Eating Napoleons, Using Annoying Email Phrases, Looking Nice on Subways, and More

Nick: Do you smoosh your Napoleons? Do you bump things to the tops of people's inboxes? Do you eat burritos while getting your hair cut? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

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Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Please, let's get in it.

Nick: So for today's amuse bouche, I want to talk about Napoleon.

Leah: I just saw the movie.

Nick: Okay. So we are not talking about the French emperor.

Leah: Oh, not the Bonaparte?

Nick: [laughs] Not the Bonaparte. We are talking about the pastry.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Now have you ever had a Napoleon pastry?

Leah: I haven't had a Napoleon. I've seen them on television.

Nick: Okay. So for anybody who doesn't know, a Napoleon is traditionally a layer of puff pastry, and then a layer of, like, cream, another layer of puff pastry, one more cream and then one layer of puff pastry on the top.

Leah: I'm like, "I've seen them on TV." [laughs] I just meant I know what they are.

Nick: Yes, it actually is a classic, lovely dessert. And before I get angry letters, I just want to maybe talk about whether or not Napoleon is the same thing as mille-feuille, which is the French version of this thing. And so some people would say that the Napoleon is actually the Italian version, typically made with almonds, and that the French version, the mille-feuille, which translates as, like, "a thousand layers," is like the French version. Or whether or not these are really the same thing, and we just call mille-feuille Napoleon in English because that's easier to say. So there is some conversation about this.

Nick: And then there's the question of where does the word "Napoleon" come from? So some people say it is actually named after Napoleon Bonaparte. And no, I think according to most people. Some people say that the word "Napoleon" actually comes from the fact that it is popular in Southern Italy, in Naples, Napoli, Napoletano. And this just sort of became the word "Napoleon" as we play telephone as time goes by. There have been other stories that, like, oh, Napoleon ate hundreds of these before he went into battle at Waterloo. [laughs] And sort of like, I don't—I don't think Napoleon was eating pastries before the Battle of Waterloo. I don't think that's happening. Also, Napoleon? Famous for actually not enjoying food. He actually is famous for eating and running. Like 10-minute meals, 15 at the most. Like, he was not a gourmand.

Leah: He was a busy man.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, he had a lot to do. And sidebar, as long as we're talking about Napoleon, he was actually not that short. He was actually, like, above average for his height. And where this rumor started is that his doctor wrote down that he was 5'2" on some document, and that is not our current measurement system, those are French inches of that time. And so at that time, an inch was actually bigger than our current inch. So 5'2" back then actually translates as, like, 5'5", 5'6" which was, like, above average. So so much to say about Napoleon!

Leah: I—that's—I actually knew that. I haven't had a Napoleon pastry, but I did know that about Napoleon. And any time someone around me in a group says "Napoleon complex," I always look at them and I say, "You know, he was actually not that short."

Nick: "It's actually Frankenstein's monster." [laughs]

Leah: It's actually Frankenstein's monster." [laughs]

Nick: No, I'm glad that you're going around correcting people. That's great. So back to the pastry, the topic at hand. So the question here is: how do you eat this with the grace and poise that you have inside of you? How do we—how do we do this in an elegant way? Because the problem is it's flaky and it's creamy, and you could smush the whole thing and make a huge mess.

Leah: And I do believe it's flaky and it's creamy because of what I've learned from British Bake Off is that you put the butter inside, you're layering the butter inside the pastry dough and rolling it, and so it's—whoo!

Nick: Yeah. No, it is a laminated pastry where you are basically taking advantage of the moisture and butter that expands during baking to create those separated layers. Yeah. I mean, what a technological feat.

Leah: Incredible.

Nick: So how do you eat this thing? I just served it to you. We're—we're sitting in a cafe in Paris, and Pierre Hermé is here. Uh, he's made it just for you.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: Oh, bonjour, Pierre! Merci!

Leah: Bonjour!

Nick: And so ...

Leah: Comment ça va?

Nick: ... we don't want to embarrass ourselves in front of Pierre Hermé. So what do we do?

Leah: Well, I already love the idea that you said "With the grace and dignity that is inside of me." Is that the direct quote?

Nick: [laughs] Uh, something along those lines, yeah.

Leah: I mean, I would have just thought that I took my fork.

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: And I forked it down the side, but obviously that's not the answer.

Nick: Well, yeah, because if you do that, you're smooshing it.

Leah: So I guess I'm going to pick it up like it's a submarine.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: And then just ...

Nick: It's a hoagie. It's a pastry hoagie.

Leah: How can I fork it down?

Nick: You mean like from the ...

Leah: Am I knifing it?

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Like from the tong down? Like, just ...

Nick: Straight down. But then I think we are also smooshing it because we are applying pressure to that top layer which is going into a oozy, creamy layer.

Leah: Am I getting a steak knife?

Nick: Oh, something serrated!

Leah: Like a serrated knife?

Nick: So ...

Leah: I'm gonna pick it up if it's this complicated.

Nick: Okay. So Emily Post, 1922, she says that, "If you can eat a Napoleon or a cream puff and not let the cream ooze out on the far side, you need not use a fork, but if you cannot eat something, no matter what it is—" she actually says that, "No matter what it is," which sounds a little ominous, "without getting it all over your fingers, you must use a fork." So if you can do it and it's a teeny tiny, adorable petit four-sized Napoleon, I guess you could pick it up, but most of the time it is much larger than that. So the etiquette rates actually do not provide much guidance here. All Amy Vanderbilt says is—she just says that they're treacherous and you eat them with a fork. But, like, that doesn't get us very far.

Leah: What are we gonna turn the lights out every time we get a ...

Nick: [laughs] I mean, that's an option. Yeah. And Elizabeth Post, the granddaughter-in-law of Emily, she says that you hold them with the dessert spoon and then cut and eat it with a fork. But that—that does not—what are we doing with that? And, like, just holding it down with a spoon? And then I'm still making a mess. Like, this is not helpful.

Leah: I'm not gonna bring my spoon into it at all.

Nick: Yeah. No, the idea of adding a spoon to the mix, like, that feels wrong. Like, what are you doing? Now Judith Martin has not weighed in at all on this question. I could not find her talking about this dessert anywhere in any of my resources. So if she's ever talked about it, I don't know if it was ever recorded.

Leah: Clearly staying away from the topic because it's so intense.

Nick: Or first rule of Napoleon Club: we don't talk about Napoleon Club.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So here's what I do. This is what I do. And so absent any other better guidance from any of the etiquette greats, like, take this for what it's worth. So the first thing I do is we gotta do some reconnaissance. So we're gonna eye this pastry and determine what is going to happen if I put my fork into it. How firm is this pastry? How firm is this cream? What is the pressure-to-fork ratio I'm about to experience?

Leah: Whoo!

Nick: So we just gotta do a little exploratory poking to see, like, what's about to happen. It may be a soggy pastry, in which case sorry about it, but you could probably just cut it with a fork, like, on the side and you're good. Now sometimes the cream is actually the problem. The cream is, like, frozen because they just took it out of the fridge. So in that case, sometimes you might want to just wait a few minutes for it to warm up—pro tip. Just give it a hot second.

Leah: Hmm!

Nick: Now the third thing I would then do if options one and two don't work, I would turn the pastry onto its side, and so when I use my fork to go down, I'm going against each of the layers together.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: So we turn it vertically. That's what I would do.

Leah: What? Of course!

Nick: Right? Right? That's what I would do. Now there is an additional strategy that some people use. I don't love it. I'm gonna tell you about it just so you know that it's a thing that exists in the world, but I don't know if I love it. Some people start from the bottom and work their way up. So they eat the bottom layer of pastry first, and then they move to the middle layer and then to the top, sort of like from one end to the other. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, they're gonna take their first bite from the bottom layer.

Leah: So then you're not getting all the layers at the same time.

Nick: You're definitely not getting all the layers at the same time, but you're gonna get a little cream and a little pastry, it's just going to be the bottom layer against the plate.

Leah: Hmm.

Nick: And to me, this feels methodical, calculating. And it feels like when I'm enjoying dessert, I don't—I don't want that. I want more—more whimsy. I want a Leah Bonnema-approach to pastry.

Leah: [laughs] Why, thank you.

Nick: Like, there might be a crumb and I'm like, "I want to eat that crumb now." Or, "In this bite, I want this ratio of cake to cream." And I want that flexibility as I go along. And if you're just sort of marching across the pastry in this orderly fashion, have you lost the joy of the pastry? What have we done?

Leah: What have we done? Is it corn on the cob? No, we're not typewritering this.

Nick: Right. Oh, it's very much that, and I—and so I don't love that. I don't love that. So it's a strategy that some people use. Do with it as you wish, but it feels like you lose—you lose the point. You lose the plot. And I don't—I don't ever want to lose the plot of pastry.

Leah: [laughs] That's a quote. "Nick doesn't ever want to lose the plot of pastry.

Nick: So that is a Napoleon.

Leah: I love it!

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and into the interwebs.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about phrases people use in email that bother us.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: So I love this topic.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, because we all—we're all sending and receiving emails. So, like, we all—we all have things on our list. What's your number one offender? Let's just start there. What's the thing that actually just grinds your gears the hardest?

Leah: Well first, I want to say to our audience what happened was you sent me an email saying one of these phrases coming up are as, like, a question, but I know you hate it so much that I was like, "Should we just make it a whole deep dive?"

Nick: Yes. That did prompt this. Yes, it is—it is ripped from the headlines of my life.

Leah: It was ripped from Nick's passion for one of these phrases.

Nick: So the number one thing on my list is "Bumping it to the top of your inbox. Just bumping this email at the top of your inbox. Just bumping it to the top. Just bumping it. Maybe you didn't see it, so I'm gonna bump it." Any of the—any of the variations on that theme. I don't know why I dislike this so hard, but oh, that is—that's the number one for me.

Leah: Well, you know, I think I've discussed it as one of my vents that somebody told me they sent an email. I said I never got it.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: So then they told me they did send it, even though I did a check in the trash, the spam. Clearly not there. So then they resent me the email.

Nick: Which okay, bold move, but ...

Leah: Not a forward to the one that they had already sent. They resent the email.

Nick: Right. Yeah, no evidence of the previous sending, by the way.

Leah: No evidence of the previous send. And then wrote at the top, "Bumping this to the top of your inbox."

Nick: Yeah, that's the twist of the knife. That's ...

Leah: Whoa!

Nick: Yeah. And I don't love it. And I was trying to think, like, why do I dislike this so much? Because it implies that oh, you got it before and you saw it probably, but you're so busy and so many more emails come, and so I'm just bumping it. I don't know, is it the word "bumping?"

Leah: Is it that it sort of implies that "I'm doing this for you?"

Nick: Oh, "I'm doing you a favor as a courtesy to you so you don't have to look through your inbox."

Leah: As a courtesy to you, since you are obviously so overwhelmed that you can't handle your email capacity.

Nick: Oh, that's what it is, yes! "Because you are so incompetent, as a courtesy, I will do a favor and bring this to your attention again."

Leah: "I'm helping you out since you are inept."

Nick: That's—yes, this is what it is. Yes. This is what is maddening about this entire thing, because yeah, it's patronizing. And then I think, actually, what makes it maddening is that it's written in a way to attempt to not be patronizing, like, "Oh, just bump—oh, casually bumping this to the top of your inbox." I think that is insincere. And so it's that insincerity that I think really gets me.

Leah: How about if I sent—I sent an email, and I resent it or re forwarded it and I said, "I find you lacking. I'm resending since you didn't get to this as fast as I expected." [laughs]

Nick: On some level, I would really appreciate that.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah, I mean I would slow clap. Yeah, slow clap for that. Yeah. [laughs]No, I mean that would be so much more refreshing because yeah, the passive-aggressive, I mean, that's what it is. It's just like, oh you're just being passive-aggressive.

Leah: How would you like a person to say, "Can we touch base on this? It's been too long."

Nick: I think instead of, like, "Bumping it to the top of your inbox," I'd be like, "Hey, wanted to check in on this."

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: I would much prefer that.

Leah: Me too.

Nick: Because, like, oh, I'll scroll down and be like, "Oh, what are you talking about? Oh, it's that email which happens to also now be bumped to the top of my inbox." But just like, "Oh, wanted to follow up on this. Wanted to check in. When is a convenient time to regroup on this?" Any of these things would probably be okay.

Leah: Yeah, I like those too.

Nick: But yeah, the bumping. I feel like let's agree, audience, let's not use this phrase. Let's never bump something to the top of anybody's inbox. Can we just agree? Let's have a pact.

Leah: [laughs] And if then somebody emails us bumping us to the top of the inbox, we can reply, "Please don't."

Nick: Uh, I feel like I would ignore it.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I would not feel obligated to reply to that because it's already in my inbox. Or perhaps I already decided I'm not gonna reply to you, which often actually I feel like is what is happening. Often these emails are like marketing solicitations or sort of spammy type things.

Leah: Oh, I think so too. Anytime I'm getting a bump, except for that one person that we've already discussed twice ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: ... it's things that we're not going to get replied to.

Nick: Yes. And so if you bump something to the top of my inbox and it's not something I want to reply to, then you actually just get blocked. Then we just add your email address to a block list, and then you can't bump to the top of my inbox again. So sorry about it.

Leah: You bumped. Nick blocks.

Nick: Yep, that's it. Yeah, sometimes things have consequences.

Leah: I bump, you block. I feel like that's a song. "I bump up, I bump, you block, you block."

Nick: Uh, if it's not, I think that's our next hit single.

Leah: Oh, what a ringtone!

Nick: So the other things on my list which just feel so quaint in comparison: "Per my last email," "Friendly reminder."

Leah: I feel like, "Per my last email," sometimes you just—I get why sometimes people say it, because you're just trying to be like, "Last time we talked about this," you know?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it's hard to do, "Per my last email," without sounding like, "Um, per the last email, clearly you don't remember that or have forgotten, or now I have to remind you of the thing we already agreed about."

Leah: I always go "RE: Our convo," because I feel like that's casual. Because sometimes I'm just being like, "I'm responding to this thing, and then I'm responding to this thing, and then I'm responding to that thing." So it's like "RE: Our convo: blah blah blah blah. And then here's blah blah blah blah, and then here's blah blah blah blah blah." That's why I have flexibility in those those terms right there.

Nick: Yeah, that's fair. And then there's, "At your earliest convenience," which, hmm, how do we feel about this?"

Leah: I always feel very mixed emotions on this one because I don't know what that means. Is it when I have time? Because what it feels like you're actually saying to me is, "Get this done now, unless you're in a dire situation."

Nick: Yeah, there is something about that phrase in which it does not sound like it's actually about my convenience at all.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah, it feels like it's actually the opposite of that.

Nick: Because, like, you have gone out of your way to put a deadline on this. Like, the deadline is "at my convenience," but you've gone out of your way to specify a time frame.

Leah: My earliest.

Nick: Oh, yes. The earliest convenience. Yes, not the latest convenience.

Leah: Yes. Not my latest convenience. Not at the end of the spectrum of when it was convenient and towards the end.

Nick: Right.

Leah: At the first moment it was convenient.

Nick: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So there is a sense of prioritization involved. Right. Yeah, so there is something about that. But if you really want it done sooner then, like, would you just tell me, like, what the deadline is?

Leah: "Can you get this back to me as soon as possible. It's due by tomorrow." That just is much clearer to me.

Nick: Yeah. Or it is sort of implied in any email request that, like, you do want the person to do it. Like, otherwise, why am I emailing you a request to do something if I don't want you to actually do it? So, like, built into the request is the inherent expectation that you're gonna actually get it done. So the idea of, like, oh, at your convenience, whenever it's convenient, like, unless there's actually something about the request that to the receiver sounds more urgent than it really is. And I think when that happens, I think it's fine to say, like, "At your convenience, comma, please let me know about this thing."

Leah: That's so much clearer!

Nick: And somehow, like, "At your convenience," is, like, maybe less than, like, "At your earliest convenience." Like it just—it's the "earliest" is the problem, I guess.

Leah: It's the earliest that's confusing.

Nick: I'm also just genuinely confused. Is this a rush or is this not a rush? Because obviously I was gonna do it. So now you're telling me ...

Nick: Right.

Leah: Is this a rush? I don't get it.

Nick: Yeah. No, just clarity. Clarity, people. Just be more clear.

Leah: How fun would it be if you actually emailed back, you're like, "Hey, I really don't understand. Is it my earliest convenience? Because, like, if it's convenient for me ..."

Nick: "Because it will never be convenient to do this."

Leah: "It's not convenient at all."

Nick: "Nothing about your request is convenient."

Leah: "So is like a month from now cool? Are you saying you need it now? Because I'm unsure."

Nick: "Yeah, let's get a deadline on this. Let's get an iCal event."

Leah: "Just give me a deadline."

Nick: Now the variation on this theme is when somebody says, "At my earliest convenience." And I see this in people's voicemails, which is like, "Oh, I'll return your call at my earliest convenience." Or in, like, auto replies, like vacation replies, like, "Oh, thank you for your email. I'll reply to your email at my earliest convenience when I'm back in the office." And it's like, at your earliest convenience? Well, that's rude!

Leah: Yeah, no thank you. You could just say, "Hey, I'm out of the office. I'll reply to it when I get back."

Nick: Yeah, but the idea of, like, oh, at my earliest convenience. And I don't know if they think that oh, it's the same sort of convenience structure that we use, and we're just sort of like changing who's convenience it is, but it's still the same level of politeness. But to me, that really changes the meaning.

Leah: It really does, because it sounds like I'm gonna prioritize what I think is the most important, and we'll see when we get to you. Like, just let me know that you're replying later. You can figure it out on your own. I don't need to ...

Nick: Yeah. "Oh, I'm out of the office between these dates. Thank you."

Leah: "Thank you." Or, "Hey, I'm not here. Leave a voicemail."

Nick: Yeah, also fine. So many choices.

Leah: I don't need to know that I'm getting put in levels of which came first, you know? I don't need to know that I'm being prioritized or deprioritized depending on what other things are happening.

Nick: No, it'll become very clear to me based on how long it takes you to actually get back to me. Like, I'll have the answer to that question real soon.

Leah: And also, if you're just out of town, let me know you're out of town with your auto reply.

Nick: Yes, it is important if you do go out of town and are not planning on replying to emails, that you let people know that, so that they don't have to bump it to the top of your inbox when you come back.

Leah: Or circle back. I'm not—I'm not circling back because I know you're gone.

Nick: Oh, you're not circling back? [laughs]

Leah: I think there's two ways to use circling back, and one of them is if you're like, "Hey, let's circle back to this in two months when ba ba ba ba."

Nick: Sure.

Leah: And I think that's just an easy way to say, "Let's deal with this later when we have more information." But if you're, like, "Circling back."

Yeah, "Circling back with all the stakeholders to get buy in to talk about our core competencies and our deliverables. And actually, let's take this offline."

Leah: "Let's take this offline." [laughs]

Nick: I love corporate jargon. [laughs]

Leah: I also—I think this is not a—this is not a phrase, but when somebody CCs in somebody who—they're clearly getting CCed in to, like ...

Nick: That's aggressive. Yeah.

Leah: That is aggressive!

Nick: Well yeah, there's the, "I'm gonna CC your colleague," and then there's the, "I'm gonna CC your boss."

Leah: "I'm gonna CC your boss."

Nick: Mm-hmm. Yes, CC is aggressive.

Leah: Aggressive because it's not just that you want them to see it, it's that you want the recipient to know I'm bringing other people in.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: To watch your incompetence.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, yeah, how else is there to—yeah, interpret that? Yeah.

Leah: I worked for a person, and they brought me into this meeting and wanted me to take the fall for something that was not my fault.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And I'll be wrong and apologize, but I'm not getting publicly blamed for something that I had actually done.

Nick: No.

Leah: So I just said, "Oh, let me go check!" And then so I went back to the computer, and I found the thing that showed that I did it, and I sent to them and I go, "Oh, just want to make sure you saw it." And I CCed everybody else that just saw me get yelled at, and ...

Nick: Okay. That feels like a totally legitimate use of the CC.

Leah: It was totally legitimate. The person who I did it to did not like it. And ...

Nick: Well, they shouldn't have been wrong. [laughs]

Leah: They should not have been wrong. You're welcome to be wrong, but do not blame it on me when you know—they knew they were wrong, and they wanted somebody to ...

Nick: Oh, they thought they could get away with it.

Leah: They thought they—and I was like, I may be polite, but I also don't like being wrong, so—when I've done the work. So that was one—a fine moment of emailing where I ...

Nick: Yeah. No, it's good to have receipts. It's definitely good to have receipts. Yeah.

Leah: That person actually yelled in my face.

Nick: Okay, so there was other issues involved with this.

Leah: After that email, they yelled in my face.

Nick: Oh, for sending the email?

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: "How dare you clarify that I was wrong?"

Leah: Yes.

Nick: "And let the people know that I yelled at you in front of that I was wrong and that you were not. I mean ..."

Leah: It was really unbelievable.

Nick: Yeah. You can't win with that kind of person, though.

Leah: No, you can just leave the job.

Nick: Yeah, so here we are. [laughs]

Leah: So here we are, a comic. Self-employed.

Nick: Just bumping things to people's inbox tops.

Leah: Just bumping things to the top of your inbox. And I'm CCing everybody who you told I didn't do it to.

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "Around two years ago, I introduced an acquaintance—let's call him Chad—to my hairdresser. The salon is quite small, seats two people and is fairly intimate—a boutique kind of place. Recently my hairdresser told me that some months ago Chad had come into the salon for a trim and a few highlights—a 60-minute job. However, once seated and with foils in place, Chad ordered Uber Eats and proceeded to eat a large chips (French fries) and a greasy, garlicky gyro wrap whilst seated in the salon waiting for his foils to be finished. My hairdresser was appalled. Fast forward to today, and my hairdresser messaged me to say that Chad had come in for a haircut a few minutes early and ordered a burrito. My hairdresser was mortified, and he went outside to compose himself and messaged me in shock. I have two questions: is it rude to eat in a hair salon? And two, would my hairdresser be rude for asking him to refrain from doing so?"

Leah: I love when you get questions that you think, "Wow, I never thought that we would have to put words as to why it's inappropriate to do that."

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, because I had not thought of this scenario before. Like, it did not occur to me to just eat a burrito while getting my hair cut. I didn't know that was an option.

Leah: Also, in a small boutique place that's like two seats, and you're gonna also bring in garlicky gyros? I mean, let's bring in all the smelly foods!

Nick: Although, I love that they're referred to as "chips." So this is definitely in a place in the world in which I guess we're having chips, not French fries.

Leah: What's going on?

Nick: What is going on? Yes. So I think we do agree that eating a gyro or a burrito while you're getting a haircut, yeah, I guess we're not doing that. That's not a thing we're doing. And so I guess the question is why? Let's just spell it out. Why is this not a thing we're doing?

Leah: I mean, we're at a person's job.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: Um, it smells.

Nick: The smell thing, I think is material.

Leah: Because I feel like if you were like, "Hey, this is my only break time, and I'm just gonna throw a power bar into my ..."

Nick: Right.

Leah: " ... down my gullet." It seems very different than a meal.

Nick: Well, it's the way one eats these things, too. These are handheld. You have to sort of shove them into your face. Like, that's sort of the mechanism.

Leah: Well, it's the whole thing you, like, have a—you're unwrapping and you're holding and there's, like, probably dripping and there's sauces.

Nick: So if this was sushi and I'm using chopsticks, would that be different?

Leah: No, there's still sauces and dips, and you're still holding it and you got your chopsticks.

Nick: What if it's canapés, finger food? Just a little endive with goat cheese? [laughs]

Leah: I think if you were like, "Hey, guys."

Nick: "Excuse me while I have some endive and goat cheese canapés."

Leah: "I speak some regular American English. So do you mind if I'm having, like, an endive with cheese on top of it?" Or is that—it barely smells because it's technically like a lettuce.

Nick: Right.

Leah: "Do you want some endives with cheese, or do you mind if I eat it real quick?" I don't know, how do you feel about that? It seems real—if somebody came in and was like, "Hey, I just have some canapés," I would probably laugh. I'd be like, "What's going on?"

Nick: Also, is there a difference in I'm actually actively having you work on my head or I'm, like, in the chair on the side, and I'm just, like, cooking with, like, foils in or I have, like, the thing on my head that, like, dries it, whatever that's called?

Leah: I feel like it's different.

Nick: It does feel like it's different. Like, it's slightly less inconvenient to your hairdresser.

Leah: Real weird if someone's cutting your hair and you're eating because A) you're not supposed to be moving your head.

Nick: Right. I don't even want to have gum, right? Like, I don't want to be doing anything where my jaw or anything is moving around while you got, like—although I usually have a very tight fade and, like, there's razors involved, so I don't need any disturbance happening.

Leah: I barely blink.

Nick: Right. And you're just, you know, trimming some edges.

Leah: And I'm just trimming some edges. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: But what if you'd already got your cut, or some people get their foil for—you're getting your foil. Let's say you're getting your foil, and you're in the corner. And then you have a non-smelling food. Is it different? I think maybe it is. And—but we would still ask permission. "Since I'm in the corner ..."

Nick: Well, since this is a boutique two-chair salon where I cannot escape you.

Leah: You cannot escape.

Nick: Then ...

Leah: But if—if you had your foils in and you wanted to have a power bar, I don't think I'm gonna feel any kind of way about it.

Nick: Yes. I feel like there is something in between, though, burrito and power bar.

Leah: And I would say that is ...

Nick: Endive canapés.

Leah: No, I would say there's something in between that, and I think it's like a brownie.

Nick: Okay. A cookie, a brownie, a handheld something. Yeah.

Leah: A handheld something that's like a baked good, so that's not like a garlic or a sauce.

Nick: Could I have a bagel and cream cheese?

Leah: That's what I was thinking next.

Nick: Right? I feel like I could have a bagel and cream cheese.

Leah: I feel like you could, too.

Nick: With permission. "Hey, do you mind if I have a bagel?"

Leah: "Do you mind if I have a bagel?"

Nick: I don't think I would want capers on it, though. I don't want anything rolling off.

Leah: I don't think we're having, like, a salmon and onion and capers.

Nick: Right. But okay, plain, plain bagel, cream cheese? There's a world in which that's fine. Yeah.

Leah: And I'm saying this as a person that loves salmon and onion and capers. I love that.

Nick: Oh, that's a great combo.

Leah: I would just eat it outside of the boutique.

Nick: But I don't even want to have coffee or a beverage when I'm getting my hair cut because, like, there's just, like, too much moving around and, like, it's just—yeah, this is not—we're not consuming things.

Leah: Also, I just don't want to get—you know, you're wearing their apron, there's stuff everywhere. I don't want to get my food juices on other people's stuff.

Nick: That's a good point. Yeah, the—the apron, the smock,tThat's really just for hair and stuff. That's not for ...

Leah: You getting crumbs on people's stuff? Now they got to wash it for tzatziki?

Nick: [laughs] So okay. So yeah, let's not do this. Also to order in food and have it delivered to the salon? That's also kind of an interesting move.

Leah: I wish we could have a little camera just to see, like, the food order come in and the hairdresser's face be like, "Oh. Oh, no!"

Nick: So the second part of this question is: can the hairdresser say something?

Leah: I mean, it's your business.

Nick: Yeah. I think you could say, like, "Hey, would it be possible to wait until we're done with our haircut?" Or would it be possible to—I mean, if they're just doing foils on the side, as a business owner, I guess you'd really have to decide how much it bothered you versus the business that they give you.

Leah: But I think if when you're cutting it, they're eating, I think you could be like, "Hey, this is unsafe."

Nick: Absolutely. Yes, I feel like if they're in the chair and you're working on their head, that's—yeah, that feels reasonable.

Leah: Yeah. But if they're on the side, I think that's your call as to whether ...

Nick: Right. How much that smell bothers you. And if they offered you any canapés.

Leah: Yeah. Are people offering to bring you a burrito?

Nick: Yeah, I guess that makes a difference.

Leah: Also, there's potentially another client there. We got multiple people all dealing with the smell.

Nick: Yeah. And now we have a two-room salon. And now there are at least three people in this room, and one of those people is eating a burrito. Yeah.

Leah: Everybody's smelling your lunch.

Nick: Yeah. Okay. Well, sorry that this is happening in the world. [laughs]

Leah: I just think it's so funny when things come in that—I said this at the beginning, but it's that—that's my main feeling where you're like, "Oh, okay."

Nick: Yeah. "Okay. Of course this is happening."

Leah: "Oh, for sure."

Nick: "Sure."

Leah: "Of course."

Nick: So our next question is quote, "If our good family friends ask us to go to a college football game with them and allow us to use a couple of their season tickets, should we offer to pay for those tickets?"

Leah: In your mind, is this a one-time thing they're offering? They're inviting you to the game for this one time? Or are they offering a couple of season tickets, like, for multiple games?

Nick: Well, I have some questions. The phrasing is very interesting here. It's not "offering tickets." It's "allow us to use a couple of their season tickets." So the question is: am I being invited as your guest to join you for the game? Or you have season tickets and you are going to "allow" us to use a couple of them. And then when you "allow" me to use your tickets, what does that mean?

Leah: Do we think that that person said, "I'm allowing you to use some of my season's tickets?"

Nick: What a weird way to say it then. I mean, what is that?

Leah: Yeah. If they specifically chose those words, I think I would—I would be too confused. Not confused. It's not confusion. It's I wouldn't like the phrasing of "allowing" me to use something, and I'd be like, "I'm good." [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. Well, you don't like people telling you what you can or can't do.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: So that's what—that's your problem with that.

Leah: Why?

Nick: "Oh, I'm 'allowed' to go to the game? Oh, thank you!" [laughs]

Leah: [laughs] Now that you pointed that out so clearly, um ...

Nick: But ...

Leah: I guess that's accurate, Nick. [laughs]

Nick: But the question is: is this an actual invitation or not? Are you inviting us to join you for the game or not? And so is that what it is? I think you could ask, like, "Hey, it would be fun to go to the game. How much are the tickets?" And then they could be like, "Oh, no, no, no, our treat." Or they could be like, "Oh, they're $1 billion—" or I don't know how much college football tickets are but, like, they are some dollar amount. And then you could be like, "Oh, thank you for offering. We can't, but thank you."

Leah: Yeah I—that's what I wrote. I would just say ask.

Nick: Yeah, just ask, just clarify. Because, like, what you don't want to do is, like, you accept the tickets and it turns out they do want money for them, and now, like, oh that's awkward.

Leah: Yeah, or you accept the tickets and you can't tell the entire time, so you're just sitting there being like, "Was I supposed to pay?" And then that's what you're thinking about. That's no fun either.

Nick: Right? Yeah. So I think we do want to clarify what is the guest-host relationship up top. Also, if you are being treated, then at the game it's very nice if you, like, buy them the beer, get them the lunch. You know, like, treat them to some something at the stadium as like, "Oh, thank you so much for letting us join you. Here's some popcorn."

Leah: And then as Nick said, if you are clarifying, "Oh, hey, how much are the tickets?" And then they say "X amount of dollars," and then you don't any longer want to go, it's fine to say no. Now that you've clarified, you have all the information you can say, "Oh, thank you so much, but unfortunately we can't."

Nick: Yeah. Oh, it's fine to decline. Yeah, you're not obligated to then buy them.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Although I could see how a lot of people might actually feel that obligation.

Leah: Oh, for sure, I would feel that. I get that entirely. That's why I was saying it. Like, if you don't understand if you're being invited or not, and then they explain to you, "No, you gotta pay," you can then be like, "Oh, then I'm not coming," but in a nice way.

Nick: I've actually never been to a college football game, and I would love to go. I feel like I want to do the whole tailgating thing and then, like, the whole game thing. Like ...

Leah: I feel like you're about to get some invites right after this episode airs.

Nick: No, I would love to go to—but it has to be like real college football. Like, it can't be like the Columbia Lions. Like it needs to be—sorry. Sorry, Columbia.

Leah: Ooh, sorry Columbia Lions!

Nick: Go Lions! Go Lions! But, like, that's not like Nebraska Huskers.

Leah: No college football is ...

Nick: Right. Like, that's—I want the real deal.

Leah: ... serious.

Nick: Yeah, I want—I want to wear a solid color of some sort. I want to be frozen in the parking lot. I want to go through all the football tailgating etiquette rules, like, you know, should you bring beer? Should you bring a seat? Should you bring your own cooler? Like, what are the rules? Oh, what an amuse bouche!

Leah: I also love going to something where I don't have a favorite team, like a college football. I don't follow college football, so I don't have a favorite team. So if I go with a friend—or hockey. I've been to—with my friends to hockey games. They have a team, and then I get to throw every ounce of enthusiasm I have, every exclamation point that's in my body into their team. And I have so much fun!

Nick: Yeah. No, there is something fun about, like, oh, I'm just gonna live vicariously through your team spirit.

Leah: Yeah, it's great.

Nick: So do you have a favorite college football team, or a question for us? Or a bonkers, an etiquette crime report, a vent, a repent? Oh, we'll take it all. So send it to us. Send it to us through our website WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently. Or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I'll vent.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: But also, do you want to go first? Because I always get to go first.

Nick: I'm happy to go first if you want me to go first.

Leah: I just want you to feel welcome to go first.

Nick: Oh, I—I will get it out eventually.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So it does not matter when, but I'm happy to kick it off. So for today, actually I'm gonna do two things.

Leah: Wow!

Nick: One is I am gonna repent because we are gonna do some accounting at some point, and I do want to make sure I at least have one in the bank. And so it's quick, though. So I'm walking down 23rd Street near Fifth Avenue, and a woman is coming towards me, and she has her phone sort of in her arms, and her light is on, the LED is on. And so I'm walking towards her, she's walking the other way, and I only have a split second to decide.

Leah: Like the flashlight?

Nick: Like the flashlight. Yeah, the little LED flashlight. And so I only have a split second to decide should I say something to this stranger, and if so, what? And how do I do it in a way that's, like, not startling? Because, like, in New York City, we're not interrupting strangers on the street. Like, that's weird because, like, it will take you a few seconds to process, like, somebody is talking to me and is getting my attention and for what reason? And we only have so much time. And so I'm—I'm thinking, like, maybe she knows it's on, maybe it's some medical thing, maybe it's some app that helps her navigate. Like, all these things are going in my head, and there's only maybe four seconds to have all of these thoughts.

Nick: And so I decide not to say anything. I decide, you know what? She'll probably figure it out when she looks at her phone again, and I don't want to disturb her. And I thought, I'm not gonna say anything. I do feel like I could have probably just like, "Hey, ma'am, your phone light's on," as I'm passing, not stopping. Just, like, wave briefly, catch your attention. Point to her phone. That's it. I feel like I probably should have done that. I think that would have been more courteous than not saying anything. So for that, I would like to repent.

Leah: Mmm, this definitely feels like you're just trying to throw a repent in there.

Nick: [laughs] Should I repent for that? Should I repent for not having enough things to repent about? Does that count too?

Leah: Also, I think it's great that you didn't say, "Hey ma'am—" you didn't say "Hey ma'am" to somebody because ...

Nick: Ma'am-ing someone is also aggressive. Yeah, I mean ...

Leah: You are not from the South, and you are not in the military, so ...

Nick: But, like ...

Leah: ... when you "ma'am" somebody ...

Nick: Miss? Hello? You there in the coat? I mean, what do you say?

Leah: I like, "You there in the coat!" [laughs]

Nick: Okay. Well, that's not the main event today. The main event is a vent.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And so I am on the subway and it's, like, rush hour. And I—I'm heading to, like, drinks and dinner with some friends down in the Village. And I am standing on the subway and somebody gets on and be like, "Oh, hey, Nick!" And this is, like, an acquaintance I've run into a few times at, like, some business networking events that I sometimes go to. I would remember his first name, but wouldn't really know much about him. But he says right out of the gate, "Hey, Nick. Oh, you look nice! Why you all dressed up?" And I was not particularly dressed up.

Leah: Hmm.

Nick: Hmm. And I was wearing jeans, and I remember exactly what I was wearing because oh, I did a lot of analysis on, like, what am I wearing right now? I was wearing sort of normal leather shoes, some jeans, a button-down Oxford. I had a blazer. Maybe the blazer was the twist, I don't know. It's New York City. Not super unusual. But then I was thinking, like, oh, he's comparing to how I looked before. And it's like, oh, the last time you ran into me at some event, what was I wearing then? Did I look like garbage? That's what I'm thinking.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Was I garbage before? Am I always garbage, and this is actually just some unusual event today? And so then I was thinking back to, like—I went back to my calendar and like, oh, what was the date of that event when I ran into this person and tried to piece together, like, what do I think I was wearing that day? And I did figure it out, and it was perfectly fine. But the idea, like, "Oh, you look nice. Why you dressed up?" really got me. Really got me.

Leah: There's so much I love here. I love that you—all of us, would be irritated by ...

Nick: It's irritating!

Leah: "Oh, you look nice." Basically, they're saying, "You look nice. What happened?" And you're like, "Ouch!" But I love that you're like, "You know what? I'm gonna go back through my calendar, find the date and figure out what I was wearing."

Nick: Yes.

Leah: That's a—that's the next level that is next.

Nick: And I also looked at the dates between when I had my last haircut and each encounter, like maybe that was a thing, and it was actually like only two or three days different. So, like, I feel like the hair was probably very similar. Yeah. No, there's no explanation for why I looked particularly okay that time compared to the garbage appearance I had previously. So ...

Leah: Did you say that? Because I feel like that could have just reset the whole conversation.

Nick: Well, I was caught off guard because I—when he said it to me, I, like, looked myself up and down. I was like, just remind myself like, oh, what did I leave the house wearing? And I was like, "Oh, I'm—I'm just going to dinner. This is what I'm wearing." I didn't know what—what do you say to that? Like, thank you? I guess, thank you.

Leah: I'd say thank you with a question mark. "Thank you?"

Nick: Right.

Leah: I think I would—hard for me not to say, "What did I look like last time?"

Nick: Yeah, I mean, I—well, I didn't want to engage with an acquaintance on the subway.

Leah: But we also just talked also about taking compliments, so I would just be like, "Thank you?"

Nick: Yeah. Well, I'm still working on it. So, you know, practice makes perfect. But yeah, I think we don't want to judge, comment on other people's appearance unless you know them well. And I think because this was an acquaintance, this is particularly problematic.

Leah: I don't know. You know, I love compliments, so I don't want to tell people not to compliment, which we've discussed before, but I think you could just be like, "You look great!"

Nick: Yes. Yes. The comparison to previous—yes. All of that was unnecessary.

Leah: It doesn't have to be like, "You look so much better than normal." That's—we don't need that.

Nick: "You look surprisingly okay today."

Leah: "You are not looking like trash. What's up? Did something happen?"

Nick: [laughs] Right. Yes. "Did you win a contest? Is this a glow up? Were you on a reality show? Is this a makeover?"

Leah: "Did somebody get involved?"

Nick: [laughs] Right. "Was there an intervention about your style and appearance?" Yeah, it feels like it was all of those things. So yeah, don't love it. It's a vent. And so, leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I'm gonna vent, but I just want to bring up something that somebody said to me on the subway once. A person got on the subway. I knew them—they were—they were sitting right across from me.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: They got on after me. They sat down. I was, like, doing a "Hey!" And then they looked at me, and then, you know, when people realize they're looking at you and you—you see their eyes change, they figure out who you are, and they go, "Oh, Leah!" I had my hair blown out. They were like, "I didn't recognize you with your hair blown out. You actually have a face," they said.

Nick: [gasps] [laughs]

Leah: And I was taken aback. I go, "What?" And they were like, "Oh, you're—I just usually see you and you're all hair." That's what they said. And I was like ...

Nick: Oh! Oh, that didn't get better.

Leah: ... I feel like—yeah, it didn't get better. And I knew they didn't mean it.

Nick: Well ...

Leah: They just mean, like, my hair is the predominant, and oh, underneath there ...

Nick: Underneath there, I thought you were Sasquatch, but turns out you're a woman.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I was like, "Wow!"

Nick: "Okay. Thank you so much."

Leah: That just reminded me of that. But my vent is this—I haven't done a vent like this, I don't think, but it's—I recently did a job. Everybody knows I'm—I'm self-employed, so it's a lot of 1099s or, you know, different—different ways of bill paying.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: And I did the job. The job was over. It was a contract, so there was a certain amount of time they were supposed to pay. Haven't paid, haven't followed up about not paying. I'm then chasing the person down.

Nick: Ugh, that's the worst!

Leah: Which I don't want to have to do. It's the worst. I did the job. There was no problem with the job. I covered my end. It's been all agreed. And then—then they finally get back after attempts of me trying to reach out to multiple people and say, "Oh, they had this problem at their office," and I want to say, "Hey, you just let people know if there's a problem."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: We just treat people like human beings, and if there's something going on, we don't make people chase us for money. That is so ...

Nick: That's the rudest thing. Yes, making people follow up to get you to pay what you owe? This is—this is the worst. You should never have to do this. Yeah, it's super rude.

Leah: And then to be like, "Oh, this was happening. That's why." Okay, well, if that's happening, you send me an email when you owed me the money, "Hey, this is happening. I'm gonna be able to fix in this amount of time," and then I say, "Okay, thanks for letting me know." Now I have a new date.

Nick: Yeah. "Oh, hey Leah, unfortunately, our office has a family of raccoons that have moved in to the payroll room, and so we're unable to get to our check stock, but we expect to get rid of the raccoons, you know, in the next month or so. So we're gonna keep you posted. So sorry about this delay."

Leah: "So sorry. And here's a picture of them on the typewriter. Aren't they cute? But definitely in the way of getting your check in the mail."

Nick: Right. Yes.

Leah: And I'd be like, "Okay, I get it. You're rehoming raccoons."

Nick: The radio silence means that they don't care or value your time.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: It does—and whether or not they mean to send that signal, just not paying people promptly sends the signal that you don't respect them.

Leah: Yes, that's exactly what it is. It's disrespectful. I shouldn't have to chase them.

Nick: You shouldn't have to do that, Leah.

Leah: And yeah, so rude!

Nick: Yes. In a perfect world, no one would ever have to follow up about a debt. You send the invoice, you send the request, and that should be the end of it.

Leah: And if what you are is anxious because this thing happened and you can't pay, then just let the person waiting know.

Nick: Communicate, yeah. Radio silence is totally unacceptable.

Leah: Just communicate! Ugh!

Nick: Well, hope you get paid soon.

Leah: I mean, we'll—I'll check back. Those raccoons are—I mean, we're—they're rehoming. They're not just ...

Nick: Oh yeah, that does take a while. Yeah. Well, sorry about the raccoons.

Leah: They have cute fingers.

Nick: Well, maybe they can write some checks.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah. Let the raccoons write the checks!

Nick: Let them take care of it! Yeah!

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned that you are so desperate to have a repent that you are going to now use 30-second decisions that were very brief and then still move into the vent anyway.

Nick: Okay. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do.

Leah: [laughs] Actually, I don't know if I learned that. I would have guessed that.

Nick: Yeah. I don't know if that was new information for you, but I'll take it. And you, Leah, I learned that you have not yet had a Napoleon.

Leah: That is correct.

Nick: And hopefully we're gonna fix this.

Leah: And I will be forking it sideways.

Nick: Great!

Leah: Right? I'm gonna flip it over on the side?

Nick: If required.

Leah: If required.

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we want your questions. Specifically, we want your travel questions, we want your food questions and we want your wedding questions. So if you have any questions on any of these topics, send them our way.

Leah: Can I add in that I would also like you to—if you have any questions that we would be like, "I can't even believe this is a question. Who would have thought this would happen?" Send those in, too.

Nick: I mean, we'll really take anything.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I mean, at the end of the day, we'll really take anything. So ...

Leah: We're available.

Nick: And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: So I would like to just thank this group of friends I have. You know, I travel a lot for comedy, and a lot of times it's sort of I'm just putting things together, and a lot of friends have housed me and let me stay with them in their apartments over the past year. And I just want to say thank you so much to Amber Gavin, Andre Desir, Katie Compa, Candi Claire and Kendra Cunningham for being such good friends and letting me move in with you.

Nick: Wow. Naming names!

Leah: They deserve it.

Nick: And for me, I want to say thank you to my friend Patrick. Patrick has been on a baking kick lately, and one of the highlights is when I will get a text on my phone from my building package system, which is like, "Bing! You have a delivery from Patrick." And I know in this delivery is some baked good. And these show up at random times, and it is such a treat to know that, like, oh, just downstairs is gonna be something amazing. So thank you Patrick. Keep that baking coming. I really appreciate it.

Leah: That's so fun.

Nick: Oh, it's delightful!