Faking Wedding Start Times, Asking for Gifts Back, Clipping Nails in Church, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody, it's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonama.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go! Our first question is quote, "I am attending a wedding of a close coworker. The invitation says that the festivities begin at 3:30 pm. It is now the day before the wedding, and I just received a text message from the bride and groom saying that even though their invitation has a 3:30 start time, they are accounting for members of their family who are notoriously late in showing up to events up to an hour past the start time. They tell us that the event actually begins at 4:30, and they feel comfortable sharing this with us specifically, as I am notoriously punctual. I understand the frustration with late family members, but is it rude to set up a start time that is not actually the start time? On a personal level, I have set up my day and arranged and paid for childcare based off the times specified in the invitation. Though it's only an hour, this feels like an unnecessary inconvenience. Is it okay to inconvenience those that can properly follow instructions rather than mandate proper behavior of those that can't? What say you?"

Leah: I thought this was such a great question because this happens to me. The same idea happens to me in other circumstances because I'm an on-time person.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So I thought this was such a great, great question to discuss.

Nick: Yeah. No, this is a great question. I think in general, I think we just want to be on time. I think this is polite, this is mindful, this is good etiquette. It just is.

Leah: Point blank. Stop. Period. That being said, there's a whole bunch of people that just can't be on time, and then this wedding couple has decided to deal with it by telling everybody the start time is fictionally earlier.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, when it comes to wedding etiquette, the rule is the time on the invitation, that is the time the ceremony begins. That's the actual time when that processional is heading down the aisle. So I think it is impolite to put any other time other than that time. And actually, Miss Manners has a great quote on this. She says, "Weddings should start on time. If they are delayed even a little, the guests begin speculating about whether it is the bride or the bridegroom who is balking."

Leah: So do you think a better way to handle it would be to put the specific time on, and then to call the people in your life that you know are always late and say, "Hey, this is the exact start time. If you could get there like a half hour early, that would be great."

Nick: I mean, I think that's good. I think if we had to—I don't love this. I don't love this—but I think if we had to, we could say the ceremony begins at 3:30, doors open at 3:00, sort of making it very clear that, like, oh, the ceremony is beginning at this time. Although for people who are habitually late, you know, is that gonna make a difference? I don't know.

Leah: Because I do understand our letter-writer's—she set up childcare, she scheduled her day around it. I do feel like we who are on time are punished for being on time. A lot of comedy shows I learned here in LA, the start time is significantly later than we've been told because they are making up for all the comics who are late.

Nick: Hmm. Yeah, so we have basically told those comics, it's okay to be late because we're not gonna start on the time we told you. And so what have we done?

Leah: So I was like, showing up the hour early, thinking that that's what we had to be there, we had to check in. And then people kinda like drizzle in, and then you're like, "Oh, this isn't really when I have to be here."

Nick: I mean, does time mean anything?

Leah: [laughs] I mean, does it though, honestly?

Nick: Right? I mean, because for this wedding, if this wedding starts at 3:30, I am gonna be there probably by 3:00. I would shoot to be there by 3:00. And if you've actually tricked me and you're not starting your wedding until 4:30, now I am there for 90 minutes before the thing even starts. You've actually made me wait for an hour and a half. Like, that's not nice.

Leah: I mean, that's a whole—an hour and a half is a whole ...

Nick: Oh, I can do a lot of an hour and a half. Yeah. Yeah.

Leah: Oh, I know. An hour and a half? Give Nick an hour and a half, he's reorganized the world!

Nick: Yeah. No, I do more in an hour and a half than most people do all day.

Leah: [laughs] It's true. It is true.

Nick: Yeah, that's not an overstatement at all. But yeah, so that is super rude. And I think why this bothers our letter-writer, why it bothers me, why it should bother all of you, is that yeah, you are punishing good people. You're punishing good people, and that's not how the world should work. People who are rude are the ones who should be punished. The consequences of society should affect them. So yeah, if these rude people show up late to your wedding, then yeah, they've missed your wedding. I mean, that should be the consequence, right?

Leah: You should have a bouncer outside not letting them in and say, "Well, you were late. Hope you learned your lesson. You can't come in."

Nick: I mean, at a lot of weddings, there is gonna be some sort of staff that will assist latecomers and, like, yeah, you're in the back row and that's the deal. There are etiquette consequences.

Leah: I mean, I think that we've solved it. I know you don't like it, but I do think it's a doors—if you know at least 50 percent of your people are late, people tell them the doors—this is just like a comedy show. Doors are at 8:00.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: Show starts at 8:30. And I mean, doors in a show, for a comedy show. Obviously I'm not calling your wedding show.

Nick: [laughs] A show? Could be. Depends on who the emcee is.

Leah: I mean, depends on what you wanna do. I also think that—well, our main takeaway is that we don't wanna punish the people who are actually on time. And they only told our letter-writer a day before the wedding, you know?

Nick: Well, I think they didn't want the secret to get out, right?

Leah: [laughs] I know. It's like, if you knew this was a punctual person, they had to set up childcare.

Nick: That detail really gets me.

Leah: It's the childcare that really gets me.

Nick: Yeah. Because it's like, oh, your inconsideration has affected my life financially now.

Leah: Oh, and you're like, scheduling your whole day. When am I gonna take them over? When am I gonna pick them up? Are they coming over here? It's like a whole extra—I also think you could, as an option, I'm just throwing this out—in the cards for the people that you think are late people, we have an extra little card.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: That says, "Love you to pieces. You know, you're a lateskis.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: "This is the start time, and I want to see your beautiful faces up front. So please get there before it starts." In a complimentary way, pre-typed little square. You can pop in all the people that you know are late.

Nick: Um ...

Leah: That's like, compliment, compliment. Give them the facts. Close out with a compliment.

Nick: Yeah. I love where that's coming from, but oh, that's real hard to pull off in a polite way. Like, could you imagine if you got an invitation that had an extra thing for you, which is like, "I know you're always late and rude, but, like, today, can you not?"

Leah: Yeah, but I wouldn't get that because I'm not always late and rude.

Nick: Yeah, I wouldn't get that. Or what if we actually had two sets of invitations, and the invitation I send to you says 3:30, but the invitation you send to me says 4:30?

Leah: Yeah, but those people will talk, and then it will be a whole thing.

Nick: Oh, that's true. Okay, interesting. Yeah. And actually, why this can be dangerous, let's say your wedding is at 5:30, but it's really 6:30, then the question is, am I wearing a tuxedo or not?

Leah: Oh!

Nick: Is this a daytime wedding or an even—like that actually could be—how embarrassing, because, like, if it was a 5:30 wedding, probably wouldn't wear a tuxedo because as we know, you don't wear tuxedos that early. Oh! How crazy! But if it was actually an evening wedding and then I show up and I'm not in a tuxedo, but it is black tie, then, like, oh, my goodness.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So all this could be avoided if we just have honesty about when the thing is starting.

Leah: I think we gave a lot of options here, and all of them are supporting our letter-writer and being like, "Yeah, that's irritating."

Nick: That's it. So yeah.

Leah: So yeah! [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So our next question is quote, "My lovely wife and I have a small yet ongoing debate. When I pour her a glass of wine, I always ask her to say 'when' to indicate when I've poured enough. I can be somewhat heavy handed in these situations, so I want to make sure I only pour the amount that she wants. The challenge, however, is that she refuses to actually say the word 'when.' She'll say, 'okay,' 'great,' 'yeah,' or even just 'no' on one occasion, though she did acknowledge that that one was not a great choice. She insists that 'when' feels rude, but also doesn't have a consistent replacement. So the first question is: does saying 'when' actually constitute a breach of etiquette? And the second question is: if so, do you have a more proper recommendation for a replacement phrase?"

Leah: I find this question delightful. I love the idea of this couple having this at home. It's so fun. It's so fun.

Nick: Yeah. Okay, so I mean, I have lots of thoughts. So what's your thought here?

Leah: Well, my thought is I've been in this situation where—because I never know. It's the same with pepper or parmesan cheese, or anytime you're pouring or serving something, "Tell me when." Like, that's the phrase.

Nick: Mmm.

Leah: Well, I see with your pursing noise that you don't agree with that, but that is something I say.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, say 'when.'

Leah: And has been said to me. And I do recall feeling weird saying 'when.' So I think what I've said is, 'that's good.'

Nick: So why I think this is different than, like, adding parmesan or pepper to something is that there is something that's called, like, a standard pour. A standard glass of wine is, like, five ounces. So, like, there is sort of like, an amount that is the finish line. Like, there is sort of an agreed upon level in the glass for everybody. You might want less. You might want more. But, like, you could also just, like, "Here is a glass of wine." Right?

Leah: I love that Nick always gives us the third option, which is not what the person asks.

Nick: [laughs] But it does feel like, "Hey, I would love a glass of wine, but actually, I don't want, like, a full glass." And that could be my request. Or, like, "Hey, I want a glass of wine, but I really want you to, like, go over the normal line." So I think the first thing I would do is take the wine glasses that you have in your house, pour five ounces of water in there, see where that is on your glassware so that you have an idea of what that looks like, and then, like, maybe that would solve the problem. Okay. That was the first thought, I guess.

Leah: Okay, so ...

Nick: That aside.

Leah: That aside, what do you think about the phrase 'Tell me when,' and how would you respond to it?

Nick: So, for me, the phrase "Tell me when" is really a shortened version of the full phrase, which is "Tell me when I should stop." It's not "Say when," it's "Say when I should stop." So I am telling you when you should stop in response to this in some way. So saying almost anything that indicates I am indicating something should give you the signal. I do not need to say the actual word "when" w-h-e-n. Like, that is not required here.

Leah: I like a "That's good."

Nick: I also, as research, poured a glass of wine for myself at home, and I thought to myself, "What would I say to make this stop?" And what I said was, "That's great. Thanks." That was my instinct.

Leah: Sounds good to me. "That's great!"

Nick: Right?

Leah: And then you throw in the "Thanks" on after just to ...

Nick: Yeah, nice little punctuation. But I do not think we need to say the actual word "when."

Leah: I mean, I feel like this was the chance for us to weigh on one of life's big things is what do we say when someone says "when?" And we're saying we say, "That's great. Thanks."

Nick: So maybe as a household, we can just agree that this is our new thing.

Leah: And as a household, Nick means everybody listening and us.

Nick: [laughs] We are all part of our household of humanity. Yes.

Leah: We are all a part of the same household.

Nick: Or we can all just agree that, like ...

Leah: Nope. Are you gonna go back to the five ounces?

Nick: [laughs] I mean, I was gonna maybe, like, try to go back to that?

Leah: You're gonna still go—some people just want a little wine. Some people want a big wine.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that.

Leah: This is not at a restaurant where we're doing five ouncers.

Nick: Yeah. No, no. That's why I didn't finish that thought.

Leah: No, but you did. We all heard it.

Nick: [laughs] Oh Leah, you know me too well.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So our next question is quote, "How do I politely decline someone's offer to share a hotel room? There would be a total of three people sharing a two bedroom. Not sure if there would be a sofa or cot available. Eww! The other two people are family, but we don't share a close relationship. I believe they'd like to save money by dividing the cost, which is understandable. But I need my own space and downtime while on vacation. I don't want to offend anyone, but I have to have my own room, or I'm not going. Please help!"

Leah: This one feels very easy for me because I also need my own room.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, this is not unusual or unreasonable.

Leah: It's not unreasonable in any way. "Thank you so much for offering, but I need my own space."

Nick: Yeah. End of story. I wrote down, "Thank you so much for thinking of me." Start with gratitude. "I'd love to join, but I prefer my own room when on vacation. Would me booking separate accommodations be okay, or are you only looking for someone to join you if they're in the same room?" Put it on them to decide if you can come.

Leah: Yeah. If that's the setup that they're asking you to go with them, but they seem to only want somebody who can share. I thought everybody was going on vacation, and then they were like, "Why don't we share a room?"

Nick: But I mean, Leah's always trying to get us to room together.

Leah: I just want to do that for a social experiment.

Nick: [laughs] You just want to have pillow fights. You just want to do mud masks. Yeah. Order room service.

Leah: I just would like to see the division of the room where everything I own is just, like, thrown everywhere, and then Nick's is organized in, like—I can't even imagine how organized. Is it by size, by color? I don't know, but mine is just wild.

Nick: Yes. I do feel like we probably have different styles of travel.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Mm-hmm. I think it's a very diplomatic way to say that.

Leah: It would be hilarious. I think it would be hilarious, that's why.

Nick: It would be great television. It'd be fun for other people to watch. I don't know how fun it would be for me to actually live it.

Leah: I don't know if it'd be fun for me to live it either, Nick!

Nick: Yeah. Oh, no. I don't subject myself to other people on vacation either.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yes, there's reasons why I have my own room. It's for myself, but it's also for others. Yes. Yes, it's to protect you.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So our next question is quote, "What do you do if you give a gift to someone who very shortly after passes away? Can you ask for the gift back?"

Leah: I wrote over this, "What? No!"

Nick: [laughs] I just wrote, "Nope. N-O-P-E. Period." Yeah, I mean, what a bonkers question.

Leah: What?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, is there anything else to say? Does this require explanation or further justification? Or do we have to explain why?

Leah: You just can't do that.

Nick: It's just not a thing.

Leah: Also, I just was, like, imagining, like, who are you calling? The spouse, the parent, the child? "Hey, I just gave this person a t-shirt from a concert, and I noticed that they passed away. Do you think you could, while grieving, go in there, find it and give it back to me?"

Nick: "No rush. Thanks."

Leah: "No rush. I can even swing by!"

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. This is just—you gotta let that go.

Leah: It's a gift.

Nick: You don't get to ask for those back, really, in most circumstances.

Leah: Yeah. I feel very definitive about this one.

Nick: Yeah. No, I think we're on the same page. So our next question is quote, "We are new to our neighborhood and like to take long walks with our dog. When we meet others, we introduce ourselves and our dog by name and the others usually do the same. Since we live in a relatively small community, we tend to see the same people and dogs again and again. The problem is that while we usually remember the dog's name, we often don't recall the humans' names. This can lead to an awkward greeting, so we just end up introducing ourselves as Scout's parents and referencing others as Rex's mom and dad. I'm pretty sure this is a universal issue since the same thing happened to me when we lived in New York. Do you have a suggestion as to a gracious way to handle this that does not make us look and feel like idiots?"

Leah: I think this is very normal. The most normal.

Nick: Very normal. Yes. I mean, remembering names, I think, is just a thing that we all struggle with. I mean, I definitely do. Everybody does. I mean, this is universal. The first question I had on my list was, "Do we need to know their names? Is this important? Do we need to know their names?"

Leah: If you remembered Lacey's name, I would be delighted if you referred to me as, "This is Lacey's mom." Ah, what a dream! I would then play the song that Nick had written for Lacey and I.

Nick: [laughs] Exactly. I mean, I guess you want to know their names. And so the question is: how do you then ask in a polite way? And I guess you just ask the way you ask whenever you forget somebody's name, which is like, "Oh, I'm so sorry. Would you remind me your name?"

Leah: I think you could say, "I'm so sorry. I have remembered you as Rex's mom and dad. Could you remind me of your human names?"

Nick: [laughs] Right. That's actually kind of charming and lovely.

Leah: Isn't that kind of charming? Because then you're like, you remember the dog's name and everybody appreciates that.

Nick: Now what if you forgot the dog's name, though?

Leah: Well, usually it's right on their collar, so that's pretty easy.

Nick: Oh, yeah. Okay, there you go. Oh, so you have to kind of go down for, like, a scratch.

Leah: Just going for a scratch. And then you're like, "Oh, Buffy!"

Nick: And then you have to catch the name. Right. The other idea I had was: ask what the Instagram account is for the dog, because obviously every dog has an Instagram account. And then through that, then you could probably figure out the owners' names.

Leah: You could.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Or we could just live in a world where we only know dogs' names. And I think people are okay.

Nick: Yeah, I actually—I don't think you look like an idiot if you forget the human names.

Leah: I think that at this point, we're expected to remember so much. Like, our brains are so fractured between all the online stuff, all the different things we do during the day. There's so much happening. Everybody gets it.

Nick: No. I think, actually our brains are being trained to not remember anything because we have the internet in our pockets, so we actually don't have to remember anything anymore. Like, how to go from Celsius to Fahrenheit. Who needs to know that anymore?

Leah: I think a lot of people never learned that.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. But you don't have to remember, like, who starred in any movie. You don't have to remember, like, where anybody's from. You don't have to remember, like, anything. You don't have to remember any details anymore.

Leah: I always go, "Don't tell me, don't tell me, don't tell me. I'm gonna remember."

Nick: And then does it come to you?

Leah: And then, like, three days later, I'll be like, "Sara Schaefer!"

Nick: There was a time when you would like, wouldn't know stuff, and you just had to be good with that. But I think our brains are just really good at just not retaining any information anymore because we don't have to.

Leah: I think we don't have to. But also, there's so much information coming in now that we can't.

Nick: It is a fire hose. Yeah. No, it's just a survival technique at this point. Right. Yeah. No, it's really true. Yeah. Oh, the world we live in!

Leah: And then feeling bad on top of it takes up even more space in our brain.

Nick: Yeah. Actually, if your brain was like a pie chart of, like, information and then feeling bad about stuff, I feel like that pie chart would be, like, mostly the feeling bad about stuff.

Leah: I—so sometimes when I host shows—I had an experience hosting a show earlier on in my comedy career where I forgot the name of somebody who I know very well just because so many different things were going on in the room that I was at my peak capacity. I was staring at their face, and I know them, and it was just gone. And since that moment, I have written everybody's name on my hand, and when I write it down, I never have to look because I have no anxiety about forgetting.

Nick: Oh, interesting! Yeah.

Leah: Because the anxiety is taking up so much space in my brain ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: ... that once I pull that off the table, then I can remember.

Nick: Yeah. Leah does write stuff down on her hand.

Leah: I do. Yeah.

Nick: I mean, whatever works.

Leah: Whatever works. But I don't think you look like an idiot at all.

Nick: No. No. And actually, I think it's actually kind of charming. As long as you remember the dog's name, then I actually think you're totally in the clear.

Leah: And thank goodness for collars if you don't.

Nick: Bingo. So our next thing is an etiquette crime report.

Leah: Wow, wow, wow, wow!

Nick: So is that what we settled on?

Leah: I don't know. That one was a little different. It was a little lower in the throat. Did you notice?

Nick: We did get an email from a listener who was suggesting more of a "dun dun," like Law & Order sound. But for now, we'll take the "wiener wiener." Also related to the etiquette crime report, we got one today, and it was something that happened a while back, and they called it a 'etiquette crime cold case.'

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I love that idea so much. It really got me. I was like, oh, it's a cold case. Oh, I love it! It's like an unsolved old crime. Oh, so great! So for today, it is quote, "I am a Catholic priest, and I was giving a brief sermon at my small church. While the congregation was sitting in the peaceful quiet of the church, listening to my brief reflection, I heard it: the unmistakable clipping of fingernails. The silence of the moment and the echoey walls amplified the sound so much that I quickly lost the attention of many members of the congregation who, like me, couldn't help glancing in the direction of the culprit. An old man decided that my four minutes of sermon time was the optimal moment for nail clipping. As if the interruption wasn't enough, this man left his nail clippings all over the floor. Perhaps even divine intervention couldn't help this level of rudeness."

Leah: I don't even have words.

Nick: I mean, there are no words. There are no words.

Leah: I love this. "I heard it." [laughs] Because you can imagine the—you can hear it just in the big room with the—oh!

Nick: I mean, if you can hear nail clipping on a busy subway going through the tunnels in New York City, you can definitely hear it in church.

Leah: Imagine. In a church! Clipping nails!

Nick: Is nothing sacred?

Leah: And then leaving the nails!

Nick: And then leaving it! I mean ...

Leah: I can't.

Nick: Yeah. Why are we—who—I mean ...

Leah: We can't even finish our sentences on this. It's so wild!

Nick: Although I guess if you're the type of person that will clip nails during a sermon in church, then of course you're that same person that then leaves those nails. Like, of course you are. You don't become this conscientious person, which is like, "Oh, I'm gonna take those with me now. Make sure that those aren't on the floor." Like, you're not that person suddenly.

Leah: I don't know what to say, Nick.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's an etiquette crime. Yeah, for sure. The very definition.

Leah: The very definition! And it paints such a picture. You can see the church, we're in the middle of a sermon, and then we hear in a pregnant pause.

Nick: Yeah, it's terrifying. It's horrible.

Leah: Terrifying, horrible.

Nick: Horrible. Well, thank you for sending this to us. And you out there, if you have been the victim or witness to an etiquette crime, Etiquettecrime.com. And of course, we'll also take your questions, your vents, your repents. Send it in. Send it to WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!