Bailing on Bad Accommodations, Attending Virtual Housewarmings, Moving Meetings "Up," and More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go! Our first question is quote, "What is the proper etiquette when your deli order is a little more than you bargained for? When I order at the deli counter, I order by number of slices rather than weight. This helps me to properly strategize my sandwiches for the week. On my most recent visit, I ordered my 12 slices of turkey. This is usually about $8-9. However, I think I underestimated both the size of the turkey and the thickness at which they were slicing it. It came to be about $18 worth of turkey. I would have felt terrible saying it was too much after they sliced it, so I took it, and now I am fully committed to a very turkeylicious week. In hindsight, I should have been more specific, but if this happens again, would it be bad etiquette to decline or alter the order after it is placed and sliced?"

Leah: I just wanna say unrelated to the actual question ...

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: I love the word "turkeylicious."

Nick: Turkeylicious is great. I mean, I don't mind a turkeylicious week.

Leah: And after I read this, I have been singing it to the dogs.

Nick: In what way?

Leah: Because they love turkey.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I go, "I'm turkeylicious!"

Nick: Oh! Ooh, very sultry.

Leah: Or I go, "It's turkeylicious!"

Nick: [laughs] Okay. All right. Well, we are inspired by this letter.

Leah: So thank you, letter-writer. My dogs now have a whole new song. I mean, it's much longer than that, but I know how Nick feels about my long songs.

Nick: No, that was just enough of a taste for me. So what should we do? Should we feel bad about this? What do we do in the future?

Leah: I think in the future—I think you did the right thing. You'd ordered the turkey, it came out.

Nick: And you're like, "I'm gonna just take it."

Leah: "I'm just gonna take it." I think in the future you could say, "Hey, I would like to get 12 slices of turkey, and the slices, like, around $10 worth."

Nick: Yeah, I think we want to have a two-part request. One is, like, the number of slices we want and then the weight of those slices. Or, like, the number of slices we want and the dollar amount. We just need two data points, not just one.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I guess that would be it. Although I guess is it rude to be like, "Oh, I actually don't want all the things you just sliced. I don't want to take all of it." How do we feel about that?

Leah: I mean, how I feel about it is I would just take it. I don't know if it's rude or not, but I would just take it.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, on some levels, like, oh, I don't want more than I need, but then it's sort of like, if it's turkey, would I want somebody else's turkey that was, like, sliced a couple hours ago?

Leah: Already sliced?

Nick: Yeah. I kind of don't want that, right? So I guess the question is is this like a high-volume item? Is someone very quickly going to take the extra slices from me?

Leah: Me personally, if I didn't catch it in the middle, like, see that they were making thick slices? You know how they throw it on the scale.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then you can see it happening. If I didn't catch it in the middle, I'd be like, "I'm just gonna let it go."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, jumping in would have been good if you could have, but I mean, if they had their back to you and you didn't know.

Leah: Oh, there's tons of reasons you don't see it. But I'm saying if I didn't, then I wouldn't—I would just let it go. Even though quite possibly it's not rude, but I would feel uncomfortable doing it.

Nick: Yeah, I'm gonna take the turkey. And are there any other deli items where—I feel like if it was a pasta salad, we could scoop it back into the bowl, right?

Leah: Yes. Anything that can get scooped back, I think is ...

Nick: Right?

Leah: Unscoop it.

Nick: Turkey slices, you can't unring that bell.

Leah: You can't unslice that turkey.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I hope that in the future when our wonderful letter-writer orders turkey and they say, "Hey, I'd like 12 slices, like, around $12 worth," and then I would just go, "Turkeylicious!"

Nick: [laughs] That may be my new ringtone. I just want you to know.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: I feel like when you call me now or you text me, I want your voice to say "turkeylicious" in that incredibly sultry way. Turkeylicious!

Leah: I mean, I'll do it for Lacey and Greta.

Nick: Yeah. So do it for everybody.

Leah: So then I feel like I should share with everyone.

Nick: Yeah. Don't keep this gift to yourself.

Leah: And we have our letter-writer to thank for it.

Nick: So our next question is quote, "I recently went to a seminar and combined it with a friend visit. I asked the friend if it was possible to stay with her, and she excitedly said yes. It had been five years since I last saw her—she only had a one year old child then. Now she has two children, a five and a six year old. So when I arrived to their house after my flight, I was informed that they had asked their six year old if he wanted to give up his room for auntie and—surprise, surprise—he did not. And just for the record, If I was six and asked the same question, I would say no as well. I was thinking, who asks a six year old that question? But what do I know? I don't have kids.

Nick: "But no worries, they had me set up in the basement with a twin mattress on the basement floor that their six year old used when he was three. I was in shock! I didn't know what to say, and I was too tired to say anything. I was to stay with them for the next three nights. And I really love this friend and I was afraid to offend her or hurt her, and so I stayed the second night. Yes, stayed a second night trying to figure out what to say. I feel she should have told me ahead of time that this would be the arrangement, since last time I had a big girl bed in a real room, and then let me decide whether or not to stay with them. I did tell her after the second night I would be staying closer to the seminar venue as we would be finishing late. So what could I have said or done on the first night that would not have come off as rude or ungrateful? I did check with my husband to make sure I wasn't overreacting. And when I sent him a picture of the quote-unquote 'accommodations,' he asked me if I was being taken hostage and that I needed to get a hotel room."

Leah: I feel like if it was me, I would stay that first night.

Nick: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't bail then.

Leah: You can't bail the first night, because I feel like they say, "What would I say the first night?" I think you gotta stay the first night.

Nick: Right. And then?

Leah: And then well, you said you needed to be closer to the ...

Nick: Well, the excuse that we're giving is that we need to be closer because we're gonna be running late on I guess the third night. So that's the excuse. Whether or not that's really true, I mean, who can say?

Leah: I mean, I think I would just be sort of honest with my friend. "Really appreciate you having me. I can't sleep on—I'm sort of uncomfortable sleeping on the floor," or whatever it is. Like, I can't sleep on the floor. My back would—I wouldn't walk again. That's not true. I sleep in my dog bed. So let me say that again.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I think there's a nice way to find a way to be honest with your friend.

Nick: Okay, so we want honesty. Interesting. I guess my first question was: Is it reasonable to expect the same accommodations as previously? Because our letter-writer does have the expectation that, like, oh, of course I'm gonna have another guest room to myself. And I guess, is that a reasonable expectation given that, like, oh, my friend now has two kids, and I don't think they've moved to a new house. So, like, oh, how do we think that's gonna go? And so in the conversation around, "Oh, I'm gonna be in your town at this seminar, and maybe I can say with you. What are the accommodations like these days?" Maybe there was an opportunity to learn more about what was on offer before we, like, got too far in deep.

Leah: Well, my guess is what happened is that the friend was just really excited to see you. And they were like, "Definitely!"

Nick: Yeah. And I don't wanna blame the victim here, but I think there was an opportunity to try and clarify the accommodations is my point.

Leah: I also do think, though, it feels weird to be like, "Hey, I'd love to stay with you. Exactly what is my—exactly what do I get? Do I get breakfast?"

Nick: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. "What are the thread counts?" Yeah. So that's fair. So okay, we are on day two, and I guess one question is: Can we tough it out? Like, is this so bad that we just cannot do it and we have to leave? I mean, she toughed it out for two nights. Like, can we just not tough it out for another night on some level?

Leah: I mean, I think the question is are you physically—like, if I was in a situation where, like, something hurt my back really bad, I just wouldn't be able to do it.

Nick: Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. And I guess this is that horrible, and it's a mattress just on the floor of the basement. Yeah, it does seem a little hostage-y. Okay, so we have to say something. Yeah, I guess the idea is, like, "Thank you so much for the hospitality, the bed." Oh, gosh!

Leah: Yeah. It's hard.

Nick: Well, because you want to do it in a way that isn't a judgment or comment on your host.

Leah: Yeah, you don't want to be insulting in any way.

Nick: Right? Like, "Oh, you have horrible accommodations, and clearly you don't care about the comfort of your guests. And so you should have told me that before I showed up. But here we are, and so you forced me to go to a hotel." So we don't want that to be what we say.

Leah: Well. And also, they're doing you a favor. They're giving you a free place to stay when you have to be in town.

Nick: Yeah. Well, there's no such thing as a, I guess, free lunch, right?

Leah: I mean, there is a free lunch. You're just gonna have to eat it on the floor.

Nick: [laughs] Right! Yeah. Okay, fair enough.

Leah: I spend the night at a lot of people's houses.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I'm always ready for anything.

Nick: Good. Yeah.

Leah: Am I gonna sleep on the floor? Am I going to sleep in a dog bed? Am I going to sleep on the couch?

Nick: Yeah. Are we gonna crate you for the night?

Leah: Are you gonna crate me? I'll make it work.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: You're giving me a free place to stay. If I'm physically uncomfortable ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: ... I will be like, "Hey, I gotta—" I don't like lying.

Nick: No. Yeah, I don't think we want to, like, lie-lie.

Leah: We don't want to lie to our friends. But it's also like, we—I think I need, like, privacy this last night and sleep on a bed. But I would find a nice way to say that. "Thank you for having me. I so wanted to catch up. This has been great. I gotta go be near work."

Nick: Yeah. Which is, I guess, what they did. Yeah, they just blamed work. They blamed the seminar. They blamed proximity, and that was their way out. And I guess one idea before we get to that is is there a way we can make these accommodations still work? So, like, was the issue that this was a mattress on the floor? Was this an issue that we were in the basement? Like, was there something about the basement? So maybe the conversation with the host is like, "Hey, last night didn't sleep great. I'm wondering, can I move to the couch upstairs? Or I'm wondering, like, can we move this mattress to a different room? Or, like, do you have a box spring available?" Like, maybe there's some conversation we could have with the host to try and make this work. Like, I don't want to leave your house. I like hanging out with you. We're good friends. So, like, can we make this palatable?

Leah: Yeah, I love that. I think that's a very good point. I think that I would be very comfortable saying to my friend, "Hey, that box spring or the mattress that I'm on is—sort of put my shoulder out a little bit. Do you mind if I just crash on your couch tonight?"

Nick: Yeah. And presumably there's a couch, right?

Leah: Yeah, there's a couch.

Nick: Yeah, there's a couch in this house. So yeah, I think maybe that's what we would do. And then we just know this for the future, that we are just not gonna stay with this friend in the future.

Leah: I do love that our letter-writer is asking, "How could I have gotten out on the first night?" And then we're coming down on, well, you could also stay all three.

Nick: [laughs] Well, is she asking to try and get out of there on the first night, or just wanted to know what to say after she toughed out the first night? Is she wanting the first night there?

Leah: Yeah, she said, "So what could I have said or done on the first night?"

Nick: Okay. Well, I mean, okay, let's answer that question then. I think you walk into the basement and you go, "Ha ha ha! Oh, funny. Oh, you! Oh, good one. Oh, that's a good one. Okay, so where am I actually sleeping tonight?"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Okay? This is an idea.

Leah: And then I think in the future we should just assume that we're gonna have to get our own hotel.

Nick: Yes. Rare is, like, the, "Oh, let me stay with you for a couple nights while I'm in town for work thing," and then, like, that is super comfortable.

Leah: Yeah. And then I would just say to my friend, "Hey, I'm gonna be in town. I'd love to see you. I'm staying in a hotel." And then they—then they could say, "Oh, stay with us." And then it's your opportunity to say, "Oh, I just really sort of need my own room because I'm—you know, I gotta go to work every day." And then they're gonna let you know whether or not you're getting your own room.

Nick: Oh, that's good! Yeah. Oh, that's very good. Like, "Oh, unfortunately, like, I need a mattress that's, like, not on the floor, so I just thought a hotel would be better." And they're like, "Oh, no, we have a mattress that's above the floor." Like, "Oh, really? Well, I kind of need, like, a door. Privacy." "Oh, we have that." Yeah. Okay. I mean, maybe that's how you kind of suss out whether or not you get a guest room or not.

Leah: Yeah. And that way you've already set something else up for yourself, and if your friend wants you to stay, you can say, "This is what I need to be able to, like, travel comfortably. And then they're gonna let you know whether or not that's something they could do.

Nick: Okay. All right, that's problem solved.

Leah: Woo! We got there.

Nick: We got there. Okay. So our next question is quote, "The other day I received a text from a coworker inviting me to her housewarming party. I was a little surprised by this because while we work together, I would consider us more acquaintances than friends, but I thought it was nice for her to include me. When I looked at the invitation, the first thing after the title was a list of gift cards accepted, including Walmart, Target, Amazon, Visa, and her Zelle and Cash App information. While I thought it was a little provocative to list accepted gifts on the invitation, I was considering attending until I read the next part. Quote, 'Due to limited parking, I will be hosting my housewarming virtually,' complete with a Zoom ID and passcode.

Nick: "I feel like this is an etiquette crime, or at the very least a misdemeanor, because I was always taught it was rude to put information about where someone is registered on invitations to things like bridal or baby showers, and I would think that would extend to housewarming parties as well. I also feel like having a housewarming virtually via Zoom defeats the purpose of hosting people in your new home. I would understand if she was moving somewhere further away, such as to the Island of the Inconsiderate, or if we did not regularly meet in person. But citing limited parking seems like an excuse to not have to put any effort into hosting. Combining this with listing accepted gifts that basically equate to cash on the card made this feel more like an invoice than an invitation. Does this warrant an etiquette investigation or am I being too sensitive?"

Leah: Provocative, indeed!

Nick: Well, I mean, there's limited parking, Leah, so I mean, this seems fine. So our next question is quote ...

Leah: [laughs] Also, shout out to our letter-writer: Island of the Inconsiderate.

Nick: Yes! Oh, that's fun. Yes. As you'll recall, we have been soliciting you guys to send in the names for the fictional island where we want to send all of the rude people. And so this is a great submission. Islands of the Inconsiderate. Love that. We'll add that to the list.

Leah: Love it!

Nick: So ...

Leah: I just thought it was gonna be the first part of the invitation where it was already rude that they were, like, "Come to my housewarming. Here are the gift certificates I will be accepting." That was already rude. And then as soon as I saw it was on Zoom, I was like—I literally, in my mind, closed the computer. I'm not coming to this.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I'm not coming to this Zoom, quote, "meeting." That's your open—what, are you gonna walk me around your house with the computer open and show me the rooms?

Nick: That was my question. Like, do I get a tour? Like, what's happening?

Leah: Am I getting a snack? Is there a canapé?

Nick: There's definitely not a canapé unless you make it.

Leah: I just can't—what is this person thinking?

Nick: Well also, you can register at Visa? I didn't know you could just, like, straight up just like, Visa gift card. I mean, that's just a debit card with preloaded money on it.

Leah: Yes, that's exactly what that is. "Feel free to get me money."

Nick: There's no fiction there. At least with Amazon, there's, like, some fiction that I'll buy goods with it. But, like, oh yeah, Visa. Like, oh, this is just cold, hard cash.

Leah: I'm going to set up a Zoom meeting and you're going to give me money.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: This is what this is.

Nick: And I like the idea that we're using the excuse of limited parking. Like, "Oh, the parking is just limited. So don't—don't trouble yourself. Actually, this is for your benefit."

Leah: Yes, for your benefit.

Nick: "This is a courtesy to you. I don't want to inconvenience you and make you circle around for parking. How thoughtful am I?"

Leah: Parallel parking's so hard!

Nick: [laughs] Also, I like that this is a coworker that we're not that close with.

Leah: It just feels like they're casting a big money net and they're like, "Who can I get cashola from?"

Nick: So to be clear, it is customary to bring a gift to a housewarming. However, one should never expect it. The host should not expect that guests will bring gifts. And that is why it is rude to list registry information on the invitation as our letter-writer identifies. That's not great. Yeah, don't do that. Don't put it on the invitation. And it is also why it is technically not done to put "No gifts, please" on an invitation, because that also implies that you were expecting gifts, but oh, don't worry about it. Please don't bring any gifts. And so we can talk about that another time. I know that's a controversial topic. I will stand behind that, though. But what do we do here?

Leah: I'm not going.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, I'm not going. No. Well, I'm going. I mean, going over to my computer.

Leah: I'm not going over my computer.

Nick: At two o'clock on a Sunday to log into Zoom.

Leah: I am unavailable to log in.

Nick: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, I don't feel the need to send a gift.

Leah: No!

Nick: I guess—I mean, I would send a card, but I probably don't have your address. You probably didn't put your address on the housewarming invitation, so I can't even, like, mail you a card.

Leah: I think I would text back, "Thank you so much for inviting me. Unfortunately, I'm unable to make it. Happy housewarming."

Nick: Yeah. Perfect. Yes. Yes. And you could leave out all the part of, "Because this is a super rude invitation and I don't want to indulge this."

Leah: I also want to say as a person who genuinely has limited parking, it's like a real issue.

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: I've invited people over, and I say—I give them the addresses of the closest, most affordable parking garages.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: I also give them the address of the streets where there is residential street parking.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I say, "I'd love to have you. Here's where the residents—" because we do not have street parking on our street. It's all permit and then it's, you know, Hollywood Boulevard. So I say, "Here's where the—if you can walk from there." And then I say, "Here is the two parking garages. If you go there, tell me. I will Venmo you for that."

Nick: Oh, aren't you a nice host?

Leah: Because I'm inviting you to my home. I want you to come visit me. You're making the trip. I want to provide that for you.

Nick: Yes, because you actually want guests in your house, and you want to entertain, as opposed to this person who just wants your money.

Leah: Oh, this person. Upsetting!

Nick: Yeah, it's really gross. So to answer the question: Am I being too sensitive? Nope.

Leah: Nope.

Nick: [laughs] So that is that.

Leah: You know what I think, Nick?

Nick: Hmm?

Leah: And I now realize this is, like, the third thing. We had the Costco signage which would be, like, for everybody.

Nick: And as a reminder, that's like, oh, how to line up in front of cashiers. Is it one line? Is it two lines? What are the rules?

Leah: What are the rules?

Nick: Right.

Leah: And then it was single-use soaps.

Nick: Ah, right. Yeah.

Leah: Remember, like, the little thing so it doesn't come in plastic, but also it could just be singles. So everybody ...

Nick: Sure. Everybody wins.

Leah: And our new thing, our third thing should be—because this seems—this is really a theme we have where people wonder, am I too sensitive?

Nick: Ah.

Leah: So we get some sort of a maybe like a button they could press or like a—it's just like an audio clip of us going, "Am I being too sensitive?" No.

Nick: No. [laughs] Okay. Oh, we can provide that. Sure.

Leah: You know what I mean? It's just us positively affirming people that it's not them.

Nick: It's not you. It never is. It never will be you.

Leah: It's not you, for sure.

Nick: If you are listening to our show, it will never be you.

Leah: It's not you.

Nick: It won't be. It just—it just can't be. It's just not possible if you are a listener of this show for it to ever be you.

Leah: That'd be a great—this is a great button.

Nick: It's a great button. It's a lot of—it's a lot to put on a button. It's a big button, but we could make it very small typeface.

Leah: No, I mean like a button like you press.

Nick: Oh, it's audio. Oh, I'm thinking, like, a button that's, like, attached to my lapel.

Leah: Oh, like on your shirt? So you can look at it and be like ...

Nick: Yeah. And it says on the button, like, "It is not me. It will never be me. I listen to this podcast, and because I am a listener, I will never be too sensitive. It is you." All that on a button.

Leah: I like—I like both buttons.

Nick: Yeah. No, I think we need that. Well, I think our next thing also may be one of our things. And it is quote, "My husband and I frequently host gatherings and meals in our home. Most of the time we provide all the food and drinks. Occasionally people will offer to bring sides and such. Frequently my mother-in-law will offer to bring something, but then comes to our home to prepare it. Most recently, she was offering to bring corn to our dinner party. She showed up with a frozen bag of corn, and needed to prepare it in our home. It became very crowded and difficult for my husband to finish preparing the beef short ribs with another cook in the kitchen. My mother-in-law is lovely, and I don't want to come across as ungrateful. Is there an appropriate way to ask her—or others—to bring dishes that have already been prepared? Or is this a common practice, or do we just decline offers for others to bring things?"

Leah: I mean, you know, my mother-in-law rule.

Nick: Yeah, I think that definitely applies here. Yes. So for our listeners ...

Leah: MIL rule is if it's—whoever's mother it is, is the person who talks to them about it.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, you gotta defer to the child of whose parent is involved. Yeah. Yeah, I think this is a great rule.

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: Yeah. No, the Bonnema rule, I think it's a—it's a good one. And is this common? This is so common. This is shockingly common. This should be one of our things. One of our things should be" Do not go to people's houses with food that needs to be prepared in their kitchen without asking them. Don't do that. Why are we doing this? Don't do that.

Leah: Yeah, don't do it.

Nick: Don't do that. I mean, it never fails. Every Thanksgiving we get tons of letters from people which is like, "I'm hosting Thanksgiving, and somebody came to my house and, like, needed to put something in the oven. And there's a turkey in my oven right now, so I cannot take the turkey out for your brownies or your casserole or your whatever. Like, why are you bringing unfinished things to my house?" Like, let's just stop this. We need to end this madness.

Leah: I do understand people will be like, "This is already cooked. I just need to warm it up."

Nick: Um, I think we still need to ask permission from the host.

Leah: No, we still need to ask permission. We still absolutely need to ask permission.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So that was what I wrote down that for the mother-in-law, hubs has to talk to.

Nick: Yep.

Leah: And then for that, I think we could send out—when we invite people, we say, "If you have something that needs to be heated up, can you let us know in advance because we'll be still using the kitchen to cook."

Nick: Okay.

Leah: "And I just want to time it out." And then you can have—you've opened it up for people to say, "Oh, I was gonna bake this here." And then you go, "Could you actually do that at home? Because we have the turkey in the oven."

Nick: Okay. Yeah, because it does sound like we were surprised by the corn.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: We didn't know corn was coming.

Leah: We didn't know corn was coming.

Nick: We did not know about the corn. It was surprise corn.

Leah: So I think we have to assume that people are not following the rules.

Nick: Which is do not do this. [laughs]

Leah: Don't do it. And then, you know, somebody shows up with mashed potatoes. It would be nice if they heated it up. We like a warm mashed potato.

Nick: Yeah, I don't want cold mashed potatoes.

Leah: Just let us know. Yeah. So but we got—it's gotta be planned.

Nick: Right.

Leah: So we throw out, "If you have something that needs to be heated up, please let us know so we can plan this out." And then somebody go, "Oh, I actually was gonna bake this whole thing." And that's when you say, "That's not gonna work out."

Nick: Yeah. I was gonna make croquembouche. So is that cool?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Now what if it's something that doesn't need to be heated up, but I'm making a fruit salad and then I'm bringing all the uncut fruit to your house?

Leah: No, you're not.

Nick: So we have to be more specific with what we're telling people. Like, if you have something that needs to be prepared in our kitchen.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: If you have something that's not ready to serve from your car.

Leah: Let us know.

Nick: Let us know so we can coordinate.

Leah: Coordinate.

Nick: Mmm. Okay.

Leah: Who's in the kitchen.

Nick: Yes. What is happening and when. Okay, I think that's good. Right.

Leah: And that way we've opened the dialogue.

Nick: Yeah, we need a dialogue with some of these people. Now another idea is we just steer the mother-in-law in a better direction. "Please bring bread. Please bring beverages. Please bring a bag of ice. Like, please bring things that do not require you being in our kitchen."

Leah: I also like that idea very much.

Nick: Yeah. I think one of these two directions. But yeah, people, let's stop bringing things to other people's kitchens, and then commandeering their kitchens. And they don't want that.

Leah: And I've had people say, "Oh, I'm bringing this over. It will need to be—" they just told me right away, and I knew it was coming, so I planned for it.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Okay. That's all I need.

Nick: Yeah. I think hosts don't want surprises. At the end of the day, don't surprise your host. You know, they have enough variables to worry about, and so if you could just not, like, throw another thing at them, I think that's appreciated.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Yeah. Okay. So our next question is quote, "Someone just told me that they'd like to move our meeting up an hour. I've always been confused by what 'up an hour' means. If we're supposed to meet at 10:30, does that mean that time goes up to a higher hour, and therefore 11:30? Or does that mean we're supposed to go up the day planner list view to 9:30? I also get confused by pushing things back a week. Does that mean they will happen a week before they were supposed to, pushing it backward in time, or a week after?"

Leah: Do you want me to say what I think it is?

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, please.

Leah: I also—when I get an email where I'm not a hundred percent sure what they're—which way they're moving it.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: I'll say, "So blank? Correct?"

Nick: Yeah. Always good to clarify.

Leah: But I think always—you know, I like to be double, double confirmed.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: That way I don't have to get anxious about it. So I would say if a meeting is getting moved up, it's going from 10:00 am to 9:00 am.

Nick: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Leah: And that if I'm pushing something a week back, it's going further away from me.

Nick: That's true. Yeah. And I think the confusion is that we are using distance words for time. And I think this is kind of the issue. But yes, I think most people do think about time on, like, a day planner, a calendar.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Where 9:00 am is at the top, 9:00 pm is at the bottom. And so with that geometry, up is earlier in time, down is later in the day. And then yeah, back is farther away from you into the future.

Leah: Into the future.

Nick: Yeah. So I think that's, like, what that is, right?

Leah: And I think this is a great question, because so many things we just throw around in regular conversation, and we've never had somebody just be like, "This is for sure what this means."

Nick: I think this is for sure what this means. Yeah. And I think if we wanted to be precise and clear when we're asking to move something, instead of saying, like, "Oh, can we push this?" or, "Can we move this up?" you could say, like, "Could we move this earlier," or, "Could we move this sooner?

Leah: Or we could say, "Can we move this up to 9:00 am?

Nick: Or we can be more specific. Or "Can we move it up sooner? Can we move it up earlier?" I think we need to just normalize using the words "earlier" and "later," and then that would just solve this problem.

Leah: I mean, is this another thing for our list?

Nick: Oh, maybe this is another thing for our list. Yeah. Yeah, we're done with up, and we're done with back.

Leah: Earlier and later.

Nick: Yeah. Sooner and later. Earlier and later. Yeah. These—these words, I think everybody understands what earlier is. Later.

Leah: But I think that pushed back the meeting to next week.

Nick: Yes, but I mean, "push back the meeting" in my mind, in no way is that moving it up earlier.

Leah: But they asked.

Nick: Yeah, they did ask. Yeah.

Leah: Because what I do is I like to visualize me. I'm standing in front of the meeting. The meeting is a box. I am pushing it, a now it's going down that calendar.

Nick: Yeah. Further away from you. Into the future.

Leah: I'm pushing it into the future.

Nick: But I guess the question is: Are there people in the world who are using these words and meaning the opposite?

Leah: I think they might, just because they got it mixed up.

Nick: Right.

Leah: Because it is visually confusing.

Nick: Okay. So yes, to confirm, "up" means earlier, "back" means later.

Leah: Boom!

Nick: Boom! So thank you for this great question. And you out there, do you have questions about time, distance or anything else? Let us know.

Leah: Triangles?

Nick: Triangles. Yes. We will answer all of your trigonometry questions right here, so send them to us on our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!