Crossing the Equator, Going Apple Picking, Deciphering Bathroom Signs, and More

Nick: Do you yank apples off trees? Do you tell someone they look like their mother? Do you make your bathroom signs intentionally vague? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Ooh, amuse me! Amuse me!

Nick: So for today's amuse bouche, I want to take you into the ocean. Let's get nautical!

Leah: Oh, I love getting nautical!

Nick: So the first question I have for you, Leah, is are you a polliwog or a shellback?

Leah: I'm a polliwog.

Nick: Okay. And do you know what these things are, or are you just guessing?

Leah: I'm guessing.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So file this amuse bouche under things that exist in the world, and this is not likely to come up for either of us, I don't think. It's very remote, but it's just like, isn't it good to know about things that exist in the world?

Leah: It is!

Nick: And so Leah, have you ever crossed the equator on a boat?

Leah: No.

Nick: Okay, yeah.

Leah: You know how you're like, "Did I do this at some point and I forgot?" No, I have not.

Nick: No. Yes, I have not done it either. I've done it by airplane, but yes, never on the seas. And so there is this thing that exists called the "Crossing the Line Ceremony." And it goes by other names, the "Shellback Ritual," the "Shellback Ceremony." But basically, the line is the equator, and polliwogs are people who have never done it, and then the shellbacks are people who have gone through this initiation.

Leah: So I am a polliwog!

Nick: You are a polliwog. I am a polliwog. I think most of us are polliwogs.

Leah: I love polliwogs.

Nick: And this goes by other names, like, polliwogs are sometimes called "slimy polliwogs," or "slimy wogs," or I think the Australian navy, they call it "tadpoles." And then yeah, shellbacks sometimes are called "trusty shellbacks" or "honorable shellbacks." Or even sometimes the "Sons of Neptune."

Leah: Oh!

Nick: Quite grand!

Leah: I tip my hat.

Nick: And so this is a very old naval tradition. Like, this is going back hundreds and hundreds of years. And even during World War II, the US Navy did it. Like, even during wartime, the US Navy even still, like, had these ceremonies whenever a ship crossed. And it's not even just an American thing. Like, other navies do it. And I saw a video of a private yacht, like, they did it, like, on this private yacht when they were crossing. And I even saw a video of a Royal Caribbean cruise ship going from Sydney to Hawaii, and they did it during that cruise. And so, like, it's happening.

Leah: That's so fun!

Nick: Right? So there are a lot of different ways the ceremony is done, and it's changed over the years. And it used to be very rough. I mean, it was basically hazing. I mean, it was, like, a lot, like, what was happening in these ceremonies. And in the 1980s, the US Navy was like, "Enough. None of this. We're gonna put some rules." And so it is definitely significantly tamer. And, like, on that Royal Caribbean ship, like, oh, it was—I mean, it was delightful.

Leah: I was not imagining that they were hazing people on the Royal Caribbean.

Nick: [laughs] They were not. But the idea is basically just that sailing is dangerous, and you want to make sure that the God of the sea—Neptune or Poseidon—he's on your side. You want that. And so we need to do something for him. And so this has a lot of that flavor in it. And how it's done is very different on every ship, and even in the US Navy, there's not, like, some standard, like, manual version of this. Like, it really depends on the ship and what those traditions are.

Nick: But basically, there are some standard things that seem to happen. So, like, leading up to the crossing of the line, there might be, like, a mock mutiny that the polliwogs stage on, like, Polliwog Day. So this happens sometimes. And then the night before, there might be, like, a talent show and other festivities, and then what those other festivities are is often very vague. Like, I wasn't able to learn more about that. But, like, festivities. There were festivities. And then there's often gonna be the same cast of characters that show up, no matter, like, who's doing the ceremony.

Nick: And so the night before, there's gonna be Davy Jones of, like, Davy Jones' locker fame.

Leah: Oh, Davy Jones' Locker!

Nick: Exactly. There's gonna be—like, Neptune has a queen or maybe like, some sort of consort, and so she shows up. And then there's something called the royal baby, and so that's part of this crew. And then all the people who are on the ship who are already shellbacks, they also dress up as part of, like, Neptune's court. And think of this like Halloween, but you only had the things available to you on your ship or your submarine. So, like, very DIY.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Like, what costumes could you make using just materials on your ship? So there's, like, a lot of tinfoil hats. There's, like, a lot of things with mops. There's a lot of things with, like, extra fabric. So it's pretty—it's definitely colorful. And so then what happens is Davy Jones is going to subpoena all of the Polliwogs.

Leah: Whoo!

Nick: And charge them with some sort of crime. So the crime could be very specific, like, "Oh, Leah, you are charged with making bad nautical puns." Or it could just be like, "You are charged with not being worthy of crossing into Neptune's realm. You are a landlubber, and so you must defend yourself." And so there will be a subpoena. Sometimes some ships actually have very ornate, decorated documents that you're given.

Leah: Oh, wow!

Nick: The shellbacks spend a lot of time, like, planning these ceremonies. Like, there's a lot of care that goes into these. And then the next day, the day you're crossing the line, King Neptune shows up, and he holds court. There's often gonna be a throne. There's, like, maybe a beard made out of some material, or there's some box of wigs and beards on board of navy ships. I don't know. But basically, he holds court, and then there's, like, a mock trial and grandiose speeches, and then the polliwogs have to basically prove themselves.

Nick: And so this is the part that's been very dialed back. And so it could be just, like, crawling around in old garbage. It could be drinking coffee made with seawater. It could be, like, having weird buzz cuts on your head that you have to keep for a couple days. You have to kiss the stomach of the royal baby. This comes up a lot in these ceremonies. There's often gonna be something with water: sprayed with hoses, dunking. There's definitely some water element that's happening. And then when it's done, you get a certificate saying, you are now a shellback, and you are now initiated into the ancient mysteries of the deep.

Leah: Wow!

Nick: Right? Who knew?

Leah: Who knew?

Nick: Who knew all this was going down?

Leah: I had no idea. I'm thrilled about it. I would love to do one, and I do hope that I would be charged with making too many nautical puns, and then I would have to defend myself that I should actually be making more.

Nick: And there's also variations on this, like the emerald shellback. That's somebody that crossed the equator at the prime meridian.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: So zero and zero, which is, like, off of Africa. And there's the golden shellback. That's somebody who crossed the equator at the 180th meridian. So those are, like, special certificates you can get.

Leah: I wonder if there's somebody out there collecting. "I have the regular shellback. I have the golden shellback. I have the emerald shellback."

Nick: I mean, I think if you serve long enough, you probably do cross all of these points at some point.

Leah: You must, right? How thrilling!

Nick: You must, right? And what's interesting, like the Royal Caribbean video I mentioned, they do a lot of these same things. Like, they march members of the crew who had never crossed before into the pool area to the Imperial March Theme from Star Wars.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So that's what happened. And then the MC made all the passengers boo them, like, "Boo, polliwogs!" And then the captain of the ship and senior officers showed up, and then they had a mock trial, and they made the crew, the polliwogs, go into this little kiddie pool, and then they brought out whole fish, which I guess from the restaurant they have whole fish. And then they made the polliwogs kiss the fish. That was, like, their challenge. And then they got splashed with some water, and then they got their certificates. Yeah.

Leah: Wow!

Nick: Right? [laughs]

Leah: Wow.

Nick: So crossing the line.

Leah: Crossing the line.

Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and in the trees.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about apple picking.

Leah: Which is just so funny to me because I think growing up in a place where there are just apple trees, one doesn't necessarily think of it as an event. You just think, "I'm gonna go pick some apples."

Nick: Yeah. Growing up, we did not, like, go somewhere for apple picking. We had, like, some apple trees in the backyard. So, like, if you wanted an apple, like, you would go pick it. Yeah. It was not a weekend event. Yeah, there were not hay bale rides. Yeah. There wasn't a corn maze.

Leah: But I did notice, espec—particularly in New York, a lot of my girlfriends would be like, "I want to do weekend apple picking!" So it is, like, a thing.

Nick: And I think with the advent of Instagram and related social media sites, the visuals of apple picking are quite photogenic.

Leah: Oh, it's so autumnal.

Nick: This is part of it. Like, it's not about the apples at all.

Leah: Although it should be about the apples, because you can make some delicious apple creations.

Nick: Yeah? Okay. Such as?

Leah: I love an applesauce.

Nick: [laughs] Okay, keep going.

Leah: I love an applesauce. I love an apple pie. I love an apple crumble.

Nick: No, I mean, there's lots one can do with apples. And so there is definitely etiquette, because this is something that involves leaving your house and interacting with other people. And so therefore yeah, there's some etiquette involved. So the big one is to be respectful of the place you're going. I think that's key. Like, let's not waste the apples. Let's pick the apples properly. Let's not pick more than we plan to use. Let's not drop them on the ground.

Leah: I was going to say, not only do we need to be respectful of the people, let's be respectful to the trees, because they have feelings, too. And we don't need to be just abusing them.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's very Shel Silverstein. Yes.

Leah: Heart wrenching.

Nick: I know, I know. I mean, it's—even as an adult today, I mean, it really gets you.

Leah: It really gets—somebody just had a picture of it on something the other day, and I was like, "Ah!"

Nick: Triggered.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's really—it's—how is it a children's book?

Leah: Well, you gotta learn it at some point, Nick. [laughs]

Nick: That's true. That's true. So be respectful of the trees. Yes. And with picking, there is a technique to it, and if you've never done it properly, you should ask them how to do it. But basically, you don't want to yank it off the tree because you might actually, like, jostle the whole branch and other apples will fall. We don't want that. And if you do it in the wrong way, you might actually accidentally rip off one of the buds that becomes an apple next year. And so, like, you don't want that to happen.

Nick: And so the idea is you want to grab the apple gently, because you don't want to dent it or bruise it with your fingers, and then you want to actually roll the apple up so that it forces the stem to snap off the branch and stay on the apple. You want the little stem thing to not actually get removed from the apple, because when you do that, the apples don't store as well. So you want a little stem still attached to your apple.

Leah: It's also very picturesque, the little stem.

Nick: There's also that.

Leah: Maybe one leaf. Also, let's just not go throwing them on the ground if it's not the apple that we want. It's very hurtful.

Nick: Yes. Super wasteful. And I think the rule is you should pay for what you pick. So if you picked it or you caused it to be removed from the tree, ideally you take responsibility for that apple.

Leah: Also, imagine how that apple feels just being thrown to the ground.

Nick: You are really anthropomorphizing those apples today. Yeah. What about the rest of us?

Leah: I honestly am worried about everything and everybody's feelings all the time, Nick, so don't even worry. You're in there, too. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] And the only other thing on my list is, like, follow the rules. Like, all of these places have very detailed rules, and they're gonna be different, but just whatever those are, like, follow them. So if they're like, "Don't ride in our wagons," or like, "Don't bring your pets," or like, "Please keep an eye on your kids," then, like, please do those things.

Leah: Yeah. And obviously, if something falls out of your pocket or you're, like, eating a candy bar, there is no trash. We are not littering.

Nick: Why are we eating candy bars in an apple orchard? That just seems ...

Leah: Nick, I don't know why people do the things they do. I'm just throwing it out. Think of it as a carry in-carry out situation is what I'm saying.

Nick: Yes, that is—yeah, that's true. And then can I say something controversial yet brave?

Leah: Please!

Nick: Apple cider donuts? I think these are so overrated.

Leah: Oh, wow! Okay.

Nick: Yeah, I said it. I said it.

Leah: I'm gonna be straight up with you. I've never had one.

Nick: Really?

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: There must be a gluten-free version of this.

Leah: Well, even before I—I didn't know why my stomach was constantly upset, I had never had one, because why would I get any doughnut that wasn't chocolate?

Nick: Yeah. No, that's totally fair. No, the apple cider donut—and I'm prepared to take some heat for this—apple's not a very strong flavor, especially in donut form. So it's not giving me apple. It's giving me cinnamon and nutmeg. But now it's a cinnamon and nutmeg donut. And is that what I want? Not necessarily.

Leah: Somebody's gonna get in touch with you. Maybe the nutmeg people? I'm not sure.

Nick: I can handle it. I think actually, a lot of people agree with me, but are just afraid.

Leah: Because the're afraid. Oh, I just thought of a hot apple cider on a fall day. That is lovely.

Nick: Yeah. No, there is a place for this. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm not anti-apple cider. I just feel like, in donuts, it's just, like, not the place for that.

Leah: No, we hear you. We hear you.

Nick: [laughs] Thank you. So yeah, this is just some thoughts. Apple picking? Enjoy it out there.

Leah: Also, it's a great place for puns. So we got some kind of apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I mean, we could do a lot of—maybe is there ...

Nick: Well, certainly there's the gravity of the situation.

Leah: Ooh!

Nick: See what I did there?

Leah: Zing, zing, zing, zing zing, zing, zing!

Nick: Yeah. Little Isaac Newton for you.

Leah: Very nice!

Nick: I'm catching on.

Leah: I'm delighted.

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question came from a friend of mine who texted me basically in real time. And oh, this is wonderful. And so what I thought, Leah, if you would read my friend's side of the text, and then I'll be me.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And then we'll take it from there.

Leah: Do you want me to read the original text?

Nick: Yes. Yes.

Leah: Okay, here we go.

Nick: I'm ready.

Leah: "OMG! I was at a party tonight, and I saw a picture of a woman dressed up for her cousin's wedding. And I honestly said, 'OMG. Is that your mother?' Thinking she looked good. And it was the woman I was talking to. I had to leave."

Nick: And so then I write back, "Etiquette crime."

Leah: [laughs] How do you recover from that?

Nick: You crawl into a hole and die.

Leah: It's impossible. You just die and leave immediately.

Nick: In what world was that ever gonna go well?

Leah: I'm a horrible person, and I need to say 10 Hail Marys.

Nick: Minimum.

Leah: This is the worst thing I've ever said to anyone ever.

Nick: I'm not sure if that's true, but definitely top 10.

Leah: For context, we were talking about her sister's big wedding, and she showed us pics of her cousin's wedding. And she was all dressed up without glasses and a lot of makeup and looked nothing like she usually looks in person, which was a hipper, younger, New York City version of herself.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: But I still died. And I was like, "I gotta go."

Nick: Yup, she'll be talking about this for years. And you just put her therapist's kids through college.

Leah: And this was after I introduced myself, and she was like, "Yeah, we've met before." Oh, I'm just winning tonight. I can't wait for you to find a way to incorporate it into your podcast just to see Leah's reaction.

Nick: Way ahead of you.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So that was our text exchange.

Leah: I love that I get to be them.

Nick: So Leah, what do you think? What do we make of this? What is your reaction?

Leah: Well, the thing is, is that as I am him, I've already—you know what I mean? I've felt all the feelings. I felt all the feelings. Because you know when you just say something and then you're like, "Oh, why did I say that?" And it was a compliment. You thought your mom was looking great. Your mom looks great! But then no matter—you can't come back from it because you were like, "Well, you actually look so much better normally. I thought your mother was better." What, are you gonna say that?

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, assuming always gets you into trouble. I mean, assuming really is the source of a lot of etiquette problems. You know, like, assuming somebody's pregnant. This is a very classic example. Like, we don't wanna do that. Assuming somebody is their mother in a photo. Not great. Not great.

Leah: That's why I just try really hard never to say anything.

Nick: So I think better—I think if we could rewind here, something better to say would be like, "Oh, what a great photo. Tell me more about it." And then sort of, like, invite the conversation. Or, like, "Oh, tell me more about this day." Or, like, "Who are all these people in this photo?" If there was, like, other people in the photo.

Leah: I think we just go, "Great photo!"

Nick: Yeah. No, could leave it there. Yeah, that works. But now that we've said the thing, other than, like, crawling in a hole and dying, which is on the table, you know, that's definitely an option, what else could we do here?

Leah: I feel like there's nothing you can do because when you explain it, it gets worse.

Nick: I mean, it doesn't get better, but I was thinking you could say something along the lines of, like, "Oh, golly. It's so dim in here. That'll teach me to not wear my glasses." Assuming that I'm not wearing my glasses. [laughs]

Leah: I mean, you could also just say, "I got confused because you didn't have your glasses on. Obviously, both—both women are gorgeous. We have two gorgeous women. I thought your mom was exactly the same age as you. Just glasses-less."

Nick: Or I guess like, "Oh, goodness. I clearly didn't get a good look." And then we just pivot real hard to a new topic. But I mean, it doesn't help that, like, all this happened after you introduce yourself to this person and they're like, "Oh, no. We've met before."

Leah: Yeah. I mean, it feels like a sinking ship, to be honest.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's an etiquette hole. Yeah, it's definitely an etiquette black hole. We've passed the event horizon.

Leah: And I've already had to play this character, so I already—I'm already this character, so I can't then fix myself.

Nick: So do we actually have no advice for my friend here? It's just like, oh, sorry, this was terrible.

Leah: The next time we see this person, we could say, "Oh, my. I'm still thinking about it."

Nick: Oh, we want to bring up?

Leah: This is something I would—if you think that person's forgot ...

Nick: They'll never forget. But do we need to, like, rehash it?

Leah: I bring things up because that way it's off the table. I go, "I'm still thinking about it." I just think ...

Nick: It's not off the table. You're putting it back on the table. You went back to the buffet, and you got yourself another helping.

Leah: No, it's out of my brain. I've apologized.

Nick: Okay, so if we see this person again—I don't think you'll be invited to their home in the future, but if you are, for some reason, then you want to bring it up, like, "Oh, golly. Remember the last time I thought you were your mother in a photo? Sorry again." Is that the idea?

Leah: I've said it. I'm thinking about it. I mean, the only other option is to just move along.

Nick: I kind of go with the move along. Yeah, I kind of go with the move along. I mean, assuming you apologize in the moment, like, "Oh, so sorry. My mistake."

Leah: Well, I don't see an apology here.

Nick: Yeah, I don't know if that happened. I think some things we just pretend it never happened. I think this might be one of those. And we have to make sure we never do it again. So, like, when we meet this person again, we cannot be like, "Oh, nice to meet you." Like, that can't happen.

Leah: No, that cannot happen.

Nick: And then certainly no questions or comments about photography.

Leah: We just throw out compliments is what we do next time.

Nick: I like that instinct, but I feel like if you overdo it, then it's like, oh, this is too much.

Leah: No, just like a medium regular.

Nick: Like, "Oh, you look so nice in person." [laughs]

Leah: Yeah, just like that too. I think that would really ...

Nick: That's the right intonation. Yeah.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah, I think if you could just say it exactly like that. I mean, it's already happened.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. We can't unring that bell.

Leah: So if we can't bring it up and apologize again, then there's nothing to do but move on and make sure we don't do it again.

Nick: Well, and I think for some etiquette crimes, that is the best we can do. Yeah. So maybe that's what it is here.

Leah: But I think in the future, if we do something again, we just apologize right away." Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry. And, I mean, when people have face accouterments on, it really throws a person off. So glasses-no glasses really threw me. My bad. Both women are gorgeous. They're both you. Ah, I'm silly!"

Nick: Yeah. Effusive apology in the moment. That's the move. Yes. Okay. Well, there you go, friend. That's what you should do.

Leah: Oh, and I was really—I'm delighted I got to play you because that was really an emotional role. I feel like this often. This is often a thing I feel.

Nick: You've met this person in real life.

Leah: No, I know.

Nick: Okay. [laughs] Oh, so you really—that's why this was so method.

Leah: Yeah, I felt it was very method. Yes?

Nick: Okay, great. So our next question is, quote ...

Leah: I will say, as somebody—really quickly, as somebody who says things that are wrong often, I fall on the sword immediately.

Nick: Yes. That's ...

Leah: I feel like the only way to deal with it ...

Nick: Yes.

Leah: ... is to immediately apologize and then, "Ah!" blame yourself. I am ridiculous. And then move on.

Nick: Yes. Oh, I definitely misspeak or I make mistakes all the time. Yeah. No, it's definitely a regular occurrence in my life. But yes, quick apology. Like, don't hesitate. And be sincere about it. Like, "Oh, I'm so sorry that—not my intent to do whatever just happened. Like, really sorry."

Leah: It's just if you don't take care of it in the moment, then you're just gonna think about it.

Nick: Yeah. No, it is important to nip it in the bud. And in general, etiquette things do not get better the longer they age. It is not a wine. So you gotta just end it quickly.

Leah: Oof!

Nick: Okay. So our next question is quote, "My father enjoys a particular whiskey, so for his birthday, I gifted him the largest bottle available. My sister gifted him the same whiskey, but in a smaller-size bottle. This didn't bother my dad and I didn't feel any way in particular, but my sister's wife grew visibly red and its clear she was embarrassed, and now I feel bad about it. I said nothing at the time, hoping not to draw attention to something that was being experienced as embarrassing. But is there something I should have said to ease any discomfort?"

Leah: I call this question "Southern Discomfort."

Nick: [laughs] Oh, wow. On a pun roll today.

Leah: Whiskey pun.

Nick: Is that a pun or just a nice turn of phrase?

Leah: I think that's a turn of phrase, not a pun.

Nick: Right. Okay, so I can't hold that against you in my tally this episode.

Leah: You can still hold it against me, Nick.

Nick: No, I mean, I will. It'll just be in a different category of things I will hold against you.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. I'm picturing you gifting, like, this jeroboam of whiskey. And then the other gift was this little hotel mini bar size. This is what I'm picturing.

Leah: That's the fun version. That's the fun, visual version of the story. I'm sure that's not it, though. It's probably just, like, one of those huge ...

Nick: One liter and 750 milliliters. Yes.

Leah: There's nothing that you should have said at all.

Nick: No, this is not your problem. Nothing is broken here.

Leah: Nothing is broken. And they shouldn't even be—different sizes. It's still the same whiskey. It's something that the dad loves.

Nick: Yeah. And if anybody wanted to say something, it would be the dad in the story.

Leah: And he's happy.

Nick: I'm sure he's thrilled. Yes. So I think there is that instinct, though, like, "Oh, something is embarrassing, and I need to fix this situation, even if I did not contribute to this embarrassment, other than just, like, buying a gift that happened to be the same thing." But, like, it's not up to you to solve this.

Leah: And also, it would make it worse.

Nick: It would definitely make it worse. Oh, because what would you say?

Leah: What would you say?

Nick: "Oh, how adorable. I didn't know it came in that size."

Leah: Or "It's what's inside that counts." I mean, it's not gonna go well.

Nick: I mean, I guess you could say, "Oh, I guess we all know dad's taste," and just talk about the fact that it's the same gift, not that it's different sizes.

Leah: Yeah. But I think the gift itself says that. Like, that's why dad's happy. He's like, "Everybody gets me!"

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "Yay!"

Nick: Yeah. So that's the end of the story.

Leah: What's better than whiskey? More whiskey.

Nick: Put that on a pillow. Actually, I bet that's already a pillow.

Leah: I'm sure that's a pillow.

Nick: [laughs] If it's not a pillow, then that's a real missed opportunity.

Leah: That's a real—we would do it, except for nobody here drinks whiskey.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's not my beverage. Yeah, definitely not your beverage.

Leah: Definitely not my beverage. Huge water drinker over here.

Nick: Yeah. And if it's not gin or Jannamaro, I don't know. Not usually my go to.

Leah: I just think there's nothing to say, and there's nothing for this person to be embarrassed about. Like, it doesn't matter what size. It's the thought. You got your dad—your father-in-law what they loved.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, because otherwise the implication is, like, "Oh, you shouldn't have bought, like, the bigger size." And it's like, well, that wasn't deliberate. I mean, if they think you did this deliberately, like, oh, you knew that they bought this gift in that size, and you went out of your way to buy the same thing, but in a bigger size in some sort of, like, one upsmanship way, well, then, okay. Yeah, that's a little provocative. I kind of—I like the move on some level. Like, it's a bold move.

Leah: But also, nobody thinks—nobody even would have thought of that except for Nick.

Nick: Oh, I bet a good chunk of our audience was thinking that.

Leah: No, that is not what that person thought. That's not what they were turning red.

Nick: No, no, no. It's just like, "Oh, we didn't get him the big size. Maybe we should have gotten him the big size. I didn't know the big size was an option."

Leah: And also, we don't know what happened. Maybe the couple had a fight where they were like, "I wanna get the big size." And the wife was like, "No, it's too much." And then ...

Nick: Oh, we're just gonna get the regular size.

Leah: That's between them. This has nothing to do with you.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, what happened in that BevMo? Not your problem. Not your problem. So thank you for sending these great questions. And you out there, do you have any questions for us? Oh, yes, you do! Oh, yes, you do! So send them to us through our website WereYouRaisedByWolves.com, or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently. Or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I'm gonna vent.

Nick: Okay. All right, let's hear it.

Leah: This is a regular occurring thing, but it happened to me this week to a point where I was like, this must stop. This has to be a thing that we end.

Nick: Okay. Oh, I'm on board.

Leah: Let me preface this by telling a little story.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I used to teach self defense for—to young girls.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And so when I was getting my training, one of our first activities was we split up into groups of two, and one person went all the way down to the other side of the room. And then—so there was probably 15 of us in a line and we were not allowed to look left or right. We just had to look forward. And the instructor said, "Walk up to the person where it's an appropriate distance to stand from them."

Nick: Hmm.

Leah: "And do not look at your neighbors to see where they're going." So we all walked up and then they said, "Look left and right." We all stood at the exact same distance.

Nick: Interesting. Okay.

Leah: And this, I want to preface, is very much a cultural thing. This is like ...

Nick: Oh, sure. Yeah. Personal space is very different around the world.

Leah: Yes. So this is—we all know where we should be.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: I believe it's the same with driving.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: I'm sure that there's legally a specific amount.

Nick: Yes, a certain number of car lengths. Yeah.

Leah: Let me tell you, especially in LA, where there's so many stoplights. So, like, I always wait. You don't want to block the box or you don't want to block the thing. That car is waiting, and then also guesstimating based on how much space is in front of them on the other side. So if that car in front of you just drives across and then randomly stops, like, three car lengths away, a car length away, what are you doing? You drive up behind the next car, the appropriate amount of space, and then they just sit there on their phone while people are getting backed up. Like, with no—like, pull forward.

Leah: Obviously, you're not driving onto the car in front of you. You're pulling up the appropriate amount. We got backed up on this bridge where there was, like, multiple people turning because this one car, who was, of course, in front of me had pulled up, not pulled up the amount they were supposed to, left all of this space. Like, I could have driven a boat across the equator between it. Let me just do a callback there. We all could have become shellbacks in this. And then the people going the other direction couldn't cross, and this person is just sitting there on their phone. I can see them through their thing. Stop it!

Nick: Yeah. No, there's quite a few crimes at play here. Being on your phone. I mean, that's a big one. Because you're not ...

Leah: I mean, that's—I think also illegal. But it's like, be aware of other people. Like, we have to work as a group here.

Nick: It is a team sport. Yes. It is a team sport. Yeah.

Leah: You can't just stop wherever you want. You actually have to pull up.

Nick: Yeah. And you would think it's in everybody's best interest, including that car's interest, to actually, like, do that. Because then they can go where they're going.

Leah: Yes. What are you doing? What are you doing?

Nick: It's a good question. Yeah. No, it's a good question.

Leah: I want to get out of my car and go, "What are you doing?"

Nick: Oh, don't do that, please.

Leah: Of course I'm not going to because I know better. But it's like, also, do not—I don't honk. I'm not getting involved in honking situations unless it's like a, you're in danger or you don't see me. But, like, people behind me are honking, and they're just like, "Do be do be do be do." And then you're like, "Not me! Not me!"

Nick: I don't know how we fix this, Leah. I don't know how we fix this.

Leah: Obviously, our listeners know because they're paying attention to other people. But if we as a group just sort of are out there as, like, a network, like a—like we're actually a net, and we're just, like, slowly being like, "You need to move forward. There are other people!"

Nick: Be the change you wanna see in the world, Leah. So I guess just model good behavior.

Leah: Be the change you wanna see in the world. And in the same—in the same thing. I also don't need you to pull up onto the back of my car. I mean, obviously that's why I told this story about the walking forward. You know where you're supposed to stop.

Nick: Appropriate distance. Well for me, I would also like to vent. And so this is not an American problem. I have observed this all around the world now, and this has to end. This has to end. And so I was recently in Milan, and so Leah, I just sent you two photos.

Leah: Oh.

Nick: And so ...

Leah: Let me turn my phone back on.

Nick: And so I'm in a restaurant, and I go into the restroom area, and the question is: which room is for men and which is for women? And just a preface. This is not about what bathrooms you have or which ones you should use. I am just interested in clear signage about what you have decided as an establishment these bathrooms are. That's what I'm looking for. Clear signage. And this is not just like, oh, using an abbreviation in the language of the country I'm in. No, I can handle caballero and mujeres if I'm in Mexico. Like, I can handle an 'M' for mujeres. Not a problem. It's when the symbols are so vague on the door that you have no idea what is what, and you can only tell what it is in relationship to the other symbol. So, like, you have to see Sonny with Cher to know which is which. But in this restaurant in Milan, there are two stripes on doors. Leah, describe what you see.

Leah: I'm just laughing because I was, like, looking through my photos, thinking I was gonna get something that was somewhere near similar to a bathroom sign, and then I realized that this is what it is.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I was like, are you kidding me?

Nick: [laughs] Is this not vague? Is this not vague?

Leah: Whatever is the next word from vague.

Nick: It's gestural. It's just sort of like a suggestion of a line.

Leah: I'm telling you, I could guess.

Nick: You can guess in context if you see both of them.

Leah: Yes. As you were saying.

Nick: And so what do you see? Describe it.

Leah: So A) they're lovely. I would say they're like—what is it? Like, an iron art or ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Metal? Is this a metal?

Nick: There's some metal element. Yeah. Yeah. And they're mounted on the doors.

Leah: And it is a rectangle. And on the first one there's, like, a little ...

Nick: It's a long line about four feet long.

Leah: With what I would consider a heart murmur in the middle of it.

Nick: Yeah. There's like a little jiggle, like, a third of the way down.

Leah: It's like a vertical heart monitor. And then the other one, in context to the second one, I would get it.

Nick: Right.

Leah: But if I just saw it by itself, I'd go, "What?" This one has a heart monitor going one way and then halfway down more like a hill.

Nick: Right.

Leah: Where the other one's like a straight up—it's got more like a—like a gentle slope.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And then maybe a foot at the bottom. I'm not sure.

Nick: [laughs] Right. And so this has to stop. And this is going on globally, where the signs are getting cuter and cuter and vaguer and vaguer and just—I just need clear instructions. Just which is which. And it can be in the local language. No problem. I'll take a Chinese character for men and women. I mean, I can handle that. But it's when it's just like this vague thing, and then you have to see both together. And often these rooms are not necessarily side by side. And what is the most perverse is the places that tend to do this are the most dimly lit. This type of thing is not happening in brightly-lit establishments.

Leah: This is not happening at Cheesecake Factory.

Nick: Right. Yeah, Cheesecake Factory, I'm pretty sure very clear signage. Right.

Leah: And it's not like these are like anybody-can-use-them bathrooms, like—you know what I mean?

Nick: Yes. No, this is definitely not like all gender. Right.

Leah: Yeah. This is like we're making a specific choice, but we're not gonna straight out tell you which one it is. It's just so funny when you see the pictures, because I really thought ...

Nick: I'll post them in the show notes so you can see.

Leah: I really thought—and it's funny once you realize what they're doing.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's quite clever at the end of the day.

Leah: It's quite clever if they were right next to each other.

Nick: So please stop this. Please just have clear signage because, like, this is not the place I need to second guess myself. Like, of all the places in the world, I don't want the bathroom to be that place.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned about this whole crossing-the-equator ritual, which is very exciting—polliwogs and shellbacks. And I love it. And I love that they do the whole dressing up as Neptune, and what a good time.

Nick: Yeah, it's a whole thing.

Leah: I love whole things.

Nick: And I learned that you're really into applesauce.

Leah: I am. Yeah. There was a time in my life where it was just—I was so deep into applesauce. Now that I look back, I think, "What was going on? But I just couldn't stop making applesauce. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Wow! Sounds like a very interesting chapter in your memoirs.

Leah: That would be a fun chapter. "The applesauces."

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery, if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, take a week off. I know all of our listeners do their homework diligently every week, and so no homework for you this week. I mean, if you wanted to, like, text a link to our show to a few friends, like, totally optional. Like, happy if you want to do that, but, like, that's not your homework. So, like, enjoy the week off, and then we'll pick it up next time.

Leah: Wow!

Nick: I'm feeling very generous today.

Leah: Super generous. And sort of like, there's, like, an extra credit, which, you know, I ...

Nick: Yes. Oh, yes. If you want extra credit from Professor Nick, then that's how you earn it.

Leah: So is there a week off? We don't know, but it feels—it almost felt like summer.

Nick: And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: I really have so many people that I'm grateful for right now that it's hard to sort of narrow it down.

Nick: Well, then do a blanket.

Leah: I just feel very grateful for all the people in my life who are just very lovely and supportive and friendly and just wow, I lucked out!

Nick: Okay. And for me, I want to read a nice review we just got, and it's quote, "I'm writing to confess that yours is the only podcast I listen to, and I now howl when Leah does."

Leah: Oh?

Nick: "Yes, I do howl right along with her. It's so satisfying."

Leah: Oh, my goodness. I wish you could see my face because I'm blushing and I am so thrilled.

Nick: Leah's blushing.

Leah: I'm so thrilled!

Nick: Yes, I think it is sort of funny that people howl with you.

Leah: I love it! I love it!

Nick: What do people do along with me? Does anybody do anything when I say something?

Leah: I'm pretty sure that people know the intro.

Nick: That's true. Okay.

Leah: And so they do it with you.

Nick: I would hope so. I mean, it's not a howl. I mean, it's not a howl. I love that I'm getting jealous and I'm trying to take this away from you.

Leah: I know, but also, you did not want me to howl in the beginning. You were like—and then there had to be a bring back the howl hashtag.

Nick: That's true. Oh yeah, there was the bring back the howl campaign.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Yeah, there was. Oh, to think I wanted to crush your dream.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Wow, how far we've come. Well, thank you for this lovely, lovely email.

Leah: Thank you so much!

Nick: It really makes our day to see that. And so yeah, keep howling along with Leah, and if there's some catchphrase I say, I could use some validation too, you guys. So send me an email.

Leah: [laughs] I have so many fun catchphrases that I actually say in my life, and I know they're Nickisms.

Nick: Yeah. Well, I just want the validation for it. So send it. Send it to me.

Leah: I'm gonna start writing it down and then I'll text you, "Guess what I just said?"

Nick: Thank you. Yeah. No, I really need that. Yeah. Well, thank you, everybody.

Leah: Thank you so much!