Grabbing Fresher Milk, Escaping Unwanted Reunions, Returning Bad Sangria, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we got so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go. Our first question is quote, "In a supermarket, is it okay to take milk from the back that has a longer shelf life?"

Leah: Is it okay? Am I for sure doing it? Yes.

Nick: So this question actually came to me from a journalist who was writing an article about grocery store etiquette, and was interviewing me about thoughts on this—and I have some thoughts—and threw this question in at the end. And I had never been asked this question, I have never thought about this. I'm not even sure if this is etiquette. So I was definitely caught off guard because I was like, "Oh, what's right? I don't know." And I was trying to do the thing that we do, which is like, let's talk about it and, like, let's walk through the issues and let's see if we can come to an answer. And this journalist was, like, not having it. And she was like, "Just tell me is ..."

Leah: "It's like yes or no?"

Nick: Right. Yeah, she just wanted the bottom line. And I was like, "Etiquette doesn't always work that way. You gotta talk it out." So I said I think it's fine, but let's talk about it to see, like, am I correct, and, like, how do we arrive at a correct answer here?

Leah: And it feels more like a moral conundrum.

Nick: Like ethics?

Leah: But then I was like, "I don't think it's—" like, I do it. I'm gonna admit to it. I'm admitting it to all of our listeners. But then when it was written out this way, I was like, "Oh, no!"

Nick: Right.

Leah: I've never thought about it. I was like, "Should I not be doing this?"

Nick: Is it wrong? Right. So the way I started was: etiquette is about being mindful of other people. So that's our baseline. And so I guess the first question is: is grabbing the fresher milk at the back, is that being not mindful of other potential customers of that milk? And it's sort of like, I don't think it is because the milk at the front is also hypothetically fresh. It is also fine. It is fine milk.

Leah: I also would like to say, does the milk in the front feel bad that you didn't pick it? So are we hurting the milk's feelings?

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Because it was like, "I was next in line."

Nick: Oh, you're being picked last at kickball in elementary school. I see.

Leah: Yes. So I think if you shouted out to the milk, "Hey, you're great too. I'm just a slow milk drinker, so I gotta grab the back."

Nick: Okay. I mean, I feel like if that helps, I think that's very courteous of the milk. That is true. [laughs] Also, I can totally see you actually doing that in a supermarket under your breath.

Leah: Oh, I know. I'm saying it because I absolutely do do that.

Nick: I see.

Leah: "You're fantastic. I just ..."

Nick: "It's not you. It's me and the rate of milk drinking I do."

Leah: Because, like, say, you have, like, five people in your house, that front milk that expires in a week, that's great for you. But if you're one person and it's like you're a slow drinker, I need those three extra days. And I want that milk to know you're perfect for somebody, just not me.

Nick: Yes, there's a lid for every pot. Yes. You'll find your—your person. [laughs] The other thing I was thinking of is, like, bananas. Like, when we buy bananas, there's all sorts of different ripeness levels of bananas, and none of us are thinking, like, "Oh, I should only buy the ripest. I'm not allowed to buy the ones that might be ripe in two days from now."

Leah: Hmm.

Nick: Like, I think we're all comfortable buying the bananas that we want, right?

Leah: That's a very good thing to relate it to, because definitely we all feel comfortable buying the bananas that we want.

Nick: But somehow when it's dairy, feelings are a little different somehow?

Leah: I think it's also that it's in a line, so you feel like I should take the one in front of the line.

Nick: Oh, that's true. There is this feeling of sequentialness.

Leah: Because if it was lined up this way, like ...

Nick: Horizontal.

Leah: Straight across.

Nick: Right.

Leah: I don't even think we would be asking this question.

Nick: That's true. And then also, I think we should just note the dates on stuff, like, this is not hard science at all. The best buy date doesn't mean the next day it's a bad buy date. These dates are almost arbitrary on a lot of products.

Leah: Oh, you don't have to tell—I grew up in a family that does not believe in best buy dates. Not only is it—I mean, it's just no, that's not real. [laughs]

Nick: Oh, I see. It's a conspiracy by big food to get you to buy more.

Leah: By big food, to get you to buy more.

Nick: I mean, it is true. It does contribute to a lot of waste. Absolutely. Yeah. So all right, great question, though. Great question.

Leah: Great question. And I'm probably going to think about it again multiple times over the week to be like, every time I now go to the store, I'm gonna be like, "How does everybody feel about this?"

Nick: And as long as you just give those affirmations to the front milk, I guess we're fine.

Leah: "Hey, you're great." I'll try to—I'm gonna try to come up with a milk pun for the milk when I do it so it feels ...

Nick: Oh, really look forward to getting that text.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So our next question is quote, "Can we talk about the etiquette of Save the Dates and RSVPs? Recently, a friend sent me a save the date for a party she was planning. It stated the date, general time and the type of event, but there wasn't a location or specific time. She then sent a separate message along with the Save the Date requesting an RSVP. But my assumption was that that note was for after the invitation with further details had been sent out. About a week later, she called me and asked if she could have my RSVP. I was quite surprised because I still did not have all the information. And it did not occur to me that the RSVP request was for the Save the Date alone. We worked it all out and all is fine, but it did pose an interesting conundrum of etiquette as I questioned if I made a faux pas for not understanding the request. Is it now commonplace that people are asking for RSVPs before invitations are sent, or was this scenario reasonably confusing?"

Leah: I love that question. "Is this scenario reasonably confusing?"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I feel like we should work it into a lot of things because that's really like ...

Nick: I mean, definitely a lot of my life I'm thinking this. Like, "What—what is this scenario, and is this confusion reasonable?"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Usually not. Usually it's not.

Leah: I do think this scenario was reasonably confusing.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, because the Save the Date is about saving the date. Just "Here's the date. Something's gonna happen. Just hold this date, and then we're gonna give you some details later. But just, like, save it." And usually we do that for an event that is far in advance, that does require more planning, like a wedding where you might have to travel or, you know, something bigger. Like, you're not typically gonna, like, save the date for, like, "Oh, let's hang out on Friday to watch Love Island." Like, I'm not gonna send you a Save the Date for that, Leah, because it's just probably assumed that we're gonna do that. But, like, we use Save the Dates for bigger things.

Leah: Yes, I agree. I feel like I'm doing a—but I mean, it could be like, "Put a pin in that day and then we'll get back with details."

Nick: Yeah, I guess a pin. That's a casual Save the Date. That's true. Yeah. But yeah, for this, this is reasonably confusing.

Leah: That's like the dress down Save the Date. Putting a pin in it is like the ...

Nick: Yeah, it's the jeans.

Leah: Jeans and sneakers. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Exactly. Now I will say Miss Manners, she's really bothered by people using RSVP as a noun. And she says, like, "Did everyone fail high school French?"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So it is a noun, I think, at this point. I think we should just give in on that. But if you want to follow the Miss Manners rule, she does not like that, and she would rather you didn't do it.

Leah: Mmm. Mm-mm-mm.

Nick: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think it's a little tricky to accept invitations when we don't have all the details, right?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I mean, so I feel like until I have all the details, like, you shouldn't ask me to respond.

Leah: No. I'd be like, "What am I agreeing to?"

Nick: Right?

Leah: "Where is it?"

Nick: Although there are hosts that actually do like to trick you into just agreeing to something without all the details. So that might be what's happening. Like, "Oh, please come to my house for something."

Leah: But I mean, that's even—at least you know you're going to your house. This is—I don't know the location.

Nick: That's true. Yeah. "Please hold the date and let me know you're coming."

Leah: And you're like, "Where is it?"

Nick: "Oh, doesn't matter."

Leah: Then you're like, "I didn't know I had to get on a plane."

Nick: But I guess for this host, they would prefer to have their guests respond without all the details. That's just the style of host they are. So I think it is fair to be like, "Oh, I missed the details. Like, can you give me some more details so I know if I can make it work?" Like, I think that's a fair response.

Leah: And I don't think that you committed a faux pas. I think that a lot of people would be confused by not having the details.

Nick: Everybody would be.

Leah: Yeah, everybody.

Nick: Who was this person who was like, "This is fine."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: No, of course not. And just as a reminder, Save the Dates don't require a response. Like, they're just an FYI.

Leah: Well, I mean, they followed up with an RSVP to the Save the Date, that's why.

Nick: Well, right. Yes. And so that's why this is provocative.

Leah: [laughs] It is provocative.

Nick: So our next question is quote, "I was recently contacted by someone I vaguely knew at university through common friends almost 30 years ago. I barely remember this person, but they seem to think we were friends. They are now trying to organize a reunion on the occasion of their next birthday. This would be a thousand-mile trip to go see someone I have no interest in. So I plan to simply say I couldn't make it once I had an invitation. Instead, they are now trying to coordinate a date that works for everyone involved, and they keep asking me when I'm free. I've been asked on Instagram, on Facebook Messenger and on a Facebook group set up just for this occasion. I don't want to volunteer any dates because I just don't want to go. I've been evasive so far, but they are not taking the hint. Is there a polite way to say 'Stop pestering me?' Would it not be appropriate for the organizer to pick a date and then let people RSVP as they wish?"

Leah: Also, I feel like I'm just saying—repeating the last sentences of our letter-writer. That's my theme today, our letter-writers.

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: But this, "Would it not be appropriate?" I mean, how many times a day do I ask myself, "Why is this person doing this?"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Unfortunately, we can't be like, "Hey, this is not how we're doing this."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, this is the worst because you're being trapped. You're being trapped, because in a perfect world, there would be an event and it's at a date and time and you don't want to go and you're like, "Unfortunately, I can't make it. Thank you so much, though." And that would be the end of it. And, like, how wonderful. Harmony has been restored to the universe. But we have someone who wants to accommodate your schedule. And I guess on some level that is nice, because it's like if you actually wanted to go, it would actually be nice to be able to participate in the scheduling. And it's just the fact that you have no interest in going that makes this maddening.

Leah: Yeah, I do think that the person who is setting this up is just trying to accommodate as many people as possible, and it's in a spirit of wanting to celebrate together that they're doing this.

Nick: Yeah, it's not coming from a bad place. No.

Leah: And I think that you can just say to them, "I'm not in a place where I can travel a thousand miles right now due to my schedule. I appreciate you inviting me, but it's not something that I can figure out, but thank you so much."

Nick: Yes, I like that. Although we've added an excuse to that, and I'm always a little hesitant about offering excuses because excuses can sometimes start a negotiation. So it's like, "Oh, no problem. Actually, I was thinking of having another event in your neighborhood, so let's schedule that. We'll come down to where you are because other people are in your town, too. So how wonderful!"

Leah: Well, I don't know if this person would be bothered if it was in their area because I'm sure there's other friends in the group they know.

Nick: Oh, this person will be bothered. This person has no interest in this person.

Leah: Oh. I read this as ...

Nick: It doesn't matter where it's happening.

Leah: Okay. Well, that answer would work for me because I just didn't want to do the thousand-mile trip. But if it was down the street on a Wednesday, I'm happy to swing by and have some nachos.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I will say for somebody such as myself who has a very moving schedule, I can't schedule out far dates for social events because of work. So I always tell people I can't schedule out because of—I mean, that's it. But for me it is because of my work schedule. When you know what the date is and it's closer to the time I can let you know.

Nick: Yeah, I guess that would probably be the best way to handle it. That gives you the most flexibility in declining, which is what we want because we don't want to go to this thing.

Leah: But I do think that this person, on the—on the flip side of that, the person who's setting up the party is probably just trying to accommodate people like you suggested.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And that if we just let them know, "Don't try to accommodate for me, I don't want to go." But in a nicer way. I think we can just say that because that way they don't try to keep—I think they just think that you want to go.

Nick: Oh, yeah, they think that. Yes. And I guess until you say, "I'm busy until the end of time."

Leah: Yes. That they're gonna keep doing this. So that's why I think it has to be like, "I have no intention." The nicest way of saying, "I have no intention of coming." So they don't try to keep doing this.

Nick: Yeah. No, I think something along the lines of like, "Thank you so much for thinking of me. Unfortunately, I can't commit to anything at this time, so best not to try and schedule around me, but thank you."

Leah: I like that very much.

Nick: And then, like, leave it at that.

Leah: I love that.

Nick: And now it's not about why I can't or could I in the future, it's just that's what it is.

Leah: I think that's perfect.

Nick: Now just, I think, for people who want to try and schedule, like, what are our signs as a host that a guest is reluctant, right? Because I think that's also what's missing. Like, the host is not taking the hint here that this guest is, like, not interested.

Leah: Well, I think the host—who I'm sure is a very lovely person—I mean, they're reaching out to somebody who they vaguely knew 30 years ago.

Nick: Right.

Leah: So I don't know if they are our barometer of ...

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Fair enough.

Leah: Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like if I reached out to, like, 10 people I knew and one of them was being evasive, I would get it.

Nick: Right. Although if you reached out to 50 people you didn't even know, and one was being evasive, I would also guess. You'd be like, "Oh." Right?

Leah: I would also get that, too. Yeah, I'd be like, "Okay, no worries. I'll let you know the date if you can come. If you can't, no worries."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, generally speaking, I will do one follow up with people but, like, there is a point where, like, I'm not gonna chase you if you don't want to come to my party. So, like, I'll follow up once, maybe twice. You're not gonna get a third out of me.

Leah: I'm also not following up on multiple platforms.

Nick: That's—I think maybe that detail is crucial.

Leah: Yeah, that's a little—a little bit of a—that's why I think we just need to cut it off. This person is hot to get everybody's timelines to the point that they're switching social media apps. So I think you can just be like, "I can't" the way Nick said it, which was lovely.

Nick: Thank you.

Leah: So they stop trying to ...

Nick: Yeah, I think that's the takeaway message. Gotta pick one platform and that's it. I don't think we want to be platform switching.

Leah: No, that feels like a ...

Nick: It's too much.

Leah: It's too much. It's some kind of a—I immediately thought of, like, the battles in Lord of the Rings where people are coming in from all sides, and you're like, "Hey, it's a lot. It's a lot."

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. So don't Lord of the Rings her.

Leah: Don't Lord of the Rings me. Or do Lord of the Rings me, but don't Lord of the Rings me in a battle scene.

Nick: There's a lot of ways to Lord of the Ring, I guess.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So our next question is quote, "Recently, I did a road trip to see spring baseball games. After a game, I went to a wine bar advertising homemade sangria. Since it was a hot day, this sounded delightful. I sat at the bar, and the patron next to me struck up a conversation about our favorite teams. And as the bartender brought me my sangria, my neighbor insisted he pay for my drink. Nothing weird here, just friendly people talking about baseball. The problem? The sangria was disgusting. The worst I've ever had. If I'd been paying, I would have had a polite-yet-direct conversation with the bartender by offering to pay for the sangria, but then asking for something else. Or I would have paid quickly and then snuck out. However, since my friendly neighbor paid for the drink, I felt I had to drink all of it. I choked down the awful drink and tried to keep up my end of the conversation. But what should I have done? What was my responsibility to my neighbor and the bartender?"

Leah: I feel like I would be the person in this that doesn't necessarily handle it correctly. So—because this is like the kind of thing where I just—I also would have just drank it.

Nick: Yes. That 100 percent would have been your response.

Leah: Yeah, I would have just drank it.

Nick: Right. Yeah. Yep. That's what you do. And I think that's a fine answer. I mean, that's definitely polite. I mean, that's the optimal etiquette response.

Leah: Unless it was actually going to make me ill.

Nick: Oh, health and safety always trumps etiquette. Absolutely. Correct.

Leah: And I would have just said, "Thank you so much for getting this for me. I think there's something a little wrong with it. I'm just gonna get myself another drink. I'm gonna pay for it. But I appreciate the—" you know? But if I felt I was gonna be ill, I would. I want to say that I have some boundaries.

Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: No, that's—and that's fair. And as a reminder, we really should set those boundaries. Let's not put ourselves in harm's way just for the sake of being, quote-unquote, "polite." Okay. Baseline set. But for this, it's not gonna kill you. It's just gross. It's just—just disgusting sangria, which happens. This happens. It's a thing that happens in the world. So yeah, I can see it's tricky because you're like, oh, I don't want to offend multiple people now.

Leah: Yeah. And it's a strange—like, if it was a friend and you were like, "Oh, this is—" it's different.

Nick: That's true. Yeah. Because we don't really know this person, and it was so nice of them to do it.

Leah: It's just a nice gesture.

Nick: So my initial thought is that life is too short for bad drinks.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So if you ever have a bad cocktail anywhere, I really feel like don't finish it, just get something else. And yes, you will probably have to pay for that something else and that's fine. But, like, life is too short for bad cocktails. So I feel like you should absolutely get a drink that you enjoy. I think that is fair, and I think we just need to achieve that somehow. And so I think my first thought was to politely let the bartender know, "Oh, I don't know if this sangria is my taste. Could I please have—" and then whatever it is. And then you turn to the person who bought you the drink and say, like, "Yeah, it just wasn't for me, I think, at this moment but, like, let me buy you a drink. What would you like?" And then I think we turn it around and we buy our neighbor a drink, and now we've bought the next round and now we have sort of reciprocated that hospitality. And they're like, "Oh, thank you so much!" And then, like, we move on. I feel like that's how I would do it.

Leah: I love this so much! This is phenomenal work, Nick Leighton. We're buying a round. "This isn't to my taste. Let me get something else, and I'm gonna get you something this time. And that's ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Oh, perfect.

Nick: And I think it's the buying the round, "Let me buy you something," I think that's the thing that, like, makes all this smooth over and fine.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Right? So do that.

Leah: I feel really good about this because I feel like this is something that could come up in the future for all of us.

Nick: Oh, this is the thing that will happen to people. Absolutely, yes. Where somebody buys you something that you don't like, and now you're stuck with this thing in front of them and you're like, "How do I swap this out in this moment?"

Leah: And I do agree with you. Life is too short to eat bad food or drink bad drinks.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, it goes for gelato. Yeah. If you go for gelato and you're like, "Oh, this flavor isn't what I wanted," don't finish it. Get more gelato. Get the gelato that you want.

Leah: I mean, just gems. Gems.

Nick: I mean, this is really a metaphor for life, though.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I feel like it's just a metaphor. Life is too short to, like, have bad stuff. So just, like, trade up for better stuff.

Leah: Trade up?

Nick: Is that the metaphor? Maybe. Maybe we have to work on this, but you get the idea.

Leah: [laughs] I love it. I love it, and I feel secure in this.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Next time this happens, I'm just getting a round for everybody.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "It's not to my taste. I'm gonna swap it out."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess is that too extreme? Like, having to buy a round because you didn't like your sangria? Yeah, I think, actually that—yeah, if you don't want to choke it down, I guess that is really the best option. I think it's one of those two things.

Leah: Yeah, because that way you know you won't feel weird in any way. You won't have to be like, "Did I? Was it?" You can be like, "Nope. I handled that above and beyond what was necessary."

Nick: Great. All right. So I think we actually solved one today.

Leah: I feel really good about it.

Nick: Yeah, I feel good about that one.

Leah: I mean, I didn't do it. You did. But I feel good in having this information.

Nick: Team effort, Leah. Team effort.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: A rising tide lifts all boats over here. So our next thing is, I guess it's an aftermath. Is this an aftermath?

Leah: [singing] Aftermath! Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

Nick: So what this is is some episodes ago, we were talking about collective nouns. And it's like a pride of lions or a pod of dolphins or a murder of crows. What is the collective noun for a group of rude people? And so I had some ideas, but we asked you all in the wilderness to give us your ideas, and oh, did you give us some great ideas!

Leah: Fabulous. Fabulous ideas.

Nick: Amazing ideas. So some of my favorites are ones that I came up with, but I like them a lot.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So I'll start with them. And so I think one of my favorites is "A disappointment." I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. So a disappointment of rude people.

Leah: I love it because it really has a Nick morality flavor that just makes it so perfect. Little judgmental, as deserved. As deserved.

Nick: Oh, I don't feel bad about it. Yeah.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: The other one I like a lot is just a sound. "Ugh." So it's just an ugh of rude people. I feel like that captures something.

Leah: It really does. One of my favorites of yours was "An infection."

Nick: Oh, yeah. I mean, I went down that path, which was like an infection, an ooze. Yeah. Because, you know, infections are bad.

Leah: Yeah. Because they're spreading.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I also loved a lot of our listeners sent in R words that I think really rolls off the tongue.

Nick: Nice alliteration.

Leah: We had "A rowdy," "A rash," "A rumble," "A regurgitation."

Nick: Oh, that's good.

Leah: "A rabble," "A roost," "A ravage."

Nick: Yeah. Those are all, like, very solid. And they sound good. And something that sounds nice with that alliteration, I think that definitely makes it a good contender.

Leah: And this doesn't start with an R, but it has a nice R sound in it. Somebody suggested "A churl."

Nick: Ah!

Leah: Which I—I like that. I can see it.

Nick: Churl Yeah, because in order to say it, you have to roll your lip a little bit. You have to, like, curl it a little bit. And that conveys the disgust that I think we want to convey with this.

Leah: [laughs] Yes. Yes.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, that makes it a good word. For sure.

Leah: And somebody sent in "A crass," which I love. And I think it suggests maybe that we could break down under the heading of different rudes, different types of rudes. We got the disappointment of rudes, we got the crass of rudes, depending on what type of rude they are.

Nick: Oh. Yeah. Actually, that's a really good point because, like, rudeness comes in different flavors and there's definitely rudeness that's, like, not crass.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: It's disappointing.

Leah: It's disappointing.

Nick: Or it's ugh. But yeah, it's not necessarily crass. So yeah.

Leah: Oh, somebody wrote in "An embarrassment."

Nick: Oh!

Leah: An embarrassment of rudes.

Nick: Yeah, I like that.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Well I mean, a lot of nouns actually have multiple collective nouns that are valid. Like, for dolphins you can say a pod, but I think you can also say a school or a team. So maybe rude people also gets to have multiple collective nouns assigned to it. We don't have to pick just one.

Leah: Perfect. Also, I call a group of dolphins a cutes, a cutes of dolphins. I made that one up.

Nick: I mean, it's not wrong. I mean, it's no more wrong than some of these other weird ones that actually are official.

Leah: It's not incorrect.

Nick: So I'm gonna post this list on the show notes so you can take a look at it. And this is a living document, I think. I feel like we're gonna add to it, and don't feel like we need to actually narrow it down at all. I don't feel like we actually have to, like, come up with, like, one or three. I feel like all of them should be valid collective nouns.

Leah: And I love of all of the suggestions our listeners sent in. They are fantastic and creatively wonderful, and I'm delighted.

Nick: Totally delighted. So thank you for those. Keep sending them in. And do you also have questions for us? Oh yes, you do! Send those to us, too. You can send them to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!