taste of the sushi. This is sort of one of the reasons why you shouldn't do it. But I think the bigger one is just like, it's really distracting.

Leah: I'm actually not a photo-of-food person.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: But I feel like if I was, I would definitely be doing that. So it's very good to know.

Nick: And then let's talk about our volume level. And I think we just want to make sure that our volume level is appropriate for what is happening in the room. There are definitely sushi bars, sushi restaurants that are just like loud, boisterous, rambunctious, like, fun parties. And there are those that are like whispered rarified spaces. And so just, like, know which one you're in, and just don't be the loudest person in that space. So just, like, match what everybody else is doing.

Leah: I love this one, and I really think we should take this across the board to everywhere.

Nick: And then definitely this is a very 2.0 type of sushi thing, but you should be mindful of your watch and your jewelry. There are definitely very precious counters that might get scratched, and some restaurants do want you to take off your jewelry or your watch. So just know that that is something you might be asked to do. That's very rare.

Leah: Oh, wow.

Nick: I've never personally been anywhere so fancy with such a precious bar where, like, oh, I must remove anything scratchy, but just know that that actually is something that does come up.

Leah: Hmm.

Nick: Other thing just to mention: cologne and perfume. This is actually a major thing, too. Like, definitely just don't wear it because sushi is such a 360-degree experience of all the senses, and it is very distracting if you're wearing a scent and other diners really—that really will take away from their experience. And some sushi restaurants also just have that as a posted rule, like you're not allowed to do it. But as a courtesy, even if they don't have that posted rule, like, just don't wear any scents when you're going out for sushi at a fancy sushi bar in Tokyo.

Leah: Very good to know.

Nick: And then let's talk about what to drink with sushi. So there is this feeling that traditionally you do not drink saké with sushi, like, this is not a pairing that happens. And you hear it explained a couple of different ways. One is that, like, oh, rice just doesn't go with alcohol. Like, anything rice based is just, like, not paired with alcohol at all. You do hear people say like, oh, because saké is made from rice and rice is made from rice, that's just too much rice and so we don't do that. Now okay, that is perhaps traditional because originally sushi was fast food. Like, you actually just ate it on the street. So you just, like, grabbed a bite of something, washed it down with some tea and like, you're on your way. It wasn't like something we linger, we're not having long conversations, we're not enjoying drinks with friends. Like sushi, fast food. So there is a sense, like, oh, traditionally it's just about tea. Now do Japanese people drink saké with sushi? Yeah. Yeah, they do. So, like, are they all breaking tradition, or has somehow the tradition evolved? Like, we can debate this, but you do hear the idea of, like, oh, saké is never drunk with sushi. That's where this comes from. So, you know, I'm just mentioning it here.

Nick: And the next thing on my list is actually the word "sushi" itself. So very eagle-eyed listeners in our last episode caught that I said "zushi" a few times—Z-U-S-H-I—rather than sushi. And you'll actually see zushi on menus sometimes with a Z or a Z for our international listeners. And so what this is, is actually a quirk of the Japanese language, where when the S sound is with another word sometimes, the S sound will convert into a Z sound. So when we're talking about specific types of sushi like nigiri sushi, when you say this as one word—nigirizushi—that S becomes a Z because it's a little easier to say, I guess. So that's just like some Japanese language convention. And so that's why sushi is sometimes zushi. It's the same thing. It's just a grammatical thing. So that's what that is.

Nick: And lastly, let's talk about getting the check. And so you can ask for the check by asking for it in Japanese or English, or you can use the international symbol for like, "Oh, I need the check," which is like the scribble into the air because everybody gets what that is. But if you want to be real Japanese about it, what you do is you take your index fingers and you cross them in a little X sort of in front of you, like chest height. Just like a nice little X. And what that means is, "I'm done, let's close the check." And so it's polite and it's subtle, and you just catch someone's eye and do a little X with your little index fingers and like, we're good.

Leah: I love this!

Nick: And it's not to be confused with another Japanese gesture, which is an X with your arms in front of you. And there's actually an emoji in all of our phones of somebody with, like, their arms crossed in an X. That means "No," or, like, "This is not allowed." So, like, if you're walking somewhere and a guard, like, does a big X with their arms, that means, like, "Oh, don't enter here." So that's a different symbol. But just two fingers crossed with your index fingers in front of you, that just means, like, "Oh, I need the check, please."

Nick: Now sidebar: in Kawaii culture, which is like when people are all cute and cutesy, you do sometimes see, like, anime characters or people do, like, a little X in front of them to mean "No," because, like, it's littler and, like, cuter to do that. So sometimes you do see that in, like, manga, but that actually also means no, but they're just, like, being cute about it. But normally it just means, like, "Check please."

Leah: Very interesting!

Nick: Right? So that's some sushi 2.0. Some things to add to the list that you can ignore, but at least you'll know about.

Leah: I feel like I'm just not going to change dipping the sushi, but I could work these in.

Nick: Yeah, I feel like you could incorporate some of these in. And next time maybe we'll talk about conveyor belt sushi because, like, there's actually some specific etiquette there. So put a pin in that. Get excited for that in the future.

Leah: I'm gonna try that out.

Nick: Okay. All right.

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: Thank you!

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: I don't even know what this is. This is, like, deep and ...

Nick: Frustrating? Exhausting?

Leah: [laughs] Yeah. Deep and, like, "Ugh!"

Nick: So today we want to talk about people who are chronic complainers.

Leah: And a few caveats up top.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Obviously, we're not talking about people who are going through something.

Nick: No.

Leah: Not even talking about, like, a vent with a friend.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Most of my friendships are like 50 percent complaining, 50 percent pumping each other up.

Nick: Yeah. That feels like an appropriate friendship ratio.

Leah: So we're not saying no complaining.

Nick: And it's both ways, right?

Leah: It's both ways.

Nick: Yeah, it's mutual.

Leah: Everybody's doing it.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: It's just that people do notice when you have a relationship where all it is is the downside.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And you're trying to pump up. "Let's get out there!" And that's what they like about you, but then you're just getting parade raining.

Nick: Yeah. Like, "Oh, what's in it for me? I know you're having a great time, but yeah, like, what about me?" Yeah, that's a really important point. Yeah. That when the ratio is off, then this is not good.

Leah: It's about the ratio. Everybody complains.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: We all complain.

Nick: Oh, yes. [laughs]

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Just wait until our next segment. Yeah. [laughs] So there is a time and place to complain and vent, and that's fine. But I think there are people in the world, which we all know, where that's just like the default setting. They just love to be aggrieved. Grievance is just like where they live and are comfortable, and they want you to live in that world with them. And I don't always really want to live in that world.

Leah: Also, let me say that I have people that I know that are—have, like, a chronic illness, or they're in pain a lot, or they're going through stuff. That is in no way what we're talking about. We're talking about people who just turn everything negative in a regular conversation.

Nick: Right. And I think we all know the difference. Like, we all know this person that we're actually talking about, which is a specific type of person.

Leah: I mean, I know people that you could text them something positive about your life, and they'll come back with letting you know how it's not gonna work out.

Nick: [laughs] Right.

Leah: And you're like, "Can—I mean, I accept your negative personality. Can you at least let me try to be pumped up for 10 seconds?"

Nick: Right. So it's that person. That's what we're talking about. So that said, I think the etiquette question is: what do we do about it as innocent bystanders? Because I think most of our audience are not the people complaining. They're the people who are stuck next to somebody at a dinner party, or stuck in some conversation where, like, someone is just complaining, the coworker who's just, like, always complaining.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: So I think for me, the usual way I handle it, like, if I'm at a dinner party and someone's doing this and it's sort of more of an acquaintance thing, I just sort of want to acknowledge it and, like, let's have some empathy. Like, "Oh, that must be really tough." Or, like, "I'm really sorry that that happened." But then I don't want to dwell, and I don't want to get engaged too heavily in that. And so we want to then pivot to something else.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Or if this is, like, a friend or a relationship that you have that is, like, ongoing, you might want to just address it if possible, like head on, polite and direct.

Leah: Yeah, I—I usually address it because I definitely have people in my life where I say, "I'm working really hard on being positive."

Nick: Hmm.

Leah: I sort of make it about my behavior. I'm working very hard on being grateful. Because I also feel like this behavior is often sort of—it comes of as just no gratitude.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So I'll say, "Oh, I really try hard to be grateful." And because I'm not going to—I'm not gonna be like, "You need to change your behavior. I'm monitoring your behavior." At the end of the day, that's up to you. But if I've told you this multiple times, like, I need to try to be positive, and you don't in any way stop constantly making everything negative, I'm gonna have to pull back.

Nick: Yeah. And I think actually pulling back is kind of sometimes the best move.

Leah: And there's this whole sort of dialog out there about toxic positivity. And if—you know, if you're sharing you're going through something, and then a person's like, "Well, at least you—" or, "I bet something better will happen," that that's not a good way to handle—but I think that that's different when somebody's going through something, like we said in the beginning, than if every day you're complaining and every day it's about something that's bad. A person may need to try to be positive to protect themselves because they just don't want to go into that place.

Nick: Yeah. And I think if you need to do that, then that's fine. That's why we have the theater metaphor in the first place. Like, you can reseat people.

Leah: I think a lot of people don't realize how much they complain.

Nick: Yes. Yes. I think people are probably not aware.

Leah: [laughs] Imagine if you just said, "I'm sorry that you don't like anything."

Nick: [laughs] Now I'm like, oh, we have a whole segment about complaining, though. Like, are we allowed to have this segment still? Is it just about repenting? No more venting?

Leah: No. Vents are fun. Vents are fun. We want our friends to vent. You know what I mean? It's literally when you're like, "I love this hat," and they're like, "You'd look better in something else." Or, "I saw that you had a great time at that show." "Yeah, but, you know, I didn't like the—" you know, it's just like the constant, constant.

Nick: Right. Yeah. Is there nothing good? Yeah. Is anything good enough?

Leah: Is there nothing good?

Nick: Yeah. So those are some thoughts about constant complainers.

Leah: I think what we're coming to is there is a time and place to complain, vent if you're going through something. But if you just chronically want to be upset by everything, or nothing's good enough or raining on everybody's parade, I think probably great to find somebody else who's exactly like you.

Nick: Right. That's the key. You're welcome to complain, Like, have at it. Do whatever you need to do. It's just, are you doing this to people who do not want this? And I guess that's why it becomes an etiquette thing.

Leah: That is exactly what it is.

Nick: Is the audience receptive? Did they buy tickets to that show? If they did, that's great. But ...

Leah: That's exactly what it is. You're, like, just standing there and all of a sudden somebody just shows up and, like, rains down upon you and you're like, "Oh, I didn't—I didn't come to this party."

Nick: So I think that's the trick is like, "Oh, did they buy tickets?" Yeah. "Are they a willing audience member?" And if they're not, well then, like, let's not. And if you got stuck in an audience, then you need to do your best, and then if you need to check out, then I think that's also fine.

Leah: I also want to say that I am somehow the recipient, I'm gonna say, of a lot of strangers telling me their deepest life problems.

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: I am in no way complaining about this. I think it's a very interesting thing that I get to know these things about people. So keep doing that.

Nick: Okay, so there you have it. Deepest, darkest secrets? Leah Bonnema. That's it.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "Recently, a friend I've reconnected with invited me super last minute to her birthday party at a bar. I arrived a little later and left a little earlier because I already had plans with my boyfriend, but I decided to show up because the invite meant so much to me. I splurged a little and got her a lovely butterscotch bark and chocolate truffle cookie artisanal gift thingy, which I mean, who wouldn't love? At the get-together, I had two gin and tonics and did not indulge in any of the food because bar food is usually kind of gross and greasy in my opinion. By the end of the night, she sent a mass text to everyone that attended, asking everyone to split the cost for her birthday, even though she and her two sisters attended and drank a lot and they ate a lot. I'm fine with paying for myself and I insisted I did so before leaving, even requesting the waiter to bring me the check. But the birthday friend insisted, and borderline forced me to, quote, 'Let her handle it.' Now the money she's requesting is four times the amount I originally was going to pay. I definitely have the means to pay it, but for me it's the principle. How can I pay only my share and find the right words to tell her without looking bad?"

Leah: I wrote under this, "Nick."

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: Because ...

Nick: Really? You have no thoughts on this?

Leah: I feel like—well, what I don't have thoughts on is how you can tell her—this is not the kind of person who, whatever you tell her isn't going to get upset. She's not gonna get why what she's doing is ...

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's true.

Leah: Because I feel like the path is to be like, "Oh, hey. Remember I tried to pay you when I left, and then you said, 'No, I have it.'"

Nick: Right.

Leah: It's just not gonna work out. She's not gonna get it.

Nick: Yeah. I just wrote down, "This is problematic."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So I—this is actually very common. I think what just happened to you in this bar? Very common. And I guess it comes down to what path you want to take. And I think if this happened to me, I would have to say to myself, "Okay, do I want to continue this friendship or do I not?" Because if I don't, if this is like a character flaw and it's like, "Oh, I don't care for this. This is not the type of person I want to be friends with. I don't want to invest in this person and this relationship any further," I would just pay it and that would be it, and that will be the end of it. Or part of me feels like, "Oh, this is actually a relationship I want. I want to set some boundaries. I want to, like, clarify. I don't want to have resentment moving forward in this relationship," then the question is, like, "Okay, what is the response?" And then that's what we'd have to workshop here. But I think the first choice, though, is do we care enough to have this relationship moving forward?

Leah: I do feel like this happens a lot. A) I agree with that breakdown.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: B) I do feel like this happens a lot, and I don't—also when people are budgeting, which is—she said she's not dealing with right now but, like, a lot of people are budgeting and they get nervous about going out because you're like, "Am I gonna have to pay?" And then there are people who—like, if you don't eat meat and you're going out with people and they order, like, the steak.

Nick: Or you don't drink.

Leah: Or you don't drink and then—yeah, and people have, like, eight martinis and they're like, "Let's split the bill." And you're like, "I just had a seltzer water." You know, I just ...

Nick: Right.

Leah: So just the idea of, like, being very aware of what's happening when you say, "Let's split the bill." And then also obviously we've discussed, if you're having a party ...

Nick: Yeah. "Come to this bar. I've selected the guest list and the venue and everything else about this event, and now I want you to pay for it." Okay.

Leah: And myself and my family ...

Nick: [laughs] Right.

Leah: ... ordered one of everything.

Nick: So I was then thinking, okay, what is a response? And so here's some ideas. I don't know which one is good, if any. Let's talk about it.

Leah: I'm excited.

Nick: One idea would be to say—because I guess we just got, like, a Venmo payment request, which is like, "Oh, please give me $90," or whatever it was. And so one response could be like, "Oh, golly. Do let me know if that number is right for me. I just had two gin and tonics." So maybe that would be a response, which is like, "Oh, I'm not saying I'm not gonna pay this, but let me just clarify if that's the correct dollar amount for me specifically." So I thought that could be interesting. How do we feel about that?

Leah: I particularly like the, "Oh, golly," at the beginning.

Nick: [laughs] Sure.

Leah: And I think I like—I like that. That feels a little nice.

Nick: Right.

Leah: A little nice for me.

Nick: Right. Another idea I had was, like, to ignore her payment request and just send her what you think you owe, plus a little cushion. So, like, not to the penny. Like, let's round up a little bit, but like, "Oh, instead of $90, like, here's $50. And, like, thank you so much for a fun time." So, like, to ignore the request altogether and then put it on her to be like, "Oh, you still owe me money." Although this person would totally do that. Yeah.

Leah: They would absolutely do that. Also ...

Nick: [laughs] They would absolutely do that.

Leah: Our letter writer tried to give her money at the beginning before she left, and they were like, "Don't take—no, I'll take care of it."

Nick: "No, don't worry. I'm going to extort you later."

Leah: I almost feel like you could say, "Hey, remember I tried to give you money and you said I was taking care of it?"

Nick: Yes. Although when I hear "I'm taking care of it," I hear, "Oh, I'm paying for it."

Leah: That's what that means. That's what that means. They're paying for it.

Nick: Yes. Not, "Oh, I'm going to do the calculations later on." Right.

Leah: That's not what that means at all. That means they're paying for it.

Nick: Yeah. Another thing I had was, "Oh, so fun seeing you. Sorry I couldn't stay long. Here's the cash for the two drinks I ordered," and then payment request.

Leah: Oh, I also like that one.

Nick: Yeah, because then it's sort of like, "Here's the money specifically for the things that I ordered that I owe you for." And then it would be on her to be like, "Oh, but I need you to give me money for things you didn't order," which is like, oh, that'd be a bold move.

Leah: I like that one. "Sorry I couldn't stay long. Here's the money for the two drinks I ordered."

Nick: Right. I kind of like that because it's polite and direct, and it puts it on the person to be like, "Oh, but I still want more money from you even though you didn't order it." And I want you to say that to my face, which is like, "I want you to actually overpay."

Leah: I recently had a bit of a thing like this.

Nick: Oh?

Leah: Where I responded and I was like, "Hey, was this for the people who blank, blank, blank?" Because there was a whole group of us. And then a second person chimed in and was like, "No, that would be inappropriate."

Nick: Oh, you had backup?

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Yeah, that's helpful if you can have someone else chime in. Here, I don't think we have that option unless this was a group text, in which case if you know anybody else who was there who you could, like, separately text me, like, "I'm gonna send this thing. So when I do that, then you text and say it's like, 'Oh, I agree.'" Then you can have a little, like, behind the scenes dealing.

Leah: And I was being earnest about it. Like, I didn't genuinely understand what was happening.

Nick: Well, and people make mistakes with the money. Like, it is also possible, we should reserve the possibility that our host actually just accidentally sent this number to our letter-writer. I think we live in a world that this may have happened. I mean, I actually don't think we live in that world, but I think we want to at least hope we might live in that world.

Leah: Yeah, maybe they, like, had a lot to drink and they forgot that they told people that they were gonna take care of the bill.

Nick: Or they didn't realize that you only had two drinks and didn't have any of the food and just thought, "Oh, this is fair." So I guess, you know, one of the things I'm trying to work on—this is something I'm trying to work on—is not assuming people are gonna be unreasonable. Because my default setting for a lot of people in a lot of interactions is, like, I'm assuming this interaction is going to be somebody being unreasonable. And I'm trying to assume the opposite: that everybody's default setting is that I'm a reasonable human being, and so my response will be reasonable. And I want to wait until they prove otherwise. So maybe it's a whole new show. We're just gonna assume everybody's reasonable in the world. So perhaps this is just a mistake.

Leah: I like the "Oh, golly," and I like the "Sorry, I couldn't stay long." I think that "Sorry, I couldn't stay long" is my favorite. "Here's for my two drinks."

Nick: There we are. Okay. Letter-writer, if you try any of these things, let us know. So our next question is quote, "We are currently at a resort in Jamaica. After booking our vacation, we were asked by a couple that my husband met at the resort last year to change our dates so we could be there at the same time as them. The men play pool volleyball together. We kindly did so, and we let them know. Upon arriving at the resort, we went over to say hello and the wife shunned us and has done so for the last three days. It's a very uncomfortable situation, as the men are playing pool volleyball together all day. How should I address this situation? We have five more days to go."

Leah: This person is way calmer than I would be.

Nick: [laughs] The only thing I wrote down was, "This sounds fun."

Leah: [laughs] Did you write them back?

Nick: I did offer some thoughts, yes. But first I'm getting, like, serious, like, White Lotus vibes. Season two. Are you getting, like, Aubrey Plaza from this?

Leah: I mean, it's hard not to because ...

Nick: And then it got the theme song stuck in my head, and I've been, like, humming it to myself.

Leah: But I will say that the group volleyball sort of un—it's a little not White Lotus.

Nick: Yeah. Okay. Well, maybe season three, we don't know.

Leah: But it is the couple thing that gives me the White Lotus.

Nick: Yes. Two couples maybe not getting along. Sure, I guess that's the White Lotus and a lot of other TV shows. But I just got the idea of, like, "Oh, we're at a resort. Things aren't all that they seem."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: That's—that's what I got.

Leah: I would for sure go over to this person and be like, "Hey, I'm a little confused. I thought you wanted us to be here at the same time. We'd love to discuss what's happening right now. I feel an uncomfortability."

Nick: Okay. I mean, I think that's great advice. I'm a little surprised that it's coming from you. You're gonna be so bold as to just, like, walk right up to somebody?

Leah: In a situation like this? Absolutely I would, because I don't understand what's happening.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And if there's something that needs to be fixed, it needs to be fixed. I just get uncomfortable, like, returning things to CVS and, like, sitting at things, but like, this is too much. I switched my vacation.

Nick: Right.

Leah: Why are you not talking to me?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, my first thought is we don't even really know this person. Like, we don't even know her. We met her once a year ago at this resort. Like, we don't know her. And so I don't think we did anything, did we?

Leah: We for sure did not do anything.

Nick: I mean, I don't know what it would be, but the only thing I could think of is that she didn't want us there, and she's mad that her husband made these arrangements without her. And then she's just, like, taking it out on you. Or she doesn't want to be there for some other reason. Yeah, I guess your advice is correct. We need to just ask her straight up and be like, "Hey. I've noticed you've been a little distant. Is there something we can talk about?"

Leah: Yeah. Well, this says "We were asked by a couple to change."

Nick: Yeah, I think just addressing it head on.

Leah: I'm too old to go around pretending that I don't notice that somebody who invited me to spend the week with them is ignoring me.

Nick: Right. Yeah. I mean, because that is an option. You could just, like, pretend it's not happening and be like, "Hey, Lisa, I'm gonna go into town to do some shopping. Do you want to join?" And then she doesn't acknowledge and be like, "Okay. Well, see you at dinner." You know? You could do it that way.

Leah: I think the only way I could deal with it is if I took my husband and I was like, "We're switching resorts because I can't live in this world." Do you know what I mean?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: If I'm going to ignore, I'm going all in. That's what I'm saying.

Nick: Yeah, that's fair.

Leah: So I'm not gonna ignore. I'm gonna walk over and be like, "What's going on?"

Nick: And that's what I told them. I was like, "I think we have five more days, and so let's just address it." Because addressing it might feel awkward, but it's not gonna make it worse. What, is she gonna shun you more? I feel like shunning has sort of a ceiling, so I feel like can't go above that ceiling.

Leah: Also, sometimes I think people think they can just act that way and nobody's gonna ask them.

Nick: Yeah, and call them out. Which is like, are you a child?

Leah: It's so childish!

Nick: Yeah, it is definitely immature. Yeah, it is. And if there is something going on, then let's address it. Or if it doesn't have anything to do with you, okay, then let's talk about it. And at least they'll be aware then that whatever is affecting them in some other arena is affecting your vacation as well. And hopefully maybe they'll make an effort to try and change a little bit.

Leah: But it seems that they're being purposefully ...

Nick: It does.

Leah: This is me if something's going on in my life and I don't feel like hanging. "I know we asked you to come here, and I just am dealing with this thing. And so I sort of need alone. I'm so sorry." "Oh, I totally get it."

Nick: Right. That would be the appropriate adult approach. That's true.

Leah: "Let me know if you need anything."

Nick: Now would we loop in husband to husband? Because, like, they're having a great time doing volleyball. So ...

Leah: I would loop in my husband.

Nick: And we'd be like, "Have we noticed what Lisa's doing?" And would we ask our husband to loop in their husband and be like, "Hey, I noticed Lisa's a little distant." Would we want to do it that way, or would we want to just go right to Lisa and be like, "What's up?"

Leah: I would go right to Lisa first.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then after I walk away with whatever information that is, then I would see what my next step was.

Nick: Yeah. And what do you think the answer is? What do we think is going on?

Leah: I don't know. I hope we find out. I would be—and maybe this is just me, I would be a little irritated if Lisa has decided she's not going to talk to me, but then I have nobody to hang out with because my husband is playing volleyball. Can I—do I want to—maybe I want to play volleyball.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: But if I don't like volleyball, and then he's playing volleyball ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I've already gone on all the excursions, I might be like, "I don't think you should play volleyball with them. We should go do something."

Nick: Yeah, that actually sounds really reasonable.

Leah: I don't know if that's reasonable or not reasonable, but I would definitely be like, "Okay, we're cutting the whole family off as a group."

Nick: Well ...

Leah: I'm Italian, and this is how we roll.

Nick: Well, it feels reasonable because, like, oh, one half of the couple is going out of their way to make my vacation unpleasant, so one way we can solve that is to make the other half of that couple's vacation unpleasant by cutting their volleyball buddy off.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And so I feel like that is a reasonable answer. It's like, I don't know why I should suffer. This is your problem, so we're gonna make it all your problem and we're going to salvage the rest of our vacation and have a good time on our end.

Leah: Yeah, that's what I feel.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: I don't know if it's the highest road, but I feel like it's the road that I think is fair.

Nick: Yes. I mean, I think I'll take this road. I feel comfortable with this road.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Yeah. And in Jamaica, I think they drive on the other side, right? So that's a fun detail.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. So this road might not be the highest, but at least we're driving on the left. I don't know why that's relevant.

Leah: [laughs] I like—I like where you're going. I like where you're going.

Nick: Yeah, I feel like it's a metaphor for something. I'm just not sure what. So ...

Leah: I feel like it's in there. I'm feeling it.

Nick: So letter-writer, let us know how this goes. I want to hear how the rest of the vacation went. I have not heard back yet, so presumably we'll get some aftermath. And you out there, do you have questions for us? Oh, yes, you do! Send them to us. You can send them to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call, Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux-pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I think I'm repenting.

Nick: Oh? But we're not sure?

Leah: But it's like one of those things where you're like, I literally don't know what happened.

Nick: [laughs] Oh, all right. Well, let's hear it.

Leah: So Dustin and I are looking for a new church.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And so we're at a church service. After the service, they invite everybody to the back for coffee hour. One of my favorites.

Nick: Love a good coffee hour. Mm-hmm.

Leah: I love a coffee hour. I'm familiar with this situation. California coffee hour, it's outside.

Nick: Oh, sure. Patio living.

Leah: I go out there, I'm trying to make small talk, not working, whatever. But, you know, I'm trying to be—and then there's another room with people in it with other coffee hour stuff.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So we're just checking out the church itself, looking at it. We're like, "Let's go look at this room." The man at the door invites us in.

Nick: Okay. "Come on in!"

Leah: "Come in!"

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: And it was a more extensive coffee hour.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: There was, like, I would say, a meal. It was like a meal.

Nick: Oh, beyond a bundt cake.

Leah: Beyond a bundt cake. And then he was saying what the foods were. "Try it! Try it!"

Nick: All right.

Leah: And then I did clock that one lady was giving me an evil eye. I did clock it.

Nick: In a "Who are you?" type of way?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Ah.

Leah: So then we stand there, and then everybody's sort of at a table together. And I didn't want to interrupt. So we stand there talking to the guy who invited us in, and then we go back outside to stand.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then this man who had earlier come and talk to us extensively about parking, like, he did—he wasn't a part of the church. He obviously went a lot, but he just wanted to talk about parking rules in this area. Fine.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I tried to be an active participant.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Comes back to let us know that that was only for people who are somehow associated with the church.

Nick: Oh, that was a VIP coffee hour?

Leah: That was like the VIP, they're in the choir, they're—does the music, they do the tech. He's not one of those people.

Nick: But it was just a "Just so you know."

Leah: "Just so you know, you are trespassers and thieves and everybody hates you." That was the vibe I got from that.

Nick: Oh, that's fun.

Leah: At which point I'm mortified, because we were invited in.

Nick: Yeah. What were you supposed to do? Yeah. And how were you supposed to know any of this?

Leah: How was I supposed to know?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So then I just obsess about it for—you know, I'm still obsessing about it.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So what is this?

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: So I don't know if it's a vent or it's a repent, because I may have done something egregious. I was totally confused by the man at the door, but then I don't know why that guy, the parking guy—he doesn't do the parking, he just likes talking about parking, which I'm happy to get on board. He—he came over. Why he had to do that?

Nick: This is a vent because you didn't do anything wrong. You were invited into a room, and you were like, "Please eat this food." And you had some. And you were like, "Thank you very much." And so, like, what—what were you supposed to do here? Like, you were a gracious guest. You were invited somewhere. The vent is that these people are, like, making you feel bad about it. And so that's not nice.

Leah: Wasn't nice!

Nick: No.

Leah: But then I was like, "Maybe I did do that." And ...

Nick: Yes, you did eat food you should not have. But how were you supposed to know this? You were invited to do so. So, like, what are you supposed to do with this?

Leah: But then I'm so mortified that I ate food that I shouldn't have, but I ...

Nick: Well then, you shouldn't have regurgitated it and put it back.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I mean, what are your options?

Leah: That really would have closed the—that really would have been like, "Oh, she's—she's trying to fix it."

Nick: Yeah. I don't know. I mean yeah, I think—well, I think you've learned something about this particular church and whether or not it's a good fit for you.

Leah: I don't even think it has to do with—I think it has to do with this one particular man. You know, you don't know. You're like, do they have a group meeting afterwards where they were like, "Did you see that couple? They just walk anywhere!"

Nick: Yeah, they ate all the kugel.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. I mean, what are we gonna do with this?

Leah: I don't know what we're gonna do with this. I think I just want to go back and make an announcement. Are we letting it go?

Nick: We're letting it go, yes. This has already taken up too much bandwidth, so, like, let's just, like, put it in a little box and we're gonna just, like, put it on the shelf.

Leah: I would like to say ironically, these are the things that I obsess about, where I'm happy to walk up to a lady at the pool and be like, "What's going on right here?"

Nick: Amazing contradictions. So for me, I also am not sure if this is a vent or a repent. I think it's actually not even an etiquette thing. I don't know what this is. This is a complaint, and until we have a show that is just about things that Nick doesn't like in the world that are not etiquette related, this is where this is going. And you break the rules all the time. So, like, it's my turn. So ...

Leah: I love how you put that on me. I love how you put that on me.

Nick: [laughs] So for me, I want to talk about garnishes. And have we talked about my philosophy on garnishes?

Leah: No, we haven't.

Nick: Did you know I had a philosophy on garnishes? Of course I do.

Leah: would have guessed if you were like, "Do you think I have?" I would say yes.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Do I know what it is? No.

Nick: So we're talking about garnishes on, like, food and drink. And so these are things that get added to a dish that are not the dish. So, like, you know, the thing that's like the little bonus, the sprinkle, it's the toppings, it's the whatever doodle. And so that's what we're talking about. And so I was just at this restaurant in the Village having dinner, and I ordered the salmon. And so, Leah, what is the garnish, do you think I received on my salmon plate?

Leah: I would assume it was a lemon.

Nick: Yeah. Lemon. Great garnish. Love that. Yeah. No, what I got was a purple orchid.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: It's like, what? And this purple orchid is actually very common. Actually, once you start observing garnishes in the wild, you will see this purple flower pop up way more often than it should. Like, it is very common, shockingly common. And so I got a purple flower on my plate. And here's my feeling: garnishes should be functional. Not just edible, they should be functional. And if they're not functional, they need to add a significant level of whimsy to whatever it is.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So, like if we're having a banana daiquiri and you put plastic monkeys on the glass, great. Nonfunctional but whimsy—allowed. But, like, cocoa powder? No one wants to eat raw cocoa powder. Not a good garnish, not functional. So I do want there to be some reason for being. And the thing needs to also be delicious in and of itself, and it needs to be delicious when combined with the thing it's on. So, like, you need to be able to take a bite of, like, the salmon and a bite of the garnish together, and that together should also taste good. There should be some relationship there.

Nick: And I also like when the garnish has a relationship with what's in the dish. So, like, if there's gonna be rosemary chicken then, like, okay, if you put a rosemary bush on the plate, like, that makes sense. But if there's no rosemary in this dish, like, don't put a twig of rosemary on the plate. Similarly, like, is this ice cream mint ice cream? No. Why is there a mint leaf on it? Why—why is that? Why is that happening? Like, if you give me a piece of cake and there's a raspberry, I'm gonna assume there's, like, a layer of raspberry in this thing. Like, why is there just like a raspberry on it? So I do want there to be some relationship, or there needs to be some philosophical reason, there needs to be some intellectual reason for this. So, like, it's a light cookie with something dense, or it's like something acidic with something fatty. Like, there needs to be some things thought out, like, some reason for being, but just, like, to slap something on a plate just to do it like a purple flower? No. No. Do not care for that. No, please don't.

Leah: I love this. I feel like it should be a chapter somewhere. At least an article. But I would say chapter. Garnish theory.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, do you have strong feelings about garnishes?

Leah: Well, now I feel like I do. I mean, I've definitely thought—I've definitely gotten a plate and been like, "I don't know why this is here."

Nick: Yeah, why does this exist? Right.

Leah: But I haven't broken it down to be like, it either needs to be whimsical or functional.

Nick: Yes. And it needs to enhance. We gotta have some additive quality. I don't want just, like, parsley sprinkles just for the sake of putting something green on the plate.

Leah: I think this is a very fair breakdown.

Nick: And is this etiquette? I mean, I guess it's not mindful of my feelings as a diner.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I guess that's what it comes down to.

Leah: You could bring it up. "Can I talk to somebody about the garnishes on this? Because ..."

Nick: "Yeah, I have a complaint."

Leah: "I'm at a loss."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Or "Help me understand."

Nick: Yes. "Walk me through the process that led us to this today." Yes. "Help me understand how this shmear of raspberry coulis on this otherwise non-raspberry dish showed up. How did this happen? I don't know. I'd love to learn. Yeah." [laughs] So garnishes, let's all be more mindful with our garnishes, everybody.

Leah: And can I add something really quickly?

Nick: Please.

Leah: Non garnish-related.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Back to the coffee hour.

Leah: Okay.

Leah: And you saying a lot of—I don't think inconsistencies was the word, but feeling two things at the same time. I think what it is, is that I'm desperate for closure, to figure things out, to know what happened. Can I fix it? So if I'm in a situation where, like, what's going on, and I can walk over and be like, "What's happening right now?" You know what I mean?

Nick: Hmm.

Leah: But where I lose my mind is where there's no opportunity for me to fix it, no opportunity for me to know what happened.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And then it's just out there and it just exists.

Nick: It's just an open-ended thing, yeah.

Leah: It's just an open ended thing that I can't fix.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I can't explain.

Nick: Well, here's the dirty thing about etiquette: it is actually inherently about not getting closure, sometimes.

Leah: I can't take it.

Nick: Yeah, sometimes just, like, saying nothing and doing nothing and just, like, letting something hang is the polite thing.

Leah: I'm gonna invest in Tums.

Nick: I mean, good garnish. [laughs]

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: Oh, I learned so many interesting things about sushi that—in the Sushi 2.0 section that I'm loving. I'm particularly in love with the little cross fingers.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: The idea that I'm—A) I'm warding off vampires, and I'm letting people know that they can bring the check.

Nick: And I learned that you do not like untied bows.

Leah: I mean, does anybody?

Nick: No, but some people put up with it better than others.

Leah: [laughs] For me, it just exists as something I should be able to fix.

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we need more listeners. Because I just left the house and there's still a lot of rude stuff happening out there, which means we need more people listening to our show. So I need your help. Would you please tell a few people about our show? Right now! Text them a link, mention it at brunch, post it on social media. Because if everybody could just get a few more people listening, we would be one step closer to what, Leah?

Leah: World peace.

Nick: That's right. World peace. And if we achieve world peace, do you know what we're gonna win?

Leah: Happiness for all?

Nick: No, a Nobel Prize. So please get the word out about our show. Let's get some more people listening. Let's try and make the world a better place. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: I want to give a shout out to Joe Perry.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: Who took me and Lacey, my dog, if you don't know Lacey Jane, with his dog Layla on the most beautiful walk in Santa Monica. We had the most delightful time. Thank you so much for the wonderful tour. Also, I would like to say, speaking of, when Joe came to meet me, I was on the corner where a man randomly walked up to me and was telling me his entire life story. So that's just a callback to earlier.

Nick: Par for the course.

Leah: [laughs] And so it was great timing. But we had a wonderful time, and I deeply appreciate it.

Nick: That's very nice. And for me, I want to read a nice review we just got, which is quote, "I'm a long time subscriber, but have never written in anything to anywhere—no podcast, restaurant review or Amazon review. But both of your dispositions are so pleasant. Nick's knowledge and sass and Leah's big heart and laughs just go so well together. And both of you are so quick-witted and whip smart and such an easy listen. A relief from the daily grind. That's what made me write my first thing ever. Wishing you both so much success."

Leah: Why is this so sweet? Oh, my goodness!

Nick: Isn't that nice? Your first review.

Leah: So nice!

Nick: Well, I'm glad we were your first.

Leah: Honored!

Nick: And thank you.

Leah: So lovely. Thank you so much.