Experiencing Finnish Saunas, Leaving Long Voice Notes, Raining on People's Parades, and More

Nick: Do you leave the sauna door open? Do you rain on people's parades? Do you shoot strangers with water guns? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Let's get in it!

Nick: So I was just in Helsinki, like you do.

Leah: Like one does.

Nick: And yeah, it was actually great. I really recommend Helsinki. I don't know if that's, like, some controversial statement, like, "Oh, what? Who knew?" But no, it's actually totally lovely. And one of the important things when you visit Finland is you gotta go to the sauna. And they say "sow-na." And so I will try my best to say "sow-na" instead of sauna because it is actually a Finnish word. I think it's one of the few words in the English language that is definitively Finnish. So I think it's nice to try. And of course, my Finnish pronunciation probably needs a little work, but "sow- na" is what they say.

Leah: Sow-na.

Nick: And it's everywhere. It's everywhere. Everyone has a sauna. It's, like, in every residential building that has been built in the last 40 years. Like, it's in every apartment building. It's, like, in every home. Like, everybody has one of these in their house. And it's what you think it is. It's basically a little room where you have rocks that are hot, and water gets splashed on it and that turns into steam, and you sit near it and you enjoy it. Like, that's the whole thing.

Leah: It's very big in Maine in the winter. People sauna, and then they run and they jump into the snow.

Nick: Yeah. This hot-cold thing, it's wonderful. And in Finland, it's such a big deal that sauna culture is actually on the UNESCO list of intangible cultural heritage of humanity. So, like, it's on the same list as the Argentinian tango and yoga in India. Like, it's on that list. It's, like, that echelon. It is so integral to being a Finn.

Leah: I love that.

Nick: Yeah, it's totally wonderful. And it's the great leveler because everybody does it—young, old. Apparently people were bringing their kids as young as four months into a sauna. When I was in a sauna, I saw children. I think they were probably, like, maybe four years old, these kids. So, like, everybody does it. Business deals are done, political decisions, bachelorette parties. I mean, it's sort of like all occasions, no occasions, but it is just, like, woven into the fabric of Finnish society. And it's so great that there is something that, like, they all share.

Leah: That is very lovely.

Nick: So here I am in Helsinki, and everyone's like, "You gotta go to the sauna." And so I was like, "Okay, I'll go." And so here is what I learned, and here's what you need to know before you do it, because it's like, what you think it should be, but there's some specifics, and I just want you to be prepared. And so, first thing to know, clothing. So a lot of Finns would just be naked, and that's normal, and that's sort of expected. You don't have to be naked if you don't want to be. You can wear a bathing suit, or you can have a towel. In a more public sauna or, like, mixed-sex sauna, there would probably be a bathing suit requirement. And so, like, that solves that problem. But nudity, very common, but, like, optional if you don't want to do it.

Nick: And we want to make sure there's, like, no jewelry, like, especially metal jewelry, because it's hot in there. Like, that's the whole point. And so yeah, be sure to, like, take off the necklace or, you know, like, try to take things off if you can. And you want to shower first. You want to just make sure you're clean first. And wet. The sauna does work better if you're already a little wet when you go in there. Otherwise, dry skin, it's like a—apparently, there's some physics involved, and so it is good to be wet first. And also, it's nice to be clean before we go into the sauna because it is a shared space.

Nick: And so you go into the room, and you want to make sure you close the door behind you because you are letting all the hot air out. And that's really rude. And so just make sure you close it. And you want to find a spot for yourself. So it's probably benches. And so you find a bench spot. Higher is gonna be hotter—heat rises. Lower benches a little cooler. And you probably want to put your towel down to sit on it. Or if it's a public sauna, there could be, like, disposable sheet plastic-y things that you would sit on. I did see people just sitting right on the bench in their bathing suit, and those were Finns. So does that mean it's okay? I guess so. I put down, like, the little disposable plastic-y towel thing because it was near the front door, and I thought I should do that. But the point being is they're like, it's a shared space, so, you know, we don't want our bare bottom on the wood, right?. I think we can all agree.

Nick: And no phones because obviously, it's, like, a private space. But also, your phone can't handle that heat, so, like, do not have your phone with you. And no food or drinks, at least in the shared saunas. I guess if this is a private home, like, do whatever you want. But in the public saunas, like, yeah, there's no beverages. And it's steam heat. Like, that's the whole thing. So there's gonna be, like, this pile of rocks in the middle that are very hot, and we get water on them somehow. And so the sauna I went to actually had, like, a mechanical sprayer on it where there were, like, buttons on the wall, and you could hit a button, and it would, like, release water onto the rocks automatically.

Leah: Wow!

Nick: How fancy! And anybody could hit that button. Like, if you're feeling like, "Oh, somebody just left and the door was open a little too long," or, like, "Oh, I'm feeling the temperature drop," like, you could hit that button, but you just want to be mindful that you are going to be increasing the temperature for everybody in the room. So just, like, read the room a little bit. Like, how's everybody doing? Do we need this right now? I think if you're new to the sauna, I think you don't necessarily want to be the person to make that call. Like, let a local make that call. But at a certain point, I hit the button. It felt good. I was like, "Oh, I'm a local now."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: But very traditional would be more bucket of water with a ladle. And so then you ladle the water, and then you pour it on the rocks. And that's very nice. It's a very nice sort of tradition, and there's something kind of magical about that. And you just stay as long as you want. Five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes. And you can go in and out. You know, you can go out and go into the snow as previously mentioned, jump in the lake. There might be a pool nearby. There could just be showers outside. You can get a drink of water, rehydrate. And that's kind of what it is. Like, that's the whole thing.

Leah: I want to go to a sauna right now so bad.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. As I was sitting in there, I was like, "Oh, why don't we have this all the time in New York?" Like, I feel like, as a society, we could really benefit from just enjoying this, because it's really wonderful. And it's calming, and it's centering, and apparently there's health benefits, too, beyond just mental health. And yeah, it's a really wonderful tradition.

Leah: I'm gonna find one near me. You know, we have one at the gym, and Dustin was in the sauna—they're in the locker rooms. I'm gonna say "sow-na" as well. And there was a person on the phone in the sauna doing a business deal, and he said there was, like, four other people in there, and this guy was just, like, on the phone loudly.

Nick: He's just rolling calls.

Leah: Rolling calls in this sauna.

Nick: Come on! Yeah, that's a no.

Leah: That's a no!

Nick: Now I will say business deals do get done in saunas. And it is okay to talk. I mean, people do talk. I mean, it is a hushed space, but it is not necessarily a purely no talking space. I mean, I think read the room in terms of what vibe of sauna you're in, but it is social. I mean, like, if I invited you over to my house, like, "Hey, Leah. Come over and hang out," if we were in Finland, we might just be hanging out in my sauna. Like, that might just be a place we hang out and talk. And so that's fine. The Finns, in general, as a people, I think, are relatively quiet people. They're kind of like the Japanese in that way. Like, these are not loud talkers. No one is accusing Finns as being like, "Wow, did you see those really loud Finns in that restaurant?" Like, that's not a thing that happens. And so they just bring that sort of quietness into the sauna experience. And so people were talking, or you're having normal conversations, and that's fine. But it wasn't so loud that it was distracting. So I think we want to just be mindful of the other people. You know, like, with all etiquette, we just want to be mindful that, like, oh, other people are in this room.

Leah: Yes. I think in this circumstance, it wasn't like a nice conversation. It was like a loud "Ba ba la la!" on the phone. You know what I mean?

Nick: There's nothing more maddening than hearing a one-sided conversation.

Leah: Yeah. Wow. So wild.

Nick: Yeah. No, that's wild. Oh, I wanna talk about the whisk, the sauna whisk. And so this is something that I did not know about until I saw it. And so especially in the summertime, there will be this bundle of branches—very often birch. And so it'll just be like the tips with the leaves, and they're kind of gathered together in, like, a broom-looking thing, maybe a foot long, maybe a foot and a half. And they're gathered on one end, sort of like a bouquet. And the idea is that you get this wet, and it's sort of soft, and then you kind of whack yourself with it to stimulate the skin. Yeah, so you'll sort of like, bang your body, bang your back, bang your feet, bang your legs. Gently. This is not like flogging, but the idea is to use these branches to sort of just like stimulate circulation.

Nick: And so you will see people with these branches, these whisks, hitting themselves in the sauna. And so that's what that is. And then a little pro etiquette tip, like 2.0, something that's very nice. If you're in a sauna where there is the ladle and the water bucket, as opposed to the more mechanized version, it is very nice if you see that bucket getting low on water, if you're stepping out because you need a break, go fill up the bucket and bring it back for everybody else so that they have a full bucket.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: That's a very nice, elegant "I'm filling in the water bucket move."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: They really appreciate that. Yeah. So Finland. I mean, what a lovely place. So it is worth the flight.

Leah: I really am delighted. What a picture you've painted of a lovely, perfect experience.

Nick: Yeah. No, life in Finland kind of is that. Yeah. So get in it!

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and back in those phones.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about voice notes.

Leah: Which was fun to have Nick suggest this for a deep dive, because guess who leaves Nicholas Leighton voice notes.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I knew that when I selected this topic, because I just told Leah, like, "Oh, we're gonna do this topic." It wasn't kind of a discussion this time. I was just like, "Oh, let's just do this. As soon as I said that, I was sort of like, "Oh, she's going to read into that, and she's gonna think that this is a comment on her behavior." And turns out that is how you read that.

Leah: Well, I was looking forward to seeing if it was a comment on behavior.

Nick: Okay. Well, I think based on our conversation today, we will answer that question.[laughs]

Leah: And don't think that it will in any way change my behavior. [laughs]

Nick: Oh, that's clear. So voice notes. What is a voice note? I mean, I guess it's basically leaving somebody an audio message. It's a voicemail without having to call first, right?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so it's more intimate than a text message and it's less urgent than a phone call. And so why do you do this, Leah? Why do you like them? Why do you leave them?

Leah: I leave them A) Let me just say the way my brain works, I struggle with text messages because I can't read tone, so they tend to make me anxious. And I also feel like I can't relay a lot of the information that I'm trying to relay.

Nick: Okay, that's fair.

Leah: Also, in LA, I consider voice audio texts to be very LA because I leave them when I'm driving because I will not text, I will not touch my phone.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So if I feel like somebody needs information, I leave an audio. I think it's very—and I start out saying, "I'm so LA." Or I'm walking the dogs. You can't text and walk dogs. So I also leave them, but I only leave them with friends. I would never leave it for, like, a business person. And also a very particular group of friends.

Nick: Yes. I think that's a fair distinction.

Leah: And I have had a friend say that she doesn't like them, but it's also a friend who wants me to get right back to her even when I'm driving. So I was like, make up your mind!

Nick: Ooh, she wants to have it both ways.

Leah: Yeah. And I said, "I will stop audio messaging you since you've made it clear that you dislike it intensely, but I will no longer respond to you when you need the response because I will wait until I'm stopped."

Nick: Yeah. So your choice.

Leah: Your choice.

Nick: Yeah. I think for me the question is: is this the most effective way to communicate this message? And so I feel like that is part of it for me. Because I have people—not you—people who do send voice memos that are so long. I do not have five minutes for this monologue. And now, like, the iPhone will give you a transcript. But now I'm reading a five-minute transcript and it's sort of like this was not ...

Leah: Also, the transcripts are always wrong.

Nick: Yeah. Sometimes they're hilarious.

Leah: They're hilarious.

Nick: It's like, this is not a good use of my time. And so for that, I don't love it. But I feel like if it's entertaining or it is a good piece of gossip, or the tone is required, I feel like all of those are good reasons to leave a voice memo.

Leah: Yeah. I would never do a fiver.

Nick: Yeah. Well, so what is the length? What is an appropriate length?

Leah: Well, like, for you, I would never go over 90 seconds.

Nick: Okay. I appreciate that.

Leah: I have a friend who leaves very long voice texts to me, so I feel like she would enjoy a voice text back because she likes a lot of info.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And I could leave a 10 minute and she'd be in it. You know what I mean?

Nick: Wow! Okay.

Leah: I wouldn't. But I do think it's person based. I'm also not leaving a voice text for—like, yesterday, I was like, "What time are we meeting?" That's a text. There's no tone.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: I feel like a voice memo or voice text is like, "Hey, here's a whole thing that I can't really text. And probably I'm gonna, like, make some funny noises up top and do a little song about something, but I'm not expecting you to listen to it right away."

Nick: Yeah, I think that's a good expectation to set. Like, voice memos are not for the most urgent of things. Like, text is for urgent. Well, phone call, I think, is the best for urgent things.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: But I know a lot of people just really do not like phone calls. Like, that group of people who dislike phone calls is growing.

Leah: It is. I've actually done a few lately.

Nick: Ooh, how'd it feel?

Leah: And it was crazy. I felt like I was on my Swatch phone back in my parents' house. Do you remember when the Swatch phones came out? I wanted one so bad! I begged. I begged. I begged.

Nick: Swatch phones?

Leah: It was like a clear phone that you could see the inside of.

Nick: Okay, I can vaguely picture this. Yes. I didn't know it was called the Swatch. Like, Swatch as in, like, the watchmaker?

Leah: Yeah. Obviously, it was still plugged into the wall. This is when phones were plugged into walls.

Nick: Mm-hmm. So that.

Leah: I also wouldn't do it for somebody who's, like, a strictly business associate.

Nick: Yeah. I don't know if we leave voice memos in business contexts, right?

Leah: No, I would be emailing if it was, like, something that's not a—I don't know why they would be texting me, but I would be emailing.

Nick: Yeah. And then I guess one question is: how do we know if somebody wants voice memos? Because we wouldn't necessarily think to ask for permission in advance. Be like, "Hi, would it be okay if I send a voice memo?" Like, I think we don't typically do that. And then you've sent the voice memo to somebody and they don't want it but, like, they may not tell you that they don't like it, so then how would we know?

Leah: Oh, I've surrounded myself with people that will tell me they don't like it.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. They'll just be honest. Yeah.

Leah: Which I'm fine—I'm fine with. But know then that if you don't want voice memos, I will respond not when I'm walking, not when I'm driving.

Nick: Yeah. And I think if you're somebody who really doesn't want voice memos, then you could say that in a polite way, which is like, "Hey, voice memos are not the best way to communicate with me. Like, I do much better with texts." And you could just say that.

Leah: Yeah. And I as a person who—I have no problem with that. Like, I don't—as I said, sometimes text messages, I just—because I can't read tone, they make me so anxious. Unless it's, like, very clear or we're making jokes, or it's like, somebody I know very well. And I say that to people. "Can we just hop on the phone? Or send this in an email where it's not, like, three words?"

Nick: Yeah. So to answer the original question: I enjoy your voice memos because they are relatively painless and they are short, and they do usually involve some singing or something sort of insane at the top. So they are entertaining moments of comedy.

Leah: Whimsical! I try to be whimsical.

Nick: Yeah, there is whimsy. Yeah. There is sort of delight, frothiness in these.

Leah: And you've left me one in response, and I was delighted.

Nick: Yes. Wait, I do try to reciprocate messages in the format in which they were received. So I do respond to voice memos with voice memos sometimes. And they are fun, because I could just ramble and be like, no consequences. You're not being edited.

Leah: No consequences.

Nick: [laughs] So how freeing! But I think you're the only person I would leave a voice memo for. I actually don't know if I've left a voice memo for anybody else.

Leah: I'm honored!

Nick: Yeah, you should be.

Leah: I mean, I'm not leaving them for everybody, Nick.

Nick: I mean, good. I'm glad you're not just, like, giving it away.

Leah: There's probably only five people that I actually leave them for.

Nick: So you know if you get a Leah Bonnema voice memo, that's special.

Leah: Well also, it could also be special that I know that you would hate them, and I just haven't given you one because I think you're not ready to hear me singing off key randomly about a car going by that reminded me of a childhood memory. So ...

Nick: Nobody's ready for that.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So those are some ground rules on voice memos. These are just considerations to be considered.

Leah: Considerations to be considered. My favorites.

Nick: Put that on the pillow.

Leah: I think that'd be a funny pillow. "Considerations to be considered." Come on!

Nick: All right. Well, check the merch store. There could be a new pillow with a very long slogan on it.

Leah: Very long. I would love it if we'd started out big, and then you added a few more and it just got smaller and smaller.

Nick: Okay. Wow, now you have design notes.

Leah: You know what I mean? But I mean, you know, like, the beginning of, like, the Star Wars, where the words are coming out and they're ...

Nick: All right. Well, I'll work on that. Thank you. Thank you for your notes. [laughs]

Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "I recently told my sister-in-law that we would soon be getting a new puppy. The first words out of her mouth were, 'A new puppy? You'll never be able to travel again.' It irritated me that her first response to our happy news was so pessimistic. I've noticed that people often think its okay to make a negative comment when someone shares big news about their life. A move to New York might be met with, 'Get ready for the traffic.' Or a career change might prompt, 'Lawyers have to work all the time.' How do you politely shut someone down when they rain on your parade?"

Leah: Two things right up top. A) I'm very excited for your new puppy. Please send pictures. It is a wonderful choice. It's gonna change your whole life. Full of love everywhere. B) people do this all the time.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And it's deeply, deeply annoying.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think we all have these people in our lives, and that's just what it is. Like, there are just people who kind of go to this place automatically.

Leah: Yes. And I think a part of this is realizing who these people are and never telling them anything. [laughs]

Nick: Oh. [laughs] I mean, if only it were that easy. I mean, we can't withhold, you know, like, "Oh, I'm getting married" from your parents, you know?

Leah: I don't think your parents are gonna be, like, "Getting married? You'll never be able to travel again!"

Nick: Well, it depends on how expensive that wedding is. Yeah.

Leah: I do think we could—two options. We can preface with, "This is really exciting news for me, so if you could say something positive, I'd really appreciate it."

Nick: Okay. Try to head it off at the pass.

Leah: Or if they say something like this, you could say, "Well, I'm very excited about it," and then don't say anything else after, so they have to sit with the fact that they matched your excitement with a negative thing.

Nick: Yeah, I think the phrase I wrote down was, "I was hoping that you'd share my excitement. I appreciate your concern, but could we focus on the positive?"

Leah: That's very nice.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, that feels a little, like, rehearsed, but something in that flavor that feels a little more organic.

Leah: But people do do this all the time. Anytime you move—like, you move to LA, you move to New York. People are just like, "I'd never live there. Oh, get ready for LA. All the traffic!" And you're like, "Come on!"

Nick: Yeah. And people who do this, I think they are not intentionally trying to ruin your parade. And actually, I think it does come from a good place in some way. It comes from a place of wanting to protect you. It comes from a place of wanting to make sure that you've thought this through, that you're not making a mistake, and that everything's gonna be okay. Because ultimately they want you to be okay. And it's coming out the wrong way, but I think it is coming from a place of wanting you to be safe. And so I feel like if we can kind of know that, like, oh, they mean well with this comment, it's just coming across horribly wrong, that may make us feel better about the comment when it's made.

Leah: I think we could think that when it's close people in our lives, but basic strangers do this to you as well.

Nick: Yeah, that's true.

Leah: And they're just being judgy.

Nick: I was trying to Leah Bonnema this. You know, try to find the good here.

Leah: This is just one of my—this goes up there in my top pet peeves, when you're, like, positive, excited about something, and people come in and just—you're like, "Oh no, I know that sometimes life is horrible. I'm choosing to be excited about something. I work hard to try to remain excited. So if you could not come here and dump your negativity on me, I'd super appreciate it."

Nick: "Thank you so much!"

Leah: "Thank you so much! Because I've spent years in therapy to try to be a positive person."

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, the judgmental quality, I think that is why this is maddening. Because it is judgmental, which is like, "Oh, you have bad judgment because you just got a dog or you just decided to move to New York or you just decided to get a new job. Like, you exhibited bad judgment, and I'm gonna tell you why that's bad judgment." Yeah. And that doesn't feel good.

Leah: You could also just look at them and say, "Hi, my name is Leah Bonnema, and I make great decisions."

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Or obviously you would fill in your name.

Nick: No, no, no, no. You say Leah Bonnema.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: No matter who you are.

Leah: Actually, that would be very fun if you just said, "Hi, my name is Leah Bonnema, and I make great decisions."

Nick: I mean, let's put that on a pillow.

Leah: [laughs] I do like the idea of just saying—I mean, you could even say what Nick just said, which was, "I know this comes from a place of, like, caring about me, but I would love it if—I'm excited about this, so if we could be excited, that would be great."

Nick: Yeah. And you just got a new puppy.

Leah: Yes, I did.

Nick: And did anybody have any weird reactions?

Leah: No, but I also preface. [laughs]

Nick: That's true. Yeah. "Just so everybody knows we're excited about this new dog, and we just got a new dog." Yeah. Actually, when I heard—actually, the first thought I had internally was, "Wow. Leah Bonhama, adding more chaos to her life. Isn't that interesting?"

Leah: What's funny is that I knew that was your first thought.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. Well because you know me very well. But I didn't say that. And then my second thought immediately was, "This does not affect your life. And so if Leah wants to get another dog and have chaos in her life, it does not affect me at all. And so let's be happy for her." And then you see the pictures and they're very cute, and you're like, Okay, I get it."

Leah: I mean, Lacey's my dog, and Greta is her dog. I got a dog for my dog.

Nick: How nice!

Leah: Because well, they got on really well at the rescue. And obviously when we brought Greta back to the house, Lacey was like, "Oh, I didn't know this was happening in my house." So there was that, you know, negotiation period. But Lacey needs a buddy. She needs somebody to play with during the day when I'm on Zoom with Nicholas Leighton for Were YouRaised By Wolves?

Nick: Oh, this is my fault.

Leah: So technically, Nick, I got a dog for you. [laughs]

Nick: Oh! [laughs] I mean, I thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Leah: You're welcome. And now that you see what it was—I also—there is nothing like the joy of multiple dogs jumping on your face when you're sitting on the couch and just being like, "Hi, I love you so much!"

Nick: And just to clarify for the folks at home, Greta Mae is the name of the new puppy.

Leah: New puppy is Greta Mae. And she is—you know, Lacey's like a pensive, look deep in your soul kind of a dog. And Greta Mae is like, "Hi, hi, hi! What are we doing? What are we doing?" So they're very complementary. They're very different. Sort of like me and Nick.

Nick: Okay, I guess I'm the Lacey Jane in this scenario. All right, I'll take that. So our next question is quote, "I'm currently in a restaurant, dining alone for dinner in a small town west coastal bistro. I'm the only solo diner in the restaurant. I'm an infrequent solo diner, and as I wait for my dinner following my salad, I had some downtime, so I picked up my phone to read the news. I'm wondering, is this rude? Does my solo existence make it okay to browse the world wide web, or could I be annoying other guests?"

Leah: I am a frequent alone diner.

Nick: Ah, solo dining! I mean, we've talked about this. It's the best. Highly recommended.

Leah: Unless you're watching videos on your phone with no headphones or you've left the notification dings on ...

Nick: Right.

Leah: You're at your table. I always read at my table.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think reading a book in a cafe is like a time-honored tradition, and this is sort of a modern version of that. And I think yeah, the idea of, like, oh, let's not annoy other people around us is our etiquette baseline, so I think if we can achieve not doing that, then I think it's okay. So yeah, let's not make noise.

Leah: I also think it would be very odd if I was at a table alone and there was, let's say, a couple next to me, and they were having their dinner, they were talking, and then they leaned over and they were like, "Hey, you catching up on your Instagram messages in complete silence is bothering me."

Nick: That would be provocative.

Leah: Provocative! I would be like, "Why are you obsessed? I'm literally sitting here. I'm not holding my phone up high."

Nick: Right.

Leah: Or asking other people to watch videos or making any noise.

Nick: Yeah, totally. A couple things I would mention as things to be aware of. One is a lot of times when you have your phone, you might set it down as a server comes to, like, bring you something or take something away, and you just want to be careful that when you set your phone down, you're not setting it in the place where they want to put something. So, like, you might set your phone down on the right, exactly where they want to put the wine glass, and it's sort of like, oh no, don't do that. So it is good just, like, to put the phone away and give the server your full attention whenever they approach you, so that you're kind of engaging with them and you're not also making their job harder. That's something to note.

Leah: Yes. Great note.

Nick: Another thing to note, which I have never had this problem, but I have seen this elsewhere. If you're watching something or reading something that makes you very emotional or laugh out loud, just know that, because I don't think we want to have you breaking down crying watching puppies reunited with their owner videos and kind of making a scene in a restaurant.

Leah: I love Nick's, like, "I've never had that problem."

Nick: [laughs] No, actually, I was on a plane recently, and the woman next to me was bawling. Bawling! And I looked over just like, "Oh, are you okay?" And she's like, "It's this memoir." So, like, you know, you could be affected by media, which makes sense. So I think if you're in a restaurant, just be mindful. And it's fine if you want to cry alone while you're reading a memoir on your phone, like, have at it. Just, like, know that, like, oh, you might be catching other people's eye. Or, like, laughing out loud, really loud because you're watching funny videos, you know, just know that.

Leah: Solid note.

Nick: Yeah. But yeah, in general, etiquette always adapts to the context. You know, etiquette is very context dependent. So yeah, as long as the context is like, "Oh, I'm mindful of the people around me," then we're good.

Leah: Yeah. Enjoy your evening out with yourself.

Nick: Yeah. I think that's everybody's homework. If you've never dined alone, do it.

Leah: Do it!

Nick: Do it this week. Give it a whirl, see what it's like.

Leah: I would also accept a movie alone, which I love.

Nick: Yes. I mean, movie alone is fine. Also totally fine, because, like, we're not supposed to be talking during the movie anyway, so it's fine. But dining alone, I think, is different than a movie, no?

Leah: I think it is different, but I enjoy both immensely.

Nick: Oh yeah, solitude is great.

Leah: [laughs] What's great about a movie is you're having a shared experience alone.

Nick: Alone. [laughs]

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So do you have questions for us about shared experiences or anything else? Let us know! You can let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com, or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently. Or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: Ugh. I feel like I'm on a roll, but I am gonna repent again.

Nick: What? How do you keep making etiquette mistakes. What is happening?

Leah: What do you mean, how do I keep making etiquette mistakes?

Nick: [laughs] I know. Rhetorical. Okay, what has happened this time?

Leah: So I have gotten some messages from our lovely listeners who are also friends of mine. We have come down hard on brunches and picnics.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: And these are people that I have either brunched with or picnicked with.

Nick: Okay. And so they take offense?

Leah: They felt—I feel as—nobody said this exactly, but I feel as though they felt that I then didn't want to be with them, which was actually the opposite takeaway.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: If I have brunched with you or I have picnicked with you, I meant it.

Nick: And it means I like you so much ...

Leah: Yes!

Nick: ... that I'm willing to be far away from a bathroom.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: For you. That's how much our friendship means.

Leah: Or go out at a normal time of day that I wouldn't normally go out with. It's a compliment.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: It's actually a compliment. And I wouldn't do—contrary to what one may think about my personality, I actually wouldn't do something I don't want to do.

Nick: Yes. I think let's clear up that misconception real quick. Leah doesn't do things she doesn't want to do.

Leah: I really don't.

Nick: Yeah, you really don't. I think you want to accommodate other people as best you can, but at the end of the day, very healthy boundaries when it's like, "Oh, I'm not doing that."

Leah: Yeah, I really don't like doing things. I mean, I don't even want to do something I don't want to do for 10 seconds. So ...

Nick: Right.

Leah: ... if I have picnicked with you or brunched with you, I thought this would be lovely. I really like these people. I really like the event I'm being—and I want to do it. And I had fun. So I want you to know that, because it seems that some feelings were hurt, and you should actually take it the other way.

Nick: So wait, this is not a repent. This is a vent. This is a vent for people making you feel bad for ...

Leah: No, I didn't feel like they were making me feel bad at all. I did not feel like that at all. I feel like the feelings were hurt, and I don't like that. I don't feel vent-y at all about it.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I feel repent-y that it wasn't clear that I do do these things for people when I want to, and I don't feel made to do them. I just like those people.

Nick: Yes. And to clarify, we don't hate brunch. We don't hate picnics. It's just there are other times of day or venues we prefer eating more.

Leah: We're not hateful.

Nick: No. Especially when it's like French toast. I mean, you can't hate that.

Leah: You can't hate it. The only thing—and Nick and I actually recently brunched together.

Nick: We just had brunch. Yes.

Leah: We just had brunch.

Nick: We just shared bowls, and there were eggs involved. And there was—yeah, it was fun.

Leah: There was vegan yogurt, which ended up being a bad choice.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: But you live and learn.

Nick: Who would have known?

Leah: I should have waited 'til Nick ordered and then did what he did. But I liked ...

Nick: Well, isn't that good advice for everything?

Leah: [laughs] It really is. It really is.

Nick: [laughs] But okay. All right, so we just want to clarify that if you have had Leah at a brunch or a picnic, it actually is a high compliment.

Leah: It's a high compliment. And my guess is that it's the same for you.

Nick: Oh, for sure. Yes. Oh I mean, you think I'm gonna, like, show up at a picnic out of obligation? No.

Leah: No!

Nick: I'm happy to decline invitations for things I don't wanna do.

Leah: I do think I just give out the vibe that people don't get that I actually am declining things. I do. I'm very protective of my time, and when I socialize, I really mean it.

Nick: Yeah. No, you're very thoughtful with your calendar. So there.

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: Yes. And for me, I would like to vent. And so Leah and I were just in Portland doing a live show. So fun. So fun. And I—where do we—how does this happen? So I just land at the airport, and it's a long flight. There were headwinds. It was a particularly long flight. And I had just actually flown in from Helsinki, like, a couple days earlier than that, so I'm jet lagged. I'm tired. What time zone am I in? I've been on a plane nonstop for a whole week.

Nick: And so I land, and I take the Max, which is like, this nice sort of tram thing from the airport down to Portland. Very convenient. And I get off at my stop, and it's like, ah, okay, almost at the hotel. And so I wheel my luggage off the Max, and I am sort of, like, getting my bearings and just, like, checking the Google map. And it's sort of afternoon and it's a little overcast. And I'm starting to walk, and then it's like, I feel rain. I feel, like, some drips on my head. And it's sort of like, wow, I'm only here for two seconds and it's already raining in Portland. How cliché!

Nick: But then it's sort of like, oh, no, that's not what that is. And then it's sort of like, is that an air conditioner like in New York City? It's like, no, it's not that. And then I feel another, like, blast of water on the back of my head. And it's sort of like something is going wrong. Something is not normal. What is happening? And I was like, what do I do? And so I turn to the source and there are kids, youths, on the Max train that is about to leave. And one of these kids has a squirt gun. Squirt gun. Has a water squirt gun and has shot me. I have been shot. I have been shot. And they are laughing because I make eye contact with them because it's sort of like, oh, that's what that was. And they're giggling and they think it was so funny. And it's sort of like, that's not—I'm not in the mood for that. Like, I love whimsy. This was not whimsy. This was not the time or place for this.

Leah: I was already in Portland, and I got a text message that was just "I got shot with a water gun." And I don't know if I was walking or if I was already—but I fell over. It was like, what?

Nick: Because, like, when—when is anybody—why are we shooting strangers with water guns?

Leah: When does that happen?

Nick: Like, when is that happening? And so these kids, and they're teenagers. They're like—yeah, they're probably like late teens. And they're having a great time.

Leah: Late teens?

Nick: I mean, how old are people? I don't know age. I mean, they were definitely older than 15 but, like ...

Leah: Really?

Nick: ... young enough to not be prosecuted as an adult, I guess, for this crime. Like, somewhere in that 15-16 zone, I guess. And so I turned to face, because I was, like, probably 20 feet up past the car door because I had already left the Max. And so the doors close to the tram and are about to pass me. And so I stand right at the line on the platform waiting for them to cross so I can give them a death stare as the tram is passing. Because I'm like, "Okay, I can't do anything other than just make them feel shame." And so the tram starts to move, but as that car and the windows pass me they have their back to me, and it's like, ugh, I will not even get that satisfaction.

Leah: It's like, you got hit twice.

Nick: Yes, I got—it was a double whammy. Double whammy. So I did not get the satisfaction of giving them my signature death stare. And I was a little wet. Luckily, I was wearing fabrics that can get wet. I left all my suede at home. But yeah, it's like, why are we shooting strangers? Why are we doing that? And of all people, me?

Leah: I haven't even heard of that happening to people.

Nick: I don't know what we do with this.

Leah: This is what we do with this.

Nick: Like, who's carrying around a water gun? Also, it was Portland in, like, 60 degrees. It wasn't like some hot summer day.

Leah: Yeah, it wasn't like a gift. "Oh, thank you for cooling me down!"

Nick: Although I don't want to be shot with mysterious water in any climate.

Leah: Oh, me neither. I would immediately think that somebody was trying to poison me. That's what I would think.

Nick: Yeah. No, I definitely was concerned about, like, oh, what is happening? So that is my vent. I hope it doesn't happen again. But I think, just as a reminder, let's not shoot people with water guns in public.

Leah: Solid reminder. That's a solid reminder.

Nick: That's a solid one. So there you go!

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned in this lovely—what would we call this? A journey through saunas?

Nick: [laughs] Uh-huh. Yes.

Leah: A whisk. I learned about a whisk.

Nick: Ah, yes. The sauna whisk.

Leah: Love the sauna whisk. And then I didn't even know there was a UNESCO list of cultural intangibles. I mean, that's delightful. And that saunas are on there.

Nick: Yes. And speaking of exclusive lists, I learned that I'm on a list of very few people who get voice memos from you.

Leah: This is true.

Nick: Oh, very VIP! So now that I know that I'm VIP with these, I'm in a much better place. Anything that's exclusive, I'm in.

Leah: [laughs] That is the way to think of it.

Nick: Yeah. No, that's how I'm gonna think about it from now on. Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we need more listeners. We need more of you. And so we need you to tell more people about us, because the more people that listen, the more polite everybody's gonna be. And the more polite everybody is, the closer we're gonna be to achieving world peace. And then when we get world peace, Leah, we're gonna win the Nobel prize, and that will look very nice in my house. So please tell some friends about us.

Leah: I don't even need a prize. What I would love is just everybody waved when you let them into traffic.

Nick: Okay. Well, it starts with that, and then who knows? So please tell some friends about us, and we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: I just wanted to do a cordial of kindness to all of the wonderful Wolves family who came out to see us in Portland.

Nick: Yes, that was mine, too. We had such a fun time in Portland, and everybody who came out was so lovely. It was so fun to meet everybody. And people flew in from Texas and Washington and, like, it was such a great crowd. So I had a nice time and hope everybody did, too.

Leah: I got very emotional seeing all the people when we came. It's just very lovely.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, people came in, like, wearing t-shirts with our catchphrases on them. It was so amazing! [laughs] And so it was so fun to just, like, hang out with everybody. And we got great questions, and we had a great time. So if you have not seen us live yet, please come to our next show. Sign up for a newsletter. And we can't wait to see you.

Leah: Thank you so much!

Nick: Thank you. Yeah. No, it was a blast.